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How does C.I and E.C.T affect the Gospel?

Yes, the Bible calls God’s final judgment of the wicked an ‘everlasting fire’ or by most translations an ‘eternal fire”. I think either English word translated from the Greek word there is fine for our purposes. I’m not sure (though I have a suspicion) why the KJV and NKJV translate the same word once as everlasting and once as eternal, but either way is fine by me. Annihilationism does recognize the wicked’s final judgment/punishment is just as everlasting/eternal as the saved’s eternal life is going to be.
However, what the annihilationist also recognizes is that God’s eternal/everlasting fire is also (and not to be overlooked) a consuming fire. One that burns up the wicked. AND (most importantly), we don’t just come up with this idea out of thin air. It’s Scripturally taught (in my opinion) via the following passages: (please note that any/all ECT poster is welcome to address any of these passages listed below as I wouldn’t want to be taking any out of context toward the final fate of the wicked.). My confusion is, I don’t think God intended for us to assume His eternal fire is not also a consuming fire.
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'Eternal' connotes a sense of timelessness; no beginning and no end. For instance God's word is eternal. It goes on forever. It doesn't pass away. So consider what Jesus said. Speaking of the punishment, Jesus said, 'there they will weep and gnash their teeth'. So there is a place where they will weep and gnash their teeth. Annihilation denies the truth of this statement. Once they are annihilated, their punishment would end. They would no longer be in a place of torment. Their weeping and gnashing of teeth would cease. Moreover it suggests there will be a time when the word of God is not true anymore; they won't be weeping and gnashing their teeth. And Jesus' statement that they will weep and gnash their teeth will become untrue.

The godless who don't believe in anything after death would love this to be true. If at some time they were annihilated, so what? But Jesus clarifies our understanding when he says they will be thrown into hell 'where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched'. Mark 9: 47,48
 
Doulos Iesou said:
Was the fire that consumed Sodom and Gomorrah symbolic? Because they're a direct example of those undergoing the punishment of Eternal fire. Doesn't seem symbolic to me.
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This should be readily apparently. Why you would use this example is beyond me. There is also hail in the Bible that turned to flames when it hit the ground. The point is the lake of fire is symbolic, NOT a physical place.
 
MarkT said:
'Eternal' connotes a sense of timelessness; no beginning and no end. For instance God's word is eternal. It goes on forever. It doesn't pass away. So consider what Jesus said. Speaking of the punishment, Jesus said, 'there they will weep and gnash their teeth'. So there is a place where they will weep and gnash their teeth. Annihilation denies the truth of this statement. Once they are annihilated, their punishment would end. They would no longer be in a place of torment. Their weeping and gnashing of teeth would cease. Moreover it suggests there will be a time when the word of God is not true anymore; they won't be weeping and gnashing their teeth. And Jesus' statement that they will weep and gnash their teeth will become untrue.

The godless who don't believe in anything after death would love this to be true. If at some time they were annihilated, so what? But Jesus clarifies our understanding when he says they will be thrown into hell 'where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched'. Mark 9: 47,48
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:goodpost
 
MarkT said:
' Jesus said, 'there they will weep and gnash their teeth'. So there is a place where they will weep and gnash their teeth. Annihilation denies the truth of this statement.
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Wrong. That's a balk. A missed call...
 
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reba said:
US poor umpires are always half wrong :shame You know chessman they have the dumb instant reply these days
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Yep. They're trying to get it right.

I'm an annihilationist and I don't deny gnashing of teeth.

What's that gameshow? Millionare?

Let's ask the annihilationist in the audience here...any of you deny gnashing of teeth?
 
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BTW, I listened to a discussion today of the history of the schism between the eastern and western church over the Trinity doctrine. Those guys literally came to blows at times.

It could be worse. Just sayin.


Stan1953 said:
This should be readily apparently. Why you would use this example is beyond me.
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We use it because the Bible tells us to:

2 Peter 2:6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;​
 
chessman said:
We use it because the Bible tells us to:
2 Peter 2:6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
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Again, out of context, because this verse is talking about "LIVES". Nothing about hell, nothing about spirits, just about condemnation of sinners.
 
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chessman said:
Yep. They're trying to get it right.

I'm an annihilationist and I don't deny gnashing of teeth.

What's that gameshow? Millionare?

Let's ask the annihilationist in the audience here...any of you deny gnashing of teeth?
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Definitely gnashing and apparently some weeping etc too.

Lock in gnashing :D
 
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Stan1953 said:
I Kings 18 agua
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Ah yes ta. It's funny after using Bible software for so long I don't have a good memory of Bible verses anymore. I should work on that.

digging said:
Hello Agua,

I understand that account in Kings still was real fire that caused a chemical reaction to break down the substances completely. The account in Revelation even adds brimstone which is a very strong indicator that God is using physical phenomena to illustrate how spiritual beings can also be destroyed the same way things are destroyed on earth with powerful fires. Take a nuclear fire wall nothing remains, it is gone forever and ever. The fire does not remain but the total destruction does.

I agree that a wicked spirit being can also be destroyed but I'm certain they are not burned with brimstone, so clearly that is symbolic and thus other parts of the vs can be as well.

Digging
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Yeah it;s interesting because the fire actually consumed the items. I'm not sure any usual fire will do this. Does a nuclear event consume rocks ?

Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
(1Ki 18:38 KJV)

Also i think it should be noted that Jesus used Gehenna as the simile ( or as the actual place the wicked will be destroyed ) for the LoF and Gehenna was an actual place that was burning.

JLB said:
It's called Lightning
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Does lightning consume rocks ? I'm not sure I know if it does.
 
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Matt 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire ; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

How many believe that this is a literal furnace? Will righteous ones turn into to literal 'suns' also?

Notice most of all how he says he who has ears, let him hear. Don;t we all have ears?? Is Jesus saying in his day only half of the people even had ears on their head so the message was only for them? Clearly not he is meaning something more, he knew we might not perceive the lesson of his message.

Digging
 
agua. said:
Ah yes ta. It's funny after using Bible software for so long I don't have a good memory of Bible verses anymore. I should work on that.



Yeah it;s interesting because the fire actually consumed the items. I'm not sure any usual fire will do this. Does a nuclear event consume rocks ?

Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
(1Ki 18:38 KJV)

Also i think it should be noted that Jesus used Gehenna as the simile ( or as the actual place the wicked will be destroyed ) for the LoF and Gehenna was an actual place that was burning.



Does lightning consume rocks ? I'm not sure I know if it does.
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Well I do know that after the boom dropped on Japan that there was only a shadow like mark of the outline of people left on brick walls but there was not even any bones left. The reason I mention this is because limestone was often used which is mainly calcium like bones.

Digging
 
digging said:
Well I do know that after the boom dropped on Japan that there was only a shadow like mark of the outline of people left on brick walls but there was not even any bones left. The reason I mention this is because limestone was often used which is mainly calcium like bones.

Digging
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Yes true but limestone is one of the "softest" minerals. Would say a diamond or a sapphire or in Elijah's case maybe something like a basalt or granite stone be totally consumed ? I don't know.
 
agua. said:
Yes true but limestone is one of the "softest" minerals. Would say a diamond or a sapphire or in Elijah's case maybe something like a basalt or granite stone be totally consumed ? I don't know.
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Well it could definitely melt, all rocks can melt, if the strike was right on then maybe they could be vaporized, diamonds burn by the way....they are made of carbon.

We are getting of the topic.....however I believe the physical creation is different from the spiritual and not effected in the same way by the same things.
 
digging said:
Well it could definitely melt, all rocks can melt, if the strike was right on then maybe they could be vaporized, diamonds burn by the way....they are made of carbon.

We are getting of the topic.....however I believe the physical creation is different from the spiritual and not effected in the same way by the same things.
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Yeah i agree. The all consuming fire of Yahweh is probably something I don't understand fully.
 
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