Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

How to defend the trinity!

First of all there is only 1 God and whatever our thoughts about the Trinity, Jesus is either "God with us" Immanuel, or he is God's representative. Either way, we can trust and be guided by Him. Jesus is the Good Shepherd, who leads us beside the still waters of Psalm 23 and we can see Jesus leading, caring and protecting the Israelites in the wilderness. It was the I AM who divided the Red Sea, it was the I AM who first spoke to Moses, it was the I AM who gave Moses the commandments and it was the I AM who got them out of Egypt without a drop of blood being spilled.
I AM also said his name was YHWH, which I clearly showed. And it is YHWH who is the Shepherd in Psalms 23:

Psa 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD [YHWH] is my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2 He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters.
Psa 23:3 He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 23:4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
Psa 23:5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; you anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of the LORD [YHWH] forever. (ESV)

Then things changed. The I AM became Jehovah (Yahweh) and Aaron made a Golden Calf who he calls LORD, saying ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!’” (Exo 32:8).
No, not a thing changed. The I AM himself said his name was YHWH.

Exo 32:4 And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!”
Exo 32:5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD [YHWH].”
Exo 32:6 And they rose up early the next day and offered burnt offerings and brought peace offerings. And the people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.
Exo 32:7 And the LORD [YHWH] said to Moses, “Go down, for your people, whom you brought up out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves.
Exo 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way that I commanded them. They have made for themselves a golden calf and have worshiped it and sacrificed to it and said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!’”
Exo 32:9 And the LORD [YHWH] said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiff-necked people.
Exo 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them, in order that I may make a great nation of you.”
Exo 32:11 But Moses implored the LORD [YHWH] his God and said, “O LORD [YHWH], why does your wrath burn hot against your people, whom you have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand?
Exo 32:12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘With evil intent did he bring them out, to kill them in the mountains and to consume them from the face of the earth’? Turn from your burning anger and relent from this disaster against your people.
Exo 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, to whom you swore by your own self, and said to them, ‘I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have promised I will give to your offspring, and they shall inherit it forever.’”
Exo 32:14 And the LORD [YHWH] relented from the disaster that he had spoken of bringing on his people.
...
Exo 32:26 then Moses stood in the gate of the camp and said, “Who is on the LORD's [YHWH's] side? Come to me.” And all the sons of Levi gathered around him.
Exo 32:27 And he said to them, “Thus says the LORD [YHWH] God of Israel, ‘Put your sword on your side each of you, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and each of you kill his brother and his companion and his neighbor.’”
Exo 32:28 And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses. And that day about three thousand men of the people fell.
Exo 32:29 And Moses said, “Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD [YHWH], each one at the cost of his son and of his brother, so that he might bestow a blessing upon you this day.”
Exo 32:30 The next day Moses said to the people, “You have sinned a great sin. And now I will go up to the LORD [YHWH]; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.”
Exo 32:31 So Moses returned to the LORD [YHWH] and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold.
Exo 32:32 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.”
Exo 32:33 But the LORD [YHWH] said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.
Exo 32:34 But now go, lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them.”
Exo 32:35 Then the LORD [YHWH] sent a plague on the people, because they made the calf, the one that Aaron made.

I AM is YHWH who is the one true God, the God of Israel, who brought them out of Egypt. That Aaron said "Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD [YHWH]," only means that the Golden Calf was representative of YWHW, likely copying the Egyptian idol of Apis: https://www.worldhistory.org/Apis/

But what that absolutely does not mean is that YHWH was always this false god that the Israelites worshiped. There is simply no way to conclude that from this context, since God clearly identifies himself as YHWH many times. You are basing this particular doctrine of yours on one verse in the entire Bible, where one person falsely ascribes the name YHWH to an idol. And that against another 6,498 times where this is not at all the case.

YHWH created the heavens and the earth. YHWH gave the Ten Commandments. YHWH is the name of the one true God.

We have the I AM (LORD) giving Moses the commandments and we have Aaron making an image to the LORD. There are two LORDS.
No, there are not.

Satan has always been present since Adam and Eve and Satan is known as the imposter and the deceiver. Look at Strongs Concordance and you will see that Yah (H3050) in Yah-Hovah means "god" and if you look at the second part of Yahovah "Hovah" which is Strongs number H1942 you will see it means "eagerly coveting, falling, desire, ruin, calamity, iniquity, mischief, naughtiness, noisome, perverse, very wickedness."

Satan became known as both LORD and Yahovah, and as we read through the Bible we can see two opposites, we can see the true God, the I AM who loves us, saves us, and gave his life for us so that we might have eternal life and we have the people in the crowd shouting out "CRUCIFY HIM." Jesus tells us who their god was in John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." This is the LORD, who the people followed; it is Yahweh the destroyer.
Now you're making up words that don't exist in the Hebrew. What is Strong's number for "Yahovah"? It is an exegetical fallacy to put two words together as though they make up another particular word.

YHWH, or Yahweh, or more incorrectly, Jehovah, is Strong's #H3068:

יְהֹוָה
yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.
Total KJV occurrences: 6521

The I AM who was right in front of them, hanging from a cross, said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." And he rose from the dead. The I AM is my God. He is my heavenly Father from the beginning, and my eternal Saviour.
.
The I AM, also known as YHWH, who has always existed as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is my God and Saviour. That is the one true, biblical God.
 
I AM also said his name was YHWH, which I clearly showed. And it is YHWH who is the Shepherd in Psalms 23:

Psa 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD [YHWH] is my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2 He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters.
Psa 23:3 He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 23:4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
Psa 23:5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; you anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of the LORD [YHWH] forever. (ESV)


No, not a thing changed. The I AM himself said his name was YHWH.

Exo 32:4 And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!”
Exo 32:5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD [YHWH].”
Exo 32:6 And they rose up early the next day and offered burnt offerings and brought peace offerings. And the people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.
Exo 32:7 And the LORD [YHWH] said to Moses, “Go down, for your people, whom you brought up out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves.
Exo 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way that I commanded them. They have made for themselves a golden calf and have worshiped it and sacrificed to it and said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!’”
Exo 32:9 And the LORD [YHWH] said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiff-necked people.
Exo 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them, in order that I may make a great nation of you.”
Exo 32:11 But Moses implored the LORD [YHWH] his God and said, “O LORD [YHWH], why does your wrath burn hot against your people, whom you have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand?
Exo 32:12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘With evil intent did he bring them out, to kill them in the mountains and to consume them from the face of the earth’? Turn from your burning anger and relent from this disaster against your people.
Exo 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, to whom you swore by your own self, and said to them, ‘I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have promised I will give to your offspring, and they shall inherit it forever.’”
Exo 32:14 And the LORD [YHWH] relented from the disaster that he had spoken of bringing on his people.
...
Exo 32:26 then Moses stood in the gate of the camp and said, “Who is on the LORD's [YHWH's] side? Come to me.” And all the sons of Levi gathered around him.
Exo 32:27 And he said to them, “Thus says the LORD [YHWH] God of Israel, ‘Put your sword on your side each of you, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and each of you kill his brother and his companion and his neighbor.’”
Exo 32:28 And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses. And that day about three thousand men of the people fell.
Exo 32:29 And Moses said, “Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD [YHWH], each one at the cost of his son and of his brother, so that he might bestow a blessing upon you this day.”
Exo 32:30 The next day Moses said to the people, “You have sinned a great sin. And now I will go up to the LORD [YHWH]; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.”
Exo 32:31 So Moses returned to the LORD [YHWH] and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold.
Exo 32:32 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.”
Exo 32:33 But the LORD [YHWH] said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.
Exo 32:34 But now go, lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them.”
Exo 32:35 Then the LORD [YHWH] sent a plague on the people, because they made the calf, the one that Aaron made.

I AM is YHWH who is the one true God, the God of Israel, who brought them out of Egypt. That Aaron said "Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD [YHWH]," only means that the Golden Calf was representative of YWHW, likely copying the Egyptian idol of Apis: https://www.worldhistory.org/Apis/

But what that absolutely does not mean is that YHWH was always this false god that the Israelites worshiped. There is simply no way to conclude that from this context, since God clearly identifies himself as YHWH many times. You are basing this particular doctrine of yours on one verse in the entire Bible, where one person falsely ascribes the name YHWH to an idol. And that against another 6,498 times where this is not at all the case.

YHWH created the heavens and the earth. YHWH gave the Ten Commandments. YHWH is the name of the one true God.


No, there are not.


Now you're making up words that don't exist in the Hebrew. What is Strong's number for "Yahovah"? It is an exegetical fallacy to put two words together as though they make up another particular word.

YHWH, or Yahweh, or more incorrectly, Jehovah, is Strong's #H3068:

יְהֹוָה
yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.
Total KJV occurrences: 6521


The I AM, also known as YHWH, who has always existed as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is my God and Saviour. That is the one true, biblical God.
The JW's do similar. I do not see YHWH being crucified, and only God can save us from our sins, neither shall I be worshipping a one nation god.
.
.
 
Every occasion of Lord, you changed to YHWH. I worship the Lord, not YHWH.
.
You do know that the OT was written in Hebrew and the NT in Greek, and that neither were originally written in English, correct?
 
How do I upload a PDF doc about Pagan Israel?
.
Your PDF doc isn't needed and has nothing to do with answering my question: You do know that the OT was written in Hebrew and the NT in Greek, and that neither were originally written in English, correct?

A simple yes or no is all that is needed.
 
Your PDF doc isn't needed and has nothing to do with answering my question: You do know that the OT was written in Hebrew and the NT in Greek, and that neither were originally written in English, correct?

A simple yes or no is all that is needed.
Even a child knows that.
 
What is your point?
.
My point is:
Is Yaweh some pagan god that was worshipped at some point in history...
or
Is Yaweh the God of the Hebrews that revealed Himself to them and is written about in the OT?

Maybe the name is the same,
maybe it was even stolen from the pagans (this I do not know)....
BUT, is it the same God?
Does it sound like the same God to you?

IOW, I think you're getting two Yaweh's mixed up, even though they have the same name.
 
No matter what name you give to god, or where that name might have originated way back in the bronze age,there is only one god. (Wondering)

That would be the god of ONE nation?
.
No.
That would be the ONE GOD.
The God that created the universe and everything in it.

There is no such thing as the God of one nation....
That would not be the God that we know.
That would necessarily have to be a pagan God - if every nation had their own God.
For instance, Pachuca is a Mexican god that is NOT the creator, the Almighty, the Father.
It's a god they invented and has something to do with nature. He is the god of the Mexicans that believe in Him.
He does not really exist.
 
"God in Judaism has been conceived in a variety of ways" (Wondering quoting Wiki)

What is your point?

It is well known that the Israelites worshipped a variety of gods.

Read the two books of Kings and the two books of Chronicles.
.
What do I need to read?
There were other gods being worshipped at the time of Kings.
But were Israelites worshipping them?
I can't remember this...if you think so, please post the verses.

Because they believed other gods existed does not mean they worshipped them.
The Hebrews lived at a time when many gods were worshipped and they're to be commended for believing that there was only One God.

This is why it was such an important point to them.

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.
Deuteronomy 4:35
To you it was shown, that you might know that the Lord is God; there is no other besides him.
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
 
No.
That would be the ONE GOD.
The God that created the universe and everything in it.

There is no such thing as the God of one nation....
That would not be the God that we know.
That would necessarily have to be a pagan God - if every nation had their own God.
For instance, Pachuca is a Mexican god that is NOT the creator, the Almighty, the Father.
It's a god they invented and has something to do with nature. He is the god of the Mexicans that believe in Him.
He does not really exist.

One God knocks the trinity on the head.

National gods
Apollo for the people of Troy;
Aramazd for Armenians
Assur for the Assyrians;
Ashtoret for the Sidonians;
Baal for the Phoenicians;
Chemosh for the Moabites;
Yahweh for the Israelites;
Dozens of national gods, leaving the I AM as the One omnipresent God.
.
 
One God knocks the trinity on the head.

National gods
Apollo for the people of Troy;
Aramazd for Armenians
Assur for the Assyrians;
Ashtoret for the Sidonians;
Baal for the Phoenicians;
Chemosh for the Moabites;
Yahweh for the Israelites;
Dozens of national gods, leaving the I AM as the One omnipresent God.
.
What are you saying Cooper?

YOU are the one that claims Adonai, Yaweh is the God of Israel.
Are you recanting?
 
What are you saying Cooper?

YOU are the one that claims Adonai, Yaweh is the God of Israel.
Are you recanting?
If you remember I said NO. The true God is the I AM as you know, but they rejected the omnipresent creator of John chapter 1 and elsewhere, and instead turned to idol worship.

How come you don't know this?
.
 
The true God is the I AM as you know, but they rejected the omnipresent creator and instead turned to the worship of idols.
.
:shame

Never used this emoji before !
I'm sitting here shaking my head.
I never heard this before.
Do you mean that the Israelites worshipped other gods when they were exiled?
Or in general when they were in Israel?

To me I AM is the creator, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, Almighty, Sovereign, etc.
Could you post some scripture or something?
I've never come across this idea.
 
Back
Top