How is a biblical conflict solved?

[GodsGrace]

I don't see Jesus morphing into a different form as diminishing him. The only thing that did diminish in that morphosis is he voluntarily diminished his equality with God, refusing to exercise the power and rights of that position he surely has in order to become a faithful and merciful High Priest acquainted with the plight of mankind, and thus able to sympathize with us and help us. He surely did condescend and diminish that way. To God's glory.

We're saying that it's incorrect to call Mary the Mother of God.
That would mean she did not birth God.
Any form of God.
That would mean Jesus is not God.

This morphing thing is something I've never heard of and am not sure it's doctrinally correct.

 

[GodsGrace]

Mother implies a lot of things. Define for us what you mean by 'mother' of God. Then we can answer you better, I guess.

A mother is a woman that has given birth to a child.
A mother is also a woman who properly raises that child in the way God would want her to.

This art seems to be a bit lost these days,
but that's a different thread.

 

[jaybo]

But they have to get correct teaching first.
Not make it up themselves.

Like the office of the Pope? Where is that in the Bible?

 

[jaybo]

A mother is a woman that has given birth to a child.
A mother is also a woman who properly raises that child in the way God would want her to.

This art seems to be a bit lost these days,
but that's a different thread.

It certainly is.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, no, no
We do not adore Mary

From very early times the Catholic Church made a clear distinction between the adoration due to God alone (latria – Latin/Greek) and the honour due to humans (dulia- Greek). The term hyperdulia was used for the additional honour due to Mary.

Totally forgotten about latria and dulia.
Does latria mean adoration then?
I guess so.
Thanks.

CCC 2628
2628 Adoration is the first attitude of man acknowledging that he is a creature before his Creator.

It exalts the greatness of the Lord who made us and the almighty power of the Savior who sets us free from evil.

Adoration is homage of the spirit to the "King of Glory," respectful silence in the presence of the "ever greater" God. Adoration of the thrice-holy and sovereign God of love blends with humility and gives assurance to our supplications.

 

[jaybo]

Totally forgotten about latria and dulia.
Does latria mean adoration then?
I guess so.
Thanks.

CCC 2628
2628 Adoration is the first attitude of man acknowledging that he is a creature before his Creator.

It exalts the greatness of the Lord who made us and the almighty power of the Savior who sets us free from evil.

Adoration is homage of the spirit to the "King of Glory," respectful silence in the presence of the "ever greater" God. Adoration of the thrice-holy and sovereign God of love blends with humility and gives assurance to our supplications.

Adoration is the act of adoring something -- anything. The above is a special religious definition from the catechism of the Catholic church. It doesn't apply to non-Catholics who think for themselves.

 

[GodsGrace]

Adoration is the act of adoring something -- anything. The above is a special religious definition from the catechism of the Catholic church. It doesn't apply to non-Catholics who think for themselves.

Well, we are discussing religion here.
And Protestants shouldn't be worshipping or adoring other beings except God either, which I'm sure they don't.

I mean, we adore our children, I adore Firenze, but that's different.
That's not theology.

 

[jaybo]

Well, we are discussing religion here.
And Protestants shouldn't be worshipping or adoring other beings except God either, which I'm sure they don't.

I mean, we adore our children, I adore Firenze, but that's different.
That's not theology.

But we are not discussing the technical use from the catechism of a single denomination.

I totally agree that Protestants (or anyone) shouldn't be worshipping or adoring other beings except God -- including Mary. The extreme adoration of the "virgin" Mary by Catholics is not Scriptural.

 

[GodsGrace]

But we are not discussing the technical use from the catechism of a single denomination.

I totally agree that Protestants (or anyone) shouldn't be worshipping or adoring other beings except God -- including Mary. The extreme adoration of the "virgin" Mary by Catholics is not Scriptural.

But she's the mother of our Lord.
:halo

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This morphing thing is something I've never heard of and am not sure it's doctrinally correct.

The word 'form' in this passage is the Greek word 'morphe':

6Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,a
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.
Philippians 2:6-7

It's the same Greek word used in this verse:

12After this, Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them as they walked along in the country.
Mark 16:12

It means to be in a different form. A change of form, not the addition of another form. Jesus changed his form when he came from heaven. Just as he changed his form when he talked to the disciples on the road to Emmaus. Same Jesus, different form.

 

[Hopeful]

OK
So doesn't that make Mary the Mother of God?
I read your post 319.
You see what's happening?
We're diminishing Jesus as God.

No it doesn't.
God has always existed, so can't have anyone they are gendered from.
Jesus however, was conceived 2000 some years ago.
He is no longer the Word that was with God and was God.
Mary was His mother.

 

[Hopeful]

I gave it you.
1 John 2:2
and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
No mere man could do that. Only God.

Jesus was our advocate with the Father, not the Father Himself.
Jesus was the propitiation for our sins, not Father.

Jesus was both man and God. One person, two natures.

If anything, He was man and the Word.
But He gave up being the Word when He took on skin and bones.
He isn't the Word anymore.

 

[Hopeful]

I'm thinking about all this.
I still think, like I told Hopeful that we're diminishing Jesus as God.

What scripture(s) do you use to show that Jesus was God?

 

[Hopeful]

Oh my goodness Hopeful.
How crass!

Is Jesus His own Father?

I mean, we Protestants really need to have some respect and honor for the Mother of our Savior.

Can't we respect and honor her without idolizing her?
Your capital "M" in "mother" is worrisome.

 

[Edward]

No it doesn't.
God has always existed, so can't have anyone they are gendered from.
Jesus however, was conceived 2000 some years ago.
He is no longer the Word that was with God and was God.
Mary was His mother.

That can't be right. He was the word, and the word was God, and the word was with God. And He emptied Himself of His divinity to become a flesh man. And walked the earth as a man, and a man now sits on the right hand of God.

Mary was God's vessel. Mary's Mother, (saint Anna?) was purified before Mary was even conceived, and Mary was divinely purified because she is a vessel unto God. The hand of God was heavy upon Mary and her Mother so that Mary did not have original sin.

 

[Edward]

Can't we respect and honor her without idolizing her?
Your capital "M" in "mother" is worrisome.

Brother, but that's the Mother of our Lord! And I am as faraway from Catholic as they come!

 

[Edward]

What scripture(s) do you use to show that Jesus was God?

John 1:1

 

[Mungo]

You say we know truth by the Catholic church telling us it's truth. John says we know what is truth by the anointing of the Holy Spirit telling us it's truth.

You are just rycling a failed argument

 

[Mungo]

Do you realize this is really a copout statement? You do use it a lot. Others could reply with the same thing about everything you post but that wouldn't help edify anyone. The whole point of discussions like this is to work toward the truth, not add fuel to the animosity that exists. Just my $.02 and yes, it is just my opinion.

But it's true,
These protestants claim to be sola scriptura but rarely back up their opinions with scripture (or any evidence)

 

[Mungo]

What is lacking in the teachings of the Prophets and the Apostles in the Bible that only the Catholic church can reveal to us?

All the things that are not written in scripture.
Scripture itself is very clear that not everything is written down in scripture (e.g. John 1:25, 2 John 1:12, 3John 1:13-14, 2Thess 2:15)