How to defend the trinity!
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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BIBLICAL OUTLINE OF THE TRINITY
In this post I will highlight the biblical texts that point to the one true God eternally existing as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
1. THE ONE TRUE GOD
OT: Deut. 4:35, 39; 6:4; 32:39; 1 Kgs. 8:60; 2 Chron. 15:3; Pss. 86:10; 100:3; Isa. 37:16, 20; 43:10-11; 44:6-8; 45:5-6, 21-22; 46:9; Jer. 10:10-11; 2:11; Mal. 2:10
NT: Mk. 12:29, 32; Jn. 5:44; Rom. 3:30; 16:27; 1 Tim. 1:17; James 2:19
THE FATHER DESCRIBED AS GOD
Jn. 5:43-44; 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3, 17; 4:6; 1 Thss. 1:9; 1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 1:1; 2 Pt. 1:17
THE SON DESCRIBED AS GOD
Isa. 9:6 (Cf. 10:20-21; Mt. 4:15-16); Mt. 1:22-23 (Cf. Isa. 7:14); Lk. 8:39 (Cf. Ps. 66:16); Jn. 1:1; 20:28; Acts 20:28; Rom. 9:5; 1 Tim. 1:12-17; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pt. 1:1; 1 Jn. 5:20; Rev. 21:7
THE HOLY SPIRIT DESCRIBED AS GOD
2 Sam. 23:2-3; Acts 5:3-4
2. THE ETERNAL CREATOR AND SUSTAINER/LIFE-GIVER
YHWH
Gen. 1:1; 2:1, 4-7, 19-24; 14:19, 22; Deut. 32:6-9, 15, 18; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:12-17; Neh. 9:6; Job 9:8; 10:8-12; 35:10; Pss. 24:1-2; 36:9; 95:3-6; 102:25-27; Isa. 40:28; 41:4; 42:5; 43:6-7, 20-21; 44:24; 45:12, 18; 48:13; 64:8; Jer. 10:12; 51:15
THE FATHER
Jn. 5:21, 26; 10:29; Acts 17:24-31; Eph. 3:9; Heb. 1:2; 3:4; 11:3; 1 Tim. 6:13; Rev. 4:11
THE SON
Jn. 1:3-4, 10; 5:21, 25-26, 28-29; 6:39-44, 53-54, 57; 10:28; 11:25-26; 14:6; Acts 3:15; 1 Cor. 8:6; 15:45; Col. 1:15-17; 3:4; Heb. 1:2-3, 10-12; 3:3-4; Rev. 3:14
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Gen. 1:2; Job 33:4; Ps. 104:30; Mt. 1:18, 20; Lk. 1:34-35; Jn. 6:63; Rom. 8:9-13; 2 Cor. 3:6
3. GOD’S ESSENTIAL OMNI-ATTRIBUTES
The Bible attests that God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent by nature. These are called the omni-attributes of God.
YHWH
Gen. 17:1; 18:14; 1 Kgs. 8:39; 1 Chron. 28:9; Pss. 44:21; 121:3-4; 139:1-16; 147:4-5; Isa. 40:17, 26; 41:21-24; 44:25-28; 45:1-7; 55:10-11; 62:6-7; 65:24; Jer. 23:23-24; 32:17-18, 27; Dan. 2:37-38; 4:24-26, 31-32, 34-37; Amos 9:2-4
THE FATHER
Mt. 6:6, 8, 18; 19:26; Mk. 14:36; 1 Jn. 3:20; Rev. 4:8, 11
THE SON
Mk. 2:8; 7:24-30; Mt. 8:5-13; 16:27; 18:20; 28:18-20; Jn. 1:45-49; 2:24-25; 4:43-54; 14:13-14, 20-21, 23; 16:29-31; 21:17 2 Cor. 13:5; Eph. 1:20-23; 3:18-19; 4:7-10; Phil. 3:21; Col. 1:27; 2:2-3; 3:11; Rev. 1:8, 17-18; 2:1, 18-23; 3:1; 5:6; 17:14; 22:12-13
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Gen. 6:3, 17; 7:15, 22; Num. 11:16-17, 24-29; Pss. 104:30; 139:7-12; Isa. 11:1-2; 30:1; 32:14-15; 34:16; 40:13-14; 44:1-3; 59:21; 63:10-11, 14; Ezek. 36:25-27; 37:12-14; 39:29; Mt. 10:19-20; Mk. 13:11; Jn. 7:38-39; 14:16-17, 26; Acts 2:1-4, 27-28, 33; Rom. 8:9-17, 26-27; 1 Cor. 2:10-12; 3:16; 6:19; 2 Cor. 5:5; Gal. 4:6; Eph. 1:13-14, 17-18; 2:22; 4:30; 1 Tim. 4:1; 2 Tim. 1:14
4. RESURRECTING JESUS AND MANKIND
The inspired Scriptures assign the resurrection of Christ and of humanity at the end of the age to all three divine Persons of God.
THE FATHER
Acts 2:22-24; 3:15; 13:32-35; 17:30-31; 1 Cor. 6:14; 2 Cor. 4:14; Gal. 1:1
THE SON
Jn. 2:19-22; 5:25, 28-29; 6:39-40, 44, 54; 10:17-18, 28; 1 Thss. 4:13-18; Phil. 3:21
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Rom. 8:11-13; 1 Pet. 3:18
5. SAVIOR
By Savior I mean God is the one who forgives, delivers and transforms individuals. And I include within this term the role of intercession and mediation, since these functions procure a believer’s righteous standing before God.
YHWH
Isa. 43:10-11, 25; 44:6; 45:21-22; 63:8-9; Hos. 13:4
THE FATHER
Mt. 19:26-27; 1 Tim. 2:3-4; 4:10; Tit. 1:3; 2:11; 3:4
THE SON
Mt. 1:21; 26:26-28; Mark 10:45; Jn. 3:17; 4:42; 12:47; Acts 3:26; 5:31; 13:23; Rom. 3:25; 8:3, 32-34; Eph. 1:7; 5:23; 2 Timothy 1:10; Tit. 1:4; 2:13; 3:6; Heb. 2:9-18; 4:14-16; 7:23-26; 9:14, 23-28; 1 Jn. 1:7; 2:1-2; 4:10, 14; Rev. 1:6; 5:9-10; 7:9-17
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Jn. 3:3-5; 6:63; 14:16-17, 26; 16:7-13; Rom. 8:26-27; 2 Cor. 3:6, 17-18; Heb. 9:14; 10:15-17
6. SANCTIFIER
Though sanctifying, or the act of making one holy and separate from sin, would naturally fall under the category of salvation I , nonetheless, distinguish it here for the purpose of highlighting how all three divine Persons are involved in this act of making individuals holy.
THE FATHER
1 Thss. 5:23
THE SON
1 Cor. 6:11; Eph. 5:25-26; Heb. 2:11; 10:10, 14; 13:12
THE HOLY SPIRIT
1 Cor. 6:11; 2 Thss. 2:13; 1Pt. 1:2
7. SOURCE OF ALL SPIRITUAL GIFTS/BLESSINGS
THE FATHER
Mt. 7:11; Lk. 11:13; 1 Cor. 1:3; 12:6; 2 Cor. 13:14; Rev. 1:4
THE SON
Jn. 15:1-8; 1 Cor. 1:3; 12:5; 2 Cor. 8:9; Eph. 3:8; 4:11-16; Phil. 1:11; 2 Jn. 1:3; Rev. 1:5-6; 22:21
THE HOLY SPIRIT
1 Cor. 12:4, 7-11; 2 Cor. 13:14; Gal. 5:16-26; Rev. 1:4
8. THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT ARE NOT THE SAME SELF BUT ARE PERSONALLY DISTINCT
Gen. 1:1-2; Isa. 11:1-2; 42:1; 48:16; 61:1-2; Mt. 3:16-17; 12:28-32; 10:19-20; 12:17-18; 28:19; Mark 1:1, 7-8; 3:22-30; Lk. 1:35; 4:1, 14, 18; Jn. 1:32-34; 5:18-37; 8:16-19; 14:16-17, 26; 15:26; 16:14-15; 20:21-22; Acts 1:5-8; 2:1-4, 17-18, 30-38; Rom. 8:11-17, 26-27, 32-34; 1 Cor. 6:11; 12:3-14; 2 Cor. 13:14; Gal. 4:4-6; Eph. 2:18-22; 4:4-11; 1 Pet. 1:2; Jude 1:20-21
9. ALL THREE PERSONS IDENTIFIED AS YHWH
THE FATHER
Pss. 2:7; 110:1 (Cf. Acts 13:32-33; Heb. 1:5, 13); Isa. 42:1-4 (Cf. Mt. 12:17-21); 53:8, 10 (Cf. Lk. 22:37; Acts 8:30-35; 1 Pt. 2:21-25); Isa. 63:16; 64:8
THE SON
Mt. 3:1-3, 11-15; Mk. 1:1-3; Lk. 3:1-6, 15-17; Jn. 1:23, 29-36 (Cf. Isa. 40:3-5); Mt. 1:21 (Cf. Ps. 130:7-8); Jn. 12:40-41 (Cf. Isa. 6:1-10); Rom. 10:9-13 (Cf. Joel 2:32); Heb. 1:10-12 (Cf. Ps. 102:25-27); 1 Pt. 2:3 (Cf. Ps. 34:8); 3:14-15 (Cf. Isa. 8:12-13); Jude 1:4-5, 14-15
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Acts 28:25-27 (Cf. Isa. 6:1-10); 2 Corinthians 3:12-18 (Cf. Exod. 34:1-7, 29-34); Heb. 3:7-11 (Cf. Ps. 95:7-11); 10:15-17 (Cf. 8:8-12; Jer. 31:33-34)
BIBLICAL OUTLINE OF THE TRINITY
In this post I will highlight the biblical texts that point to the one true God eternally existing as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 1. THE ONE TRUE GOD OT: Deut. 4:35, 39; 6:4; 32:39; 1 Kgs. 8:60; 2…
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Butch5
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Do you realize this is a logical contradiction?BIBLICAL OUTLINE OF THE TRINITY
In this post I will highlight the biblical texts that point to the one true God eternally existing as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
1. THE ONE TRUE GOD
OT: Deut. 4:35, 39; 6:4; 32:39; 1 Kgs. 8:60; 2 Chron. 15:3; Pss. 86:10; 100:3; Isa. 37:16, 20; 43:10-11; 44:6-8; 45:5-6, 21-22; 46:9; Jer. 10:10-11; 2:11; Mal. 2:10
NT: Mk. 12:29, 32; Jn. 5:44; Rom. 3:30; 16:27; 1 Tim. 1:17; James 2:19
THE FATHER DESCRIBED AS GOD
Jn. 5:43-44; 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3, 17; 4:6; 1 Thss. 1:9; 1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 1:1; 2 Pt. 1:17
THE SON DESCRIBED AS GOD
Isa. 9:6 (Cf. 10:20-21; Mt. 4:15-16); Mt. 1:22-23 (Cf. Isa. 7:14); Lk. 8:39 (Cf. Ps. 66:16); Jn. 1:1; 20:28; Acts 20:28; Rom. 9:5; 1 Tim. 1:12-17; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pt. 1:1; 1 Jn. 5:20; Rev. 21:7
THE HOLY SPIRIT DESCRIBED AS GOD
2 Sam. 23:2-3; Acts 5:3-4
2. THE ETERNAL CREATOR AND SUSTAINER/LIFE-GIVER
YHWH
Gen. 1:1; 2:1, 4-7, 19-24; 14:19, 22; Deut. 32:6-9, 15, 18; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:12-17; Neh. 9:6; Job 9:8; 10:8-12; 35:10; Pss. 24:1-2; 36:9; 95:3-6; 102:25-27; Isa. 40:28; 41:4; 42:5; 43:6-7, 20-21; 44:24; 45:12, 18; 48:13; 64:8; Jer. 10:12; 51:15
THE FATHER
Jn. 5:21, 26; 10:29; Acts 17:24-31; Eph. 3:9; Heb. 1:2; 3:4; 11:3; 1 Tim. 6:13; Rev. 4:11
THE SON
Jn. 1:3-4, 10; 5:21, 25-26, 28-29; 6:39-44, 53-54, 57; 10:28; 11:25-26; 14:6; Acts 3:15; 1 Cor. 8:6; 15:45; Col. 1:15-17; 3:4; Heb. 1:2-3, 10-12; 3:3-4; Rev. 3:14
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Gen. 1:2; Job 33:4; Ps. 104:30; Mt. 1:18, 20; Lk. 1:34-35; Jn. 6:63; Rom. 8:9-13; 2 Cor. 3:6
3. GOD’S ESSENTIAL OMNI-ATTRIBUTES
The Bible attests that God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent by nature. These are called the omni-attributes of God.
YHWH
Gen. 17:1; 18:14; 1 Kgs. 8:39; 1 Chron. 28:9; Pss. 44:21; 121:3-4; 139:1-16; 147:4-5; Isa. 40:17, 26; 41:21-24; 44:25-28; 45:1-7; 55:10-11; 62:6-7; 65:24; Jer. 23:23-24; 32:17-18, 27; Dan. 2:37-38; 4:24-26, 31-32, 34-37; Amos 9:2-4
THE FATHER
Mt. 6:6, 8, 18; 19:26; Mk. 14:36; 1 Jn. 3:20; Rev. 4:8, 11
THE SON
Mk. 2:8; 7:24-30; Mt. 8:5-13; 16:27; 18:20; 28:18-20; Jn. 1:45-49; 2:24-25; 4:43-54; 14:13-14, 20-21, 23; 16:29-31; 21:17 2 Cor. 13:5; Eph. 1:20-23; 3:18-19; 4:7-10; Phil. 3:21; Col. 1:27; 2:2-3; 3:11; Rev. 1:8, 17-18; 2:1, 18-23; 3:1; 5:6; 17:14; 22:12-13
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Gen. 6:3, 17; 7:15, 22; Num. 11:16-17, 24-29; Pss. 104:30; 139:7-12; Isa. 11:1-2; 30:1; 32:14-15; 34:16; 40:13-14; 44:1-3; 59:21; 63:10-11, 14; Ezek. 36:25-27; 37:12-14; 39:29; Mt. 10:19-20; Mk. 13:11; Jn. 7:38-39; 14:16-17, 26; Acts 2:1-4, 27-28, 33; Rom. 8:9-17, 26-27; 1 Cor. 2:10-12; 3:16; 6:19; 2 Cor. 5:5; Gal. 4:6; Eph. 1:13-14, 17-18; 2:22; 4:30; 1 Tim. 4:1; 2 Tim. 1:14
4. RESURRECTING JESUS AND MANKIND
The inspired Scriptures assign the resurrection of Christ and of humanity at the end of the age to all three divine Persons of God.
THE FATHER
Acts 2:22-24; 3:15; 13:32-35; 17:30-31; 1 Cor. 6:14; 2 Cor. 4:14; Gal. 1:1
THE SON
Jn. 2:19-22; 5:25, 28-29; 6:39-40, 44, 54; 10:17-18, 28; 1 Thss. 4:13-18; Phil. 3:21
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Rom. 8:11-13; 1 Pet. 3:18
5. SAVIOR
By Savior I mean God is the one who forgives, delivers and transforms individuals. And I include within this term the role of intercession and mediation, since these functions procure a believer’s righteous standing before God.
YHWH
Isa. 43:10-11, 25; 44:6; 45:21-22; 63:8-9; Hos. 13:4
THE FATHER
Mt. 19:26-27; 1 Tim. 2:3-4; 4:10; Tit. 1:3; 2:11; 3:4
THE SON
Mt. 1:21; 26:26-28; Mark 10:45; Jn. 3:17; 4:42; 12:47; Acts 3:26; 5:31; 13:23; Rom. 3:25; 8:3, 32-34; Eph. 1:7; 5:23; 2 Timothy 1:10; Tit. 1:4; 2:13; 3:6; Heb. 2:9-18; 4:14-16; 7:23-26; 9:14, 23-28; 1 Jn. 1:7; 2:1-2; 4:10, 14; Rev. 1:6; 5:9-10; 7:9-17
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Jn. 3:3-5; 6:63; 14:16-17, 26; 16:7-13; Rom. 8:26-27; 2 Cor. 3:6, 17-18; Heb. 9:14; 10:15-17
6. SANCTIFIER
Though sanctifying, or the act of making one holy and separate from sin, would naturally fall under the category of salvation I , nonetheless, distinguish it here for the purpose of highlighting how all three divine Persons are involved in this act of making individuals holy.
THE FATHER
1 Thss. 5:23
THE SON
1 Cor. 6:11; Eph. 5:25-26; Heb. 2:11; 10:10, 14; 13:12
THE HOLY SPIRIT
1 Cor. 6:11; 2 Thss. 2:13; 1Pt. 1:2
7. SOURCE OF ALL SPIRITUAL GIFTS/BLESSINGS
THE FATHER
Mt. 7:11; Lk. 11:13; 1 Cor. 1:3; 12:6; 2 Cor. 13:14; Rev. 1:4
THE SON
Jn. 15:1-8; 1 Cor. 1:3; 12:5; 2 Cor. 8:9; Eph. 3:8; 4:11-16; Phil. 1:11; 2 Jn. 1:3; Rev. 1:5-6; 22:21
THE HOLY SPIRIT
1 Cor. 12:4, 7-11; 2 Cor. 13:14; Gal. 5:16-26; Rev. 1:4
8. THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT ARE NOT THE SAME SELF BUT ARE PERSONALLY DISTINCT
Gen. 1:1-2; Isa. 11:1-2; 42:1; 48:16; 61:1-2; Mt. 3:16-17; 12:28-32; 10:19-20; 12:17-18; 28:19; Mark 1:1, 7-8; 3:22-30; Lk. 1:35; 4:1, 14, 18; Jn. 1:32-34; 5:18-37; 8:16-19; 14:16-17, 26; 15:26; 16:14-15; 20:21-22; Acts 1:5-8; 2:1-4, 17-18, 30-38; Rom. 8:11-17, 26-27, 32-34; 1 Cor. 6:11; 12:3-14; 2 Cor. 13:14; Gal. 4:4-6; Eph. 2:18-22; 4:4-11; 1 Pet. 1:2; Jude 1:20-21
9. ALL THREE PERSONS IDENTIFIED AS YHWH
THE FATHER
Pss. 2:7; 110:1 (Cf. Acts 13:32-33; Heb. 1:5, 13); Isa. 42:1-4 (Cf. Mt. 12:17-21); 53:8, 10 (Cf. Lk. 22:37; Acts 8:30-35; 1 Pt. 2:21-25); Isa. 63:16; 64:8
THE SON
Mt. 3:1-3, 11-15; Mk. 1:1-3; Lk. 3:1-6, 15-17; Jn. 1:23, 29-36 (Cf. Isa. 40:3-5); Mt. 1:21 (Cf. Ps. 130:7-8); Jn. 12:40-41 (Cf. Isa. 6:1-10); Rom. 10:9-13 (Cf. Joel 2:32); Heb. 1:10-12 (Cf. Ps. 102:25-27); 1 Pt. 2:3 (Cf. Ps. 34:8); 3:14-15 (Cf. Isa. 8:12-13); Jude 1:4-5, 14-15
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Acts 28:25-27 (Cf. Isa. 6:1-10); 2 Corinthians 3:12-18 (Cf. Exod. 34:1-7, 29-34); Heb. 3:7-11 (Cf. Ps. 95:7-11); 10:15-17 (Cf. 8:8-12; Jer. 31:33-34)
BIBLICAL OUTLINE OF THE TRINITY
In this post I will highlight the biblical texts that point to the one true God eternally existing as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 1. THE ONE TRUE GOD OT: Deut. 4:35, 39; 6:4; 32:39; 1 Kgs. 8:60; 2…
Butch5
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In this post I will highlight the biblical texts that point to the one true God eternally existing as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
8. THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT ARE NOT THE SAME SELF BUT ARE PERSONALLY DISTINCT
In the first statement it says one true God existing as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The second statement says they are not the same self. Those two statements contradict one another.
Last edited:
Probably a scribal error.
I don't think Sam Shamoun is that far gone.
But thank you for bringing it to my attention-I will leave the post as is.
Shalom
J.
Thank you. I notice some of that in the English translations of the Talmud, three is important. Also their use of "word" which paralleled NT use. But I didn't realize Jewish scholars have discussed this.
Yes, they did-
GENESIS 1-6
[JERUSALEM. And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them.]…
And a garden from the Eden of the just was planted by the Word of the Lord God before the creation of the world, and He made there to dwell the man when He had created him. And the Lord God made to grow from the ground every tree that was desirable to behold and good to eat, and the tree of life in the midst of the garden, whose height was a journey of five hundred years, and the tree of whose fruit they who ate would distinguish between good and evil…
And the woman beheld Sammael, the angel of death, and was afraid; yet she knew that the tree was good to eat, and that it was medicine for the enlightenment of the eyes, and desirable tree by means of which to understand. And she took of its fruit, and did eat; and she gave to her husband with her, and he did eat. And the eyes of both were enlightened, and they knew that they were naked, divested of the purple robe in which they had been created. And they saw the sight of their shame, and sewed to themselves the leaves of figs, and made to them cinctures. [JERSULAEM. And they made to them vestments.] And they heard the voice of the word of the Lord God walking in the garden in the repose of the day; and Adam and his wife hid themselves from before the Lord God among the trees of the garden. And the Lord God called to Adam, and said to him, Is not all the world which I have made manifest before Me; the darkness as the light? and how hast thou thought in thine heart to hide from before Me? The place where thou art concealed, do I not see? Where are the commandments that I commanded thee?
[JERUSALEM. Walking in the garden in the strength of the day……And the Word of the Lord God called to Adam, and said to him, Behold, the world which I have created is manifest before Me; and how thinkest thou that the place in the midst whereof thou art, is not revealed before Me? Where is the commandment which I taught thee?]
And he said, The voice of Thy Word heard I in the garden, and I was afraid, because I am naked; and the commandment which Thou didst teach me, I have transgressed; therefore I hid myself from shame…
And the Lord God said to the angels who ministered before Him, Behold, Adam is sole on the earth, as I am sole in the heavens above; and it will be that they will arise from him who will know to discern between good and evil. Had he kept the commandments which I appointed to him, he would have lived and subsisted as the tree of life for ever. But now, because he hath not kept that which I prescribed, it is decreed against him that we keep him from the garden of Eden, before he reach forth his hand and take of the tree of life: for, behold, if he eat thereof, living he will live and subsist for ever. And the Lord God removed him from the garden of Eden; and he went and dwelt on Mount Moriah, to cultivate the ground from which he had been created. And He drave out the man from thence where He had made to dwell the glory of His Shekina at the first between the two Kerubaia. Before He had created the world, He created the law; He prepared the garden of Eden for the righteous, that they might eat and delight themselves with the fruit of the tree; because they would have practised in their lives the doctrine of the law in this world, and have maintained the commandments: (but) he prepared Gehinnam for the wicked, which is like the sharp, consuming sword of two edges; in the midst of it He hath prepared flakes of fire and burning coals for the judgment of the wicked who rebelled in their life against the doctrine of the law. To serve the law is better than (to eat of) the fruit of the tree of life, (the law) which the Word of the Lord prepared, that man in keeping it might continue, and walk in the paths of the way of life in the world to come.
[JERUSALEM. And the Word of the Lord God said, Behold, Adam whom I have created is sole in my world, as I am sole in the heavens above. It is to be that a great people are to arise from him; from him will arise a people who will know how to discern between good and evil. And now it is good that we keep him from the garden of Eden before he stretch forth his hand and take also of the fruit of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever……And He cast out Adam, and made the glory of His Shekina to dwell at the front of the east of the garden of Eden, above the two Kerubaia. Two thousand years before He had created the world, He created the law, and prepared Gehinnam and the garden of Eden. He prepared the garden of Eden for the righteous, that they should eat, and delight themselves with the fruit of the tree, because they had kept the commandments of the law in this world. For the wicked He prepared Gehinnam, which is like the sharp, consuming sword with two edges. He prepared in the depth of it flakes of fire and burning coals for the wicked, for their punishment for ever in the world to come, who have not kept the commandment of the law in this world. For the law is the tree of life; whoever keepeth it in this life liveth and subsisteth as the tree of life. The law is good to keep in this world, as the fruit of the tree of life in the world that cometh.]…
And Hanok served in the truth before the Lord; and, behold, he was not with the sojourners of the earth; for he was withdrawn, and he ascended to the firmament by the Word before the Lord, and his name was called Metatron the Great Saphra.
[JERUSALEM. And Hanok served in the truth before the Lord; and, behold, he was not; for he was withdrawn by the Word from before the Lord.]…
And the Lord said by His Word, All the generations of the wicked which are to arise shall not be purged after the order of the judgments of the generation of the deluge, which shall be destroyed and exterminated from the midst of the world. Have I not imparted My Holy Spirit to them, (or, placed My Holy Spirit in them,) that they may work good works? And, behold, their works are wicked. Behold, I will give them a prolongment of a hundred and twenty years, that they may work repentance, and not perish.
[JERUSALEM. And the Word of the Lord said, The generations which are to arise shall not be judged after (the manner of) the generation of the deluge, (which is) to be destroyed, and exterminated, and finally blotted out. Have I not imparted My Spirit to the sons of men, because they are flesh, that they may work good works? But they do works of evil. Behold, I have given them a prolongment of a hundred and twenty years, that they may work repentance; but they have not done it.]
Schamchazai and Uzziel, who fell from heaven, were on the earth in those days; and also, after the sons of the Great had gone in with the daughters of men, they bare to them: and these are they who are called men who are of the world, men of names.
And the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and all the imagery of the thought of his heart was only evil every day. And it repented the Lord in His Word that He had made man upon the earth; and He passed judgment upon them by His Word.
[JERUSALEM. And there was repentance before the Lord in His Word that He had made man upon the earth…And He said, and judged in His heart.]
And the Lord said, I will abolish by My Word man, whom I have created upon the face of the earth, from man to cattle, to the reptile, and to the fowl of the heavens; because I have repented in My Word that I have made them. But Noah, who was righteous, found favour before the Lord. (Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, in The Targums of Onkelos and Jonathan Ben Uzziel
On the Pentateuch With The Fragments of the Jerusalem Targum From the Chaldee, by J. W. Etheridge, M.A., First Published 1862, 1-6)
And they heard the voice of the Word of the Lord God walking in the garden in the evening of the day;[21] and Adam and his wife hid themselves from before the Lord God among the trees of the garden. And the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, Where art thou? And he said, The voice of Thy Word heard I in the garden, and I was afraid, because I (was) naked, and I would hide…
And the Lord saw that the wickedness of man had multiplied in the earth, and that every formation (or image) of the thought of his heart was only evil every day. And it repented the Lord in His Word that He had made men upon the earth. And He said, (in His Word,)[34] that He would break their strength according to His pleasure. And the Lord said, Man whom I have made will I blot out[35] I from the face of the earth;‑from man to the beast, to the reptile, and to the fowls of heaven; because it repenteth Me in My Word that I have made them. But Noach found mercy before the Lord. (Etheridge, Targum Onkelos, 1-6)
For a further read-re the Memra.
THE TRINITY IN THE ARAMAIC TARGUMS
In this post I will be citing from the Aramaic paraphrases of the Hebrew Bible composed by Jews, called the Targums (Targumim). Targum is an Aramaic term meaning explanation/interpretation. These J…
answeringislamblog.wordpress.com
Perhaps this illustrates the difference between being "self taught" and a proper University education. I satisfied myself the OT taught the Holy Trinity, observing how the idea is woven in the fabric of Scripture, the relationships of God, the Angel of the LORD, His Word and His Spirit. It never occurred to me Jewish Scholarship honestly considered and deliberated on the same evidence. Thanks' again. I bought B D Sommer's book on Kindle, can't wait to read his research on this.Yes, they did-
GENESIS 1-6
[JERUSALEM. And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them.]…
And a garden from the Eden of the just was planted by the Word of the Lord God before the creation of the world, and He made there to dwell the man when He had created him. And the Lord God made to grow from the ground every tree that was desirable to behold and good to eat, and the tree of life in the midst of the garden, whose height was a journey of five hundred years, and the tree of whose fruit they who ate would distinguish between good and evil…
And the woman beheld Sammael, the angel of death, and was afraid; yet she knew that the tree was good to eat, and that it was medicine for the enlightenment of the eyes, and desirable tree by means of which to understand. And she took of its fruit, and did eat; and she gave to her husband with her, and he did eat. And the eyes of both were enlightened, and they knew that they were naked, divested of the purple robe in which they had been created. And they saw the sight of their shame, and sewed to themselves the leaves of figs, and made to them cinctures. [JERSULAEM. And they made to them vestments.] And they heard the voice of the word of the Lord God walking in the garden in the repose of the day; and Adam and his wife hid themselves from before the Lord God among the trees of the garden. And the Lord God called to Adam, and said to him, Is not all the world which I have made manifest before Me; the darkness as the light? and how hast thou thought in thine heart to hide from before Me? The place where thou art concealed, do I not see? Where are the commandments that I commanded thee?
[JERUSALEM. Walking in the garden in the strength of the day……And the Word of the Lord God called to Adam, and said to him, Behold, the world which I have created is manifest before Me; and how thinkest thou that the place in the midst whereof thou art, is not revealed before Me? Where is the commandment which I taught thee?]
And he said, The voice of Thy Word heard I in the garden, and I was afraid, because I am naked; and the commandment which Thou didst teach me, I have transgressed; therefore I hid myself from shame…
And the Lord God said to the angels who ministered before Him, Behold, Adam is sole on the earth, as I am sole in the heavens above; and it will be that they will arise from him who will know to discern between good and evil. Had he kept the commandments which I appointed to him, he would have lived and subsisted as the tree of life for ever. But now, because he hath not kept that which I prescribed, it is decreed against him that we keep him from the garden of Eden, before he reach forth his hand and take of the tree of life: for, behold, if he eat thereof, living he will live and subsist for ever. And the Lord God removed him from the garden of Eden; and he went and dwelt on Mount Moriah, to cultivate the ground from which he had been created. And He drave out the man from thence where He had made to dwell the glory of His Shekina at the first between the two Kerubaia. Before He had created the world, He created the law; He prepared the garden of Eden for the righteous, that they might eat and delight themselves with the fruit of the tree; because they would have practised in their lives the doctrine of the law in this world, and have maintained the commandments: (but) he prepared Gehinnam for the wicked, which is like the sharp, consuming sword of two edges; in the midst of it He hath prepared flakes of fire and burning coals for the judgment of the wicked who rebelled in their life against the doctrine of the law. To serve the law is better than (to eat of) the fruit of the tree of life, (the law) which the Word of the Lord prepared, that man in keeping it might continue, and walk in the paths of the way of life in the world to come.
[JERUSALEM. And the Word of the Lord God said, Behold, Adam whom I have created is sole in my world, as I am sole in the heavens above. It is to be that a great people are to arise from him; from him will arise a people who will know how to discern between good and evil. And now it is good that we keep him from the garden of Eden before he stretch forth his hand and take also of the fruit of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever……And He cast out Adam, and made the glory of His Shekina to dwell at the front of the east of the garden of Eden, above the two Kerubaia. Two thousand years before He had created the world, He created the law, and prepared Gehinnam and the garden of Eden. He prepared the garden of Eden for the righteous, that they should eat, and delight themselves with the fruit of the tree, because they had kept the commandments of the law in this world. For the wicked He prepared Gehinnam, which is like the sharp, consuming sword with two edges. He prepared in the depth of it flakes of fire and burning coals for the wicked, for their punishment for ever in the world to come, who have not kept the commandment of the law in this world. For the law is the tree of life; whoever keepeth it in this life liveth and subsisteth as the tree of life. The law is good to keep in this world, as the fruit of the tree of life in the world that cometh.]…
And Hanok served in the truth before the Lord; and, behold, he was not with the sojourners of the earth; for he was withdrawn, and he ascended to the firmament by the Word before the Lord, and his name was called Metatron the Great Saphra.
[JERUSALEM. And Hanok served in the truth before the Lord; and, behold, he was not; for he was withdrawn by the Word from before the Lord.]…
And the Lord said by His Word, All the generations of the wicked which are to arise shall not be purged after the order of the judgments of the generation of the deluge, which shall be destroyed and exterminated from the midst of the world. Have I not imparted My Holy Spirit to them, (or, placed My Holy Spirit in them,) that they may work good works? And, behold, their works are wicked. Behold, I will give them a prolongment of a hundred and twenty years, that they may work repentance, and not perish.
[JERUSALEM. And the Word of the Lord said, The generations which are to arise shall not be judged after (the manner of) the generation of the deluge, (which is) to be destroyed, and exterminated, and finally blotted out. Have I not imparted My Spirit to the sons of men, because they are flesh, that they may work good works? But they do works of evil. Behold, I have given them a prolongment of a hundred and twenty years, that they may work repentance; but they have not done it.]
Schamchazai and Uzziel, who fell from heaven, were on the earth in those days; and also, after the sons of the Great had gone in with the daughters of men, they bare to them: and these are they who are called men who are of the world, men of names.
And the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and all the imagery of the thought of his heart was only evil every day. And it repented the Lord in His Word that He had made man upon the earth; and He passed judgment upon them by His Word.
[JERUSALEM. And there was repentance before the Lord in His Word that He had made man upon the earth…And He said, and judged in His heart.]
And the Lord said, I will abolish by My Word man, whom I have created upon the face of the earth, from man to cattle, to the reptile, and to the fowl of the heavens; because I have repented in My Word that I have made them. But Noah, who was righteous, found favour before the Lord. (Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, in The Targums of Onkelos and Jonathan Ben Uzziel
On the Pentateuch With The Fragments of the Jerusalem Targum From the Chaldee, by J. W. Etheridge, M.A., First Published 1862, 1-6)
And they heard the voice of the Word of the Lord God walking in the garden in the evening of the day;[21] and Adam and his wife hid themselves from before the Lord God among the trees of the garden. And the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, Where art thou? And he said, The voice of Thy Word heard I in the garden, and I was afraid, because I (was) naked, and I would hide…
And the Lord saw that the wickedness of man had multiplied in the earth, and that every formation (or image) of the thought of his heart was only evil every day. And it repented the Lord in His Word that He had made men upon the earth. And He said, (in His Word,)[34] that He would break their strength according to His pleasure. And the Lord said, Man whom I have made will I blot out[35] I from the face of the earth;‑from man to the beast, to the reptile, and to the fowls of heaven; because it repenteth Me in My Word that I have made them. But Noach found mercy before the Lord. (Etheridge, Targum Onkelos, 1-6)
For a further read-re the Memra.
THE TRINITY IN THE ARAMAIC TARGUMS
In this post I will be citing from the Aramaic paraphrases of the Hebrew Bible composed by Jews, called the Targums (Targumim). Targum is an Aramaic term meaning explanation/interpretation. These J…
You'll be surprised how little the world knows re rabbinical writings-it's freely available-you just have to know where to look.
Enjoy my brother.
J.
I have Logos10 and a library of books accumulated over the decades, perhaps worth tens of thousands of dollars. They will soon incorporate AI, to aid in searching.
Logos | The Most Complete Bible Study Platform
Jump into Logos and experience the most powerful bible study platform that will equip you to go deeper into scripture so you will know the Word like never before.
www.logos.com
Think of it as a great public library of every book written about the Bible, by anyone in Christendom over the centuries. A wealth of information instantly available, via a search for words or phrases. But its search is "clunky", and perhaps the addition of an AI will make finding anything, easy.
Included in the library is the Talmud, all the English versions of it. So I know where to look. I looked up Sommer's references to read them for myself. With Logos its easy to do. I define the collection of books "every book with TALM* in name and incredibly, 125 books appear. Then I search for whatever I want in just those books.
peace
Consider yourself blessed-I have nothing-and no finances to do what you do.I have Logos10 and a library of books accumulated over the decades, perhaps worth tens of thousands of dollars. They will soon incorporate AI, to aid in searching.
Logos | The Most Complete Bible Study Platform
Jump into Logos and experience the most powerful bible study platform that will equip you to go deeper into scripture so you will know the Word like never before.
Think of it as a great public library of every book written about the Bible, by anyone in Christendom over the centuries. A wealth of information instantly available, via a search for words or phrases. But its search is "clunky", and perhaps the addition of an AI will make finding anything, easy.
Included in the library is the Talmud, all the English versions of it. So I know where to look. I looked up Sommer's references to read them for myself. With Logos its easy to do. I define the collection of books "every book with TALM* in name and incredibly, 125 books appear. Then I search for whatever I want in just those books.
peace
Here in South Africa I live by faith.
Shalom Achi.
J.
E-sword accomplishes much for free:
e-Sword: Free Bible Study for the PC
e-Sword is a feature rich and user friendly free Windows app with everything needed to study the Bible in an enjoyable and enriching manner!
www.e-sword.net
I have e-sword-over 30 years.E-sword accomplishes much for free:
e-Sword: Free Bible Study for the PC
e-Sword is a feature rich and user friendly free Windows app with everything needed to study the Bible in an enjoyable and enriching manner!
Thanks
J.
I believe in being God taught-Spirit taught-no need for the theshiva of the Academia-the gospel is for the common people-not professors and intellectuals.
Act 19:9 But when some unbelievers in the shul were being hardened and were disobeying, speaking Chillul Hashem of the Derech Hashem before the multitude, Rav Sha'ul withdrew from them. Rav Sha'ul took the Moshiach's talmidim and yom yom was saying shiurim in the [Messianic] yeshiva of Tyrannus.
1Co_1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co_1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co_1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co_1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co_3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co_3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co_3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1Co_3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
1Co_4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
1Co_6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
J.
In your biblical studies when you come across theological words, phrases, and or slogans that are not in the scriptures, that is a red flag for false beliefs. Because 99% of the time they are items that someone in the past that were promulgating a belief that is false or misleading. It is like modern advertising….catchy words and phrases. Like Unleaded Gas….“Unleaded gas was more expensive because they have to take the lead out.” That is a lie, they had to add lead as a lubricant.
1. In this case the word Trinity is not in the scriptures.
2. The one God formula for the Trinity is a Catholic doctrine.
3. There are over a hundred scriptures that prove that the one God formula for the Trinity as false.
Just obvious examples; In the Gospels there are several examples of God the Father and God the Son interacting. The New Testament refers to them as Father and Son and at the end of some of the letters/books the Apostles refer to God the Father as God and Christ as Lord in the same sentence. And Christ said, The Father is greater than I…..Christ refers to God the Father as His God and refers to His Father in Heaven. The will of the Father is referred to a few times in the Gospels and that Christ does the will of the Father.
When Christ was baptized and came up out of the water, God said, This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased;….beloved Son…not beloved self. Was God pleased with Himself? He did not say, There I am getting baptized…..God the Son was baptized, not all three Gods.
God the Son ascended to God the Father and sat on the right hand of the Father….not in His lap.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life....Not gave His beloved self…..Again Father and Son.
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Was Christ talking to Himself or His God? Who thinks that they crucified God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?
1. In this case the word Trinity is not in the scriptures.
2. The one God formula for the Trinity is a Catholic doctrine.
3. There are over a hundred scriptures that prove that the one God formula for the Trinity as false.
Just obvious examples; In the Gospels there are several examples of God the Father and God the Son interacting. The New Testament refers to them as Father and Son and at the end of some of the letters/books the Apostles refer to God the Father as God and Christ as Lord in the same sentence. And Christ said, The Father is greater than I…..Christ refers to God the Father as His God and refers to His Father in Heaven. The will of the Father is referred to a few times in the Gospels and that Christ does the will of the Father.
When Christ was baptized and came up out of the water, God said, This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased;….beloved Son…not beloved self. Was God pleased with Himself? He did not say, There I am getting baptized…..God the Son was baptized, not all three Gods.
God the Son ascended to God the Father and sat on the right hand of the Father….not in His lap.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life....Not gave His beloved self…..Again Father and Son.
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Was Christ talking to Himself or His God? Who thinks that they crucified God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?
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Which is not relevant as to whether or not it is true, correct? Do you believe that monotheism is biblical? How about penal substitutionary atonement? What about the rapture? What about…?
I find it is much easier to sum a doctrine into as few words as possible to make it easier to discuss.
Which is not relevant as to whether or not it is true, correct?
I have yet to see one.
Not only do those not prove the Trinity false, the use of Father and Son to refer to two distinct persons proves the deity of Christ, thereby supporting the doctrine of the Trinity.
None of those prove the Trinity false. Context really matters.
Do you know the doctrine of the Trinity states? I ask because your question here suggests that you don’t, as does your reference to “three Gods.”
What does this have to with the Trinity? One person can either choose to sit on another person’s lap or stand beside them.
Again, this suggests that you do not understand the doctrine of the Trinity. I have found that that is most often why people think it is false.
Again, these suggest you don’t understand the doctrine.
Welcome to the forums!
Lots of questions....Monotheism....no. I believe in
God the Father…Yahweh…God Almighty…Creator of Heaven and Earth.
God the Son…Yeshua…the Son of God…Messiah…Savior.
The Holy Spirit…the unnamed God…helper…guide… teacher… strengthener. Pretty much along the lines of the Apostle’s Creed.
I believe rapture is discussed in the scriptures....