How Much different?

[Classik]

No

 

[Kathi]

Neither one of these passages say that being drunk is a sin.

Isaiah 29
9 Pause and wonder!
Blind yourselves and be blind!
They are drunk, but not with wine;
They stagger, but not with intoxicating drink.
10 For the Lord has poured out on you
The spirit of deep sleep,
And has closed your eyes, namely, the prophets;
And He has covered your heads, namely, the seers.
11 The whole vision has become to you like the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one who is literate, saying, “Read this, please.” And he says, “I cannot, for it is sealed.”
12 Then the book is delivered to one who is illiterate, saying, “Read this, please.”And he says, “I am not literate.”
13 Therefore the Lord said: “Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,
14 Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvelous work Among this people, A marvelous work and a wonder; For the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, And the understanding of their prudent men shall be hidden.”

Ephesians 5
15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise,
16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,
.

Look at the definition for dissipation
1.
dissipated living.
"a descent into drunkenness and sexual dissipation"
synonyms:debauchery, decadence, dissoluteness, dissolution, intemperance, excess, overconsumption, profligacy, self-indulgence, wildness;
Ecclesiastes 9:7 says it is ok to drink wine.
Ephesians 5:18 speaks against getting drunk.

 

[jeff77]

I used to smoke for years. Sometimes I wonder how much money all those packs of cigs over all the years would add up to and what it could have been used for instead?

 

[Kathi]

Provide verse for this. Thanks

All I know is that God made a superior wine John 2:10.According to the verse it was more superior than the wine they ran out of.I don't know if the wine was fermented differently only a reference from a pastor talking about the history of the Bible.It definately was "wine" and was alcoholic or the Bible would have said it was grape juice.

 

[Deborah13]

That is an easy one because God set a clear president in the scriptures. Not only with the Tower of Bable but it is clearest there, God never wanted us to live in the hovels that cities create where people grow closer and closer t one another and conspire with one another to do evil. Many will scream that leaving the city is easier said than done but that is because they have not fully surrendered their lives to God, not even yet to the point of real trust. I know one other family that can but does not save for the future but instead, fully relying on God, spends their vacation time and money to travel to Africa to evangelize.

Deeter and I always spent at least half of our vacations building and creating VBS projects and the other halves teaching the same. My pastor and his wife do the Africa thing and in both cases we determined to live for God alone and if one does that, they do not lay up for retirement because god has promised to care for those of us that devote ourselves to Him and to His service. Except one moves to China I'm not sure the pollution is that bad but I can be wrong.

And the second, from Vietnam I was that person. My dad was also that person having fought the Pacific Theatre from the beginning through two years of occupation. Dad, except he repented just before he passed, went to Hell and never trusted God. I on the other hand did January 1, 1990 and God took my cigarettes at the same time He took the joints, nose candy, pills, injections and booze. That's a lot of habits to break, all at once.

Some people, on the other hand have chemical imbalances of the brain they deal with and need their meds. I, for one, do not awaken the whole household shepherding them into a Foxhole that lives only in my dreams if I take that one pill before I go to bed at night. This is the thorn my LORD has given me to stretch and to grow me stronger with and I do not pretend to be the only person in the world God has permitted to be tested thus. This seocd group of people need love and to be touched with friendship.

Hope that makes sense to you.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Deborah13]

What is the wine?

Ahh....wine.
Sheesh.....strong drink and wine. Wine is not considered to be strong drink. Maybe you should do your own word studies before asking us what we think? What do you think?

 

[Kathi]

Ahh....wine.
Sheesh.....strong drink and wine. Wine is not considered to be strong drink. Maybe you should do your own word studies before asking us what we think? What do you think?

I sure would have liked to have a taste of that wine that Jesus made

 

[Deborah13]

All I know is that God made a superior wine John 2:10.According to the verse it was more superior than the wine they ran out of.I don't know if the wine was fermented differently only a reference from a pastor talking about the history of the Bible.It definately was "wine" and was alcoholic or the Bible would have said it was grape juice.

I think the difference in the scriptures is between ''new' wine' (unfermented) and 'wine' (fermented).

You don't put 'new wine' in old wineskins. As the new wine ferments and produces gases it will break the old wineskin or bottle.
Just my , .

 

[Classik]

Ahh....wine.
Sheesh.....strong drink and wine. Wine is not considered to be strong drink. Maybe you should do your own word studies before asking us what we think? What do you think?

Non alcoholic = wine

 

[Kathi]

I think the difference in the scriptures is between ''new' wine' (unfermented) and 'wine' (fermented).

You don't put 'new wine' in old wineskins. As the new wine ferments and produces gases it will break the old wineskin or bottle.
Just my , .

No I think wine is wine.Here is a definition of old wine and new wine
http://www.localwineevents.com/resources/questions/view/295

 

[Kathi]

Non alcoholic = wine

Wine is wine.It is alcoholic.Grape juice is juice with no alcohol in it.The Bible refers to "Wine".

 

[Classik]

I sure would have liked to have a taste of that wine that Jesus made

Try Estrella Damm:wink

 

[Kathi]

Try Estrella Damm:wink

Is that a brand of wine?....I don't drink.

 

[Gary]

Non alcoholic = wine

Would you mind posting the scripture for that.........please?

 

[Classik]

Would you mind posting the scripture for that.........please?

I asked to know if that was what she meant.

 

[Classik]

How much wine did Christ drink?

 

[Edward]

Wanting to know how different a person who does cigarette smoking is from another that does the so-called higher ones

Oh, ok. I think I have gist of it now.

Not a lot of difference in my mind. They both are stimulants and whether one wants to admit it or not, There's a certain "high" associated with either. Slightly different of course, but make no mistake, one get's high from smoking cigarettes. Call it what you will, stimulated, relaxing, whatever, it is a "high"

Indians used to smoke tobacco in their teepees and close it all up to sit in the smoke cloud and so forth. It could be discussed all night about teeny details with the pros and cons of either. For instance, cannabis cures many ailments and perhaps even cancer. I do know one thing for sure, it's a very effective muscle relaxer. After I had my accident which injured my back, they had me on pain pills, but they would only do so much and many times I had trouble sleeping. Not so if I would partake of some pot before bed. I slept real good then.

I think Romans 14 has applicability here. The intent of ones heart plays a role here. Is one using it to get high and be worldly? Or for it's medicinal properties? Big difference. I started smoking pot at a very young age. As I aged, I grew out of it, and didn't want to 'get high' anymore. So I quit. Three days later, I had an epileptic seizure. (I've been epileptic since ~age 5) I had heard about it's anti-seizure properties, so knew what happened. I started smoking it again for the extra security of not having a seizure because I drive a lot for work. I had been seizure free for 17 years before this happened, so it was clear that it helped.

I kept smoking it and remained seizure free for another 11 years and began to think...maybe it was a fluke? So again, I quit smoking it. Four days later I had another epileptic seizure. No fluke there. But I really wanted to quit smoking it, it's a young mans vice, I like being clear headed. So the point is, it does have very real medicinal properties. It took quite a bit of fortitude of spirit to lay it down for good at this point. A lot of prayer and being extra careful to not miss any doses of my anti-seizure meds.

There's ways to get the medicinal properties without getting high. Edibles. More or less at least. It still affects you if not done carefully and in the right amounts. But it was too much complication for me, I wanted to quit, and not play games with it.

So is that a sin? (To use it for it's medicinal properties and not to get high?) I don't think so.

 

[Kathi]

How much wine did Christ drink?

Well,we know that he did not get drunk.Because scripture says that is a sin and Jesus never sinned.

 

[Kathi]

Oh, ok. I think I have gist of it now.

Not a lot of difference in my mind. They both are stimulants and whether one wants to admit it or not, There's a certain "high" associated with either. Slightly different of course, but make no mistake, one get's high from smoking cigarettes. Call it what you will, stimulated, relaxing, whatever, it is a "high"

Indians used to smoke tobacco in their teepees and close it all up to sit in the smoke cloud and so forth. It could be discussed all night about teeny details with the pros and cons of either. For instance, cannabis cures many ailments and perhaps even cancer. I do know one thing for sure, it's a very effective muscle relaxer. After I had my accident which injured my back, they had me on pain pills, but they would only do so much and many times I had trouble sleeping. Not so if I would partake of some pot before bed. I slept real good then.

I think Romans 14 has applicability here. The intent of ones heart plays a role here. Is one using it to get high and be worldly? Or for it's medicinal properties? Big difference. I started smoking pot at a very young age. As I aged, I grew out of it, and didn't want to 'get high' anymore. So I quit. Three days later, I had an epileptic seizure. (I've been epileptic since ~age 5) I had heard about it's anti-seizure properties, so knew what happened. I started smoking it again for the extra security of not having a seizure because I drive a lot for work. I had been seizure free for 17 years before this happened, so it was clear that it helped.

I kept smoking it and remained seizure free for another 11 years and began to think...maybe it was a fluke? So again, I quit smoking it. Four days later I had another epileptic seizure. No fluke there. But I really wanted to quit smoking it, it's a young mans vice, I like being clear headed. So the point is, it does have very real medicinal properties. It took quite a bit of fortitude of spirit to lay it down for good at this point. A lot of prayer and being extra careful to not miss any doses of my anti-seizure meds.

There's ways to get the medicinal properties without getting high. Edibles. More or less at least. It still affects you if done carefully and in the right amounts. But it was too much complication for me, I wanted to quit, and not play games with it.

So is that a sin? (To use it for it's medicinal properties and not to get high?) I don't think so.

Hey that was not regular tobacco that the indians smoked.

 

[Classik]

Oh, ok. I think I have gist of it now.

Not a lot of difference in my mind. They both are stimulants and whether one wants to admit it or not, There's a certain "high" associated with either. Slightly different of course, but make no mistake, one get's high from smoking cigarettes. Call it what you will, stimulated, relaxing, whatever, it is a "high"

Indians used to smoke tobacco in their teepees and close it all up to sit in the smoke cloud and so forth. It could be discussed all night about teeny details with the pros and cons of either. For instance, cannabis cures many ailments and perhaps even cancer. I do know one thing for sure, it's a very effective muscle relaxer. After I had my accident which injured my back, they had me on pain pills, but they would only do so much and many times I had trouble sleeping. Not so if I would partake of some pot before bed. I slept real good then.

I think Romans 14 has applicability here. The intent of ones heart plays a role here. Is one using it to get high and be worldly? Or for it's medicinal properties? Big difference. I started smoking pot at a very young age. As I aged, I grew out of it, and didn't want to 'get high' anymore. So I quit. Three days later, I had an epileptic seizure. (I've been epileptic since ~age 5) I had heard about it's anti-seizure properties, so knew what happened. I started smoking it again for the extra security of not having a seizure because I drive a lot for work. I had been seizure free for 17 years before this happened, so it was clear that it helped.

I kept smoking it and remained seizure free for another 11 years and began to think...maybe it was a fluke? So again, I quit smoking it. Four days later I had another epileptic seizure. No fluke there. But I really wanted to quit smoking it, it's a young mans vice, I like being clear headed. So the point is, it does have very real medicinal properties. It took quite a bit of fortitude of spirit to lay it down for good at this point. A lot of prayer and being extra careful to not miss any doses of my anti-seizure meds.

There's ways to get the medicinal properties without getting high. Edibles. More or less at least. It still affects you if not done carefully and in the right amounts. But it was too much complication for me, I wanted to quit, and not play games with it.

So is that a sin? (To use it for it's medicinal properties and not to get high?) I don't think so.

Side effect? Problem is the actual active ingredient is usually not known or not easy to isolate