"I Believe" Does That Mean I'm Saved?

[FreeGrace]

Reference to edited post.

 

[Chopper]

My good friend JLB. Since I just finished an in-depth study of Revelation, your post is very accurate with ample Scripture to back up your claims. You posted in #235 this,
"So you are one of those who teach a Pastor who is born again and Baptized in the Holy Spirit, can turn to a Homosexual lifestyle, and teach from his pulpit, that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle in God's Kingdom, and still be saved when he dies in this lifestyle?" I'm not absolutely sure who you were referring too, so I'll add my worth.

It is my opinion, based on the same Scriptures that JLB posted, that if anyone turns from what Jesus and His Disciples (Apostles) described as the Christian way of life, and turns to homosexuality they will not inherit eternal life! WILL NOT!! 1Corthians 6:9 " Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality. 1Cor. 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (ESV)

1Timothy 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, (ESV)

 

[ezrider]

My good friend JLB. Since I just finished an in-depth study of Revelation, your post is very accurate with ample Scripture to back up your claims. You posted in #235 this,
"So you are one of those who teach a Pastor who is born again and Baptized in the Holy Spirit, can turn to a Homosexual lifestyle, and teach from his pulpit, that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle in God's Kingdom, and still be saved when he dies in this lifestyle?" I'm not absolutely sure who you were referring too, so I'll add my worth.

It is my opinion, based on the same Scriptures that JLB posted, that if anyone turns from what Jesus and His Disciples (Apostles) described as the Christian way of life, and turns to homosexuality they will not inherit eternal life! WILL NOT!! 1Corthians 6:9 " Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality. 1Cor. 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (ESV)

1Timothy 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, (ESV)

I am not in front of my computer at the moment, so I don't have the scriptures to quote, but I do not see the scripture as listing these specific sins as keeping one from inheriting the kingdom of heaven. Rather it is demonstrating the things that are a result of living after the flesh. Flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of God. It is the Spirit that inherits the kingdom, and by the Spirit the kingdom dwells with us. We who live after the Spirit are free to go in and out, for we too live in the flesh, but have been gifted with the grace found in the law of liberty through Christ. But those who have turned back to trying to perfect or justify themselves after the manner of the law have turned from the Spirit and can not inherit the Kingdom, for the kingdom is of the Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace]

My good friend JLB. Since I just finished an in-depth study of Revelation, your post is very accurate with ample Scripture to back up your claims. You posted in #235 this,
"So you are one of those who teach a Pastor who is born again and Baptized in the Holy Spirit, can turn to a Homosexual lifestyle, and teach from his pulpit, that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle in God's Kingdom, and still be saved when he dies in this lifestyle?" I'm not absolutely sure who you were referring too, so I'll add my worth.

It is my opinion, based on the same Scriptures that JLB posted, that if anyone turns from what Jesus and His Disciples (Apostles) described as the Christian way of life, and turns to homosexuality they will not inherit eternal life! WILL NOT!! 1Corthians 6:9 " Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality. 1Cor. 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (ESV)

1Timothy 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, (ESV)

I fully agree that 1 Cor 6:9 is related to Rev 21. However, let's also realize that there are 2 other parallel passages about inheriting the kingdom: Eph 5:5 and Gal 5:21. The Ephesian passage says "no immoral person…has an inheritance in the kingdom".

They are all related as to what forfeits inheritance. None of the verses are about loss of salvation as some think. It's about loss of inheritance IN the kingdom. There is nothing about not getting into the kingdom.

The fact is, eternal life is a gift of God, from Rom 6:23. And the very next time Paul mentions "gifts of God", is 11:29 where he notes that God's gifts are irrevocable.

That is a very clear teaching that eternal life is just that; eternal. It is not revocable. God does not take it back. And there are no verses about "giving it away", "losing it" or "forfeiting it".

The issue of whether one receives an inheritance IN the kingdom is all about reward or lack of reward. And reward is directly based on performance; faithfulness and obedience to Christ's commands.

All the sins listed refer to disobedient and faithless believers (even apostates) who will lose their eternal reward IN the kingdom. But they'll still be there.

 

[JLB]

They are all related as to what forfeits inheritance. None of the verses are about loss of salvation as some think. It's about loss of inheritance IN the kingdom. There is nothing about not getting into the kingdom.

If you don't inherit the kingdom of God, then you inherit the kingdom of darkness, and end up at the same place as the devil and his angels.

Look up the word inherit, from Galatians 5:21.

It means to obtain, or have a portion in.

If you don't inherit the kingdom of God, then you do not obtain any portion in the kingdom of God.


Jesus defined for us, what happens to those who inherit the kingdom and those who don't.

This has been shown to you countless times, yet you continue to redefine what that phrase means.


Matthew 25:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


Inherit the kingdom = Come, you blessed of My Father...
Those who inherit the kingdom of God are welcomed into the kingdom of God on the Day of judgement.


Those who do not inherit the kingdom = ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Those who do not inherit the Kingdom of God, will inherit the eternal fires of hell along with the Devil and his angels.


It couldn't be any more clear, as to the definition of this phrase.


For us to try and teach God's people that this definition has changed, as to mean "loss of rewards" is deceitful as best, more than likely it's Heresy.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

If you don't inherit the kingdom of God, then you inherit the kingdom of darkness

This assumption is not found in Scripture.

Look up the word inherit, from Galatians 5:21.

It means to obtain, or have a portion in.

Exactly!! To have a portion IN. Unfaithful believers will LOSE their portion IN the kingdom. Not lose their entrance IN the kingdom.

If you don't inherit the kingdom of God, then you do not obtain any portion in the kingdom of God.

That's what I said.

Jesus defined for us, what happens to those who inherit the kingdom and those who don't.

This has been shown to you countless times, yet you continue to redefine what that phrase means.

I've redefined nothing. And I've assumed nothing.

Matthew 25:
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The obvious context is between believers and unbelievers. The saved and unsaved.

Inherit the kingdom = Come, you blessed of My Father...
Those who inherit the kingdom of God are welcomed into the kingdom of God on the Day of judgement.

Those who do not inherit the kingdom = ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Those who do not inherit the Kingdom of God, will inherit the eternal fires of hell along with the Devil and his angels.

It couldn't be any more clear, as to the definition of this phrase.

What is clear is that there is NO MENTION of 'not inheriting the kingdom' in the passage just quoted. Again, nothing more than erroneous assumption.

For us to try and teach God's people that this definition has changed, as to mean "loss of rewards" is deceitful as best, more than likely it's Heresy.

It seems from all of your posts that you don't believe in the promise of reward for believers.

Yet, in the NASB, we find this:
"reward" 50 times
"rewards" 2 times
"rewarded" 8 times
"rewarding" 1 time

We know that the word 'reward' is about earning something.

Do you believe that one earns heaven?

If your answer is 'yes', then your view is pure heresy.

If your answer is 'no', then please explain what a believer will be rewarded for, and what they will be.

 

[JLB]

This assumption is not found in Scripture.

Here are the words those who inherit the kingdom of God will hear:
Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

Here are the words those who don't inherit the kingdom of God will hear:
‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41

I've redefined nothing. And I've assumed nothing.

Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

Here are the words those who don't inherit the kingdom of God will hear:
‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41


Where is the words, or terms or idea of rewards or loss of rewards in these two statements, by The Lord Jesus Christ.





JLB

 

[JLB]

It seems from all of your posts that you don't believe in the promise of reward for believers.

Yet, in the NASB, we find this:
"reward" 50 times
"rewards" 2 times
"rewarded" 8 times
"rewarding" 1 time

We know that the word 'reward' is about earning something.

Do you believe that one earns heaven?

If your answer is 'yes', then your view is pure heresy.

If your answer is 'no', then please explain what a believer will be rewarded for, and what they will be.

Jesus Christ is our reward.

After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward.” Genesis 15:1

All that He is and has and rules and reigns over, will be ours as well, just as a wife shares what is her Husbands.

Those who have been faithful will be rewarded with much.

However for those of His servants that have not been faithful... if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:48-51


Same Jesus, same Olivet Discourse, same set of disciples to whom Jesus spoke privately, and the same context as Matthew 25.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Here are the words those who inherit the kingdom of God will hear:
Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34
Here are the words those who don't inherit the kingdom of God will hear:
‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41
Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34
Here are the words those who don't inherit the kingdom of God will hear:
‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41
Where is the words, or terms or idea of rewards or loss of rewards in these two statements, by The Lord Jesus Christ.
JLB

I've already discussed the issue of inheritance. I don't expect to change your mind.

But the truth is clear from Scripture.

Paul began his epistle to the Romans by mentioned "spiritual gifts" in 1:11. Then, in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17 he describes justification as a gift from God. And he describes eternal life as a gift of God in 6:23.

Then, the very next use of the word "gift" is found in Rom 11:29, where Paul wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Because of these facts, loss of salvation is simply not Biblical. Your views do not line up with Scripture. The verses you've provided have been misunderstood.

There is nothing more to discuss about inheritance.

 

[FreeGrace]

Jesus Christ is our reward.

After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward.” Genesis 15:1

It's always interesting to see how you try to mix and match Scriptures in attempting to defend your views.

To use Gen 15:1 is just another one of those attempts. Jesus Himself said this: “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, torender to every man according to what he has done." Rev 22:12

Was Jesus referring to His twin or something? Of course not.

Throughout Matthew 6 Jesus noted how the hypocrites, etc received "their reward". Was He referring to Himself in those verses? Of course not.

So it seems your concept of "context" isn't even close to what it really means.

But we've seen that in your refusing to accept the obvious in Romans, that eternal life is a gift of God (6:23) that is irrevocable (11:29).

 

[JLB]

It's always interesting to see how you try to mix and match Scriptures in attempting to defend your views.

Here is the statement you made, that I responded to.... It seems from all of your posts that you don't believe in the promise of reward for believers.

To this I answered:

Jesus Christ is our reward.

After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward.” Genesis 15:1

All that He is and has and rules and reigns over, will be ours as well, just as a wife shares what is her Husbands.


If the Lord God Himself is our reward, then we will have everything that we could possible image and more... exceeding abundantly above and beyond all that we can imagine or think.

But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. Matthew 6:33


The Lord has blessed me and given to me more than you can ever imagine, in this life already.

Salvation, healing, restoration, love, as well as Material blessings and protection from my enemies and victory after victory.

I was nothing and had nothing, and was broken and miserable and without hope... as a Christian, not as an unbeliever, but as a Christian.

The Lord began to deal with me and teach me about obedience, and integrity and blessing...

He has blessed me abundantly in this life, and I can only imagine the blessings of the next life.

However, I can honestly say I would trade all, to just be in His presence and fellowship with Him and hear His Voice...

He is my exceedingly great reward.

I have no doubt as to the generosity and kindness of our Lord, and all the wonderful things we have to look forward to in the way of rewards, but I can promise you this, when you get before His throne in heaven... that's where you are going to want to stay, and never leave that place.

To use Gen 15:1 is just another one of those attempts. Jesus Himself said this: “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done." Rev 22:12

Yes He is our reward, and He will reward us accordingly... as He will render to each one according to his deeds”:eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish...Romans 2:6-9

Your Theology doesn't seem to consider the balance of truth in this matter, that rewards have two sides:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish...

The reward for those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Eternal Life

The reward for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness; indignation and wrath

Throughout Matthew 6 Jesus noted how the hypocrites, etc received "their reward". Was He referring to Himself in those verses? Of course not.

Here is what Jesus taught about these things -

14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’

26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest.28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’


This is the Context of verse's just before He said these words in the very next verse:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:14-31


Those who inherit the Kingdom, are those who are blessed and are welcome into God's Kingdom by Jesus Christ, when He returns.

Those who don't inherit the kingdom of God, are those who are cursed, as they inherit the kingdom of darkness along with the devil and his angels.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Here is the statement you made, that I responded to.... It seems from all of your posts that you don't believe in the promise of reward for believers.

By that, I meant specific reward IN heaven.

To this I answered:

Jesus Christ is our reward.

After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward.” Genesis 15:1

All that He is and has and rules and reigns over, will be ours as well, just as a wife shares what is her Husbands.


If the Lord God Himself is our reward, then we will have everything that we could possible image and more... exceeding abundantly above and beyond all that we can imagine or think.

But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. Matthew 6:33


The Lord has blessed me and given to me more than you can ever imagine, in this life already.

Salvation, healing, restoration, love, as well as Material blessings and protection from my enemies and victory after victory.

These are all temporal blessings, except salvation. That extends to eternity, obvously. And these are rewards for faithfulness during our time on earth. But the Bible promises eternal rewards, which it seems you still are either unaware of, or reject as fact.

He has blessed me abundantly in this life, and I can only imagine the blessings of the next life.

Where does the Bible teach being blessed in the next life? It does teach about reward in eternity.

I have no doubt as to the generosity and kindness of our Lord, and all the wonderful things we have to look forward to in the way of rewards, but I can promise you this, when you get before His throne in heaven... that's where you are going to want to stay, and never leave that place.

Do you believe these rewards are for all who will be in heaven, or just some?

Yes He is our reward, and He will reward us accordingly... as He will render to each one according to his deeds”:eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish...Romans 2:6-9

Paul goes on to PROVE that no one can "continue in doing good" and thereby receive eternal life, which you failed to include in your quote of v.7 - "to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life"

iow, no one receives eternal life by continuing in doing good because no one can.

Paul said this: Rom 3:9 - What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin

and this: 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Paul also said this in Rom 2:13 - For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Now, did Paul mean to suggest that it's possible for anyone to obey the law and be declared righteous? For those with that mistaken notion, Paul then wrote this in Rom 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

So, how many will be declared righteous by observing the law? NO ONE will be.

All this proves that no one is going to 'continue in doing good' or in observance of the law and receive eternal life for that.

Because no one CAN do that.

In Paul's own words.

Your Theology doesn't seem to consider the balance of truth in this matter, that rewards have two sides:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish...

I refer you back to the above and Scripture which clarifies what all Paul meant.

The reward for those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Eternal Life

The reward for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness; indignation and wrath

I just proved that no one is able to receive eternal life through continuance in doing good, by obeying the law.

And, just for the record, Paul described both justification (Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17) and eternal life (Rom 6:23) as gifts of God. And the next time he mentions "gifts" is in Rom 11:29, where he wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Do you believe what Paul wrote: that eternal life is a gift of God and that God's gifts are irrevocable?

What reason is there for believing that Rom 11:29 excludes the gift of eternal life? Paul sure didn't make any such suggestion.

 

[JLB]

By that, I meant specific reward IN heaven.

Yes, that why I showed you where your "redefining" what Jesus said.

Jesus said plainly to His servants - Come you blessed, Inherit the kingdom...
Jesus said plainly to His servants - Depart from Me you cursed, into the everlasting fire...

Inherit the Kingdom, not rewards for deeds, but inherit the kingdom or Not!

One group of His servants, inherited the kingdom.

The other group of His servants did not inherit the kingdom of God.

Inheriting the Kingdom of God, or not is what is defined here in these verses.

Rewards are not mentioned here, but rather inheriting the kingdom or not.

The context shows Jesus on His Throne here on earth, with all the different nations before Him as He judges His people.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I just proved that no one is able to receive eternal life through continuance in doing good, by obeying the law.

And, just for the record, Paul described both justification (Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17) and eternal life (Rom 6:23) as gifts of God. And the next time he mentions "gifts" is in Rom 11:29, where he wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Do you believe what Paul wrote: that eternal life is a gift of God and that God's gifts are irrevocable?

What reason is there for believing that Rom 11:29 excludes the gift of eternal life? Paul sure didn't make any such suggestion.

6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good,


Both groups of people here are believers:

One group produces the fruit of the kingdom of God.

The other group does not.

These two groups of The servants of Jesus Christ are being contrasted here.

Paul continues to contrast those two groups of people throughout the Book of Romans.

Romans 6 - to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?


Romans 8 - ...if you live according to the flesh you will die;
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit...12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


Romans 11 - Otherwise you also will be cut off.
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.



All these things are written to Christians.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes, that why I showed you where your "redefining" what Jesus said.

Jesus said plainly to His servants - Come you blessed, Inherit the kingdom...
Jesus said plainly to His servants - Depart from Me you cursed, into the everlasting fire...

Inherit the Kingdom, not rewards for deeds, but inherit the kingdom or Not!

One group of His servants, inherited the kingdom.

The other group of His servants did not inherit the kingdom of God.

Inheriting the Kingdom of God, or not is what is defined here in these verses.

Rewards are not mentioned here, but rather inheriting the kingdom or not.

The context shows Jesus on His Throne here on earth, with all the different nations before Him as He judges His people.JLB

Rom 8:17 reveals 2 kinds of inheritance. One is entering heaven to live with our Heavenly Father because we are His children. That's one kind of inheritance.

The other is about reward IN the kingdom, and is only for those believers who have suffered with Him. This is about reward.

Discernment is key to understanding Scripture. Paul made that clear in 2 Tim 2:15. One needs to be diligent through study in order to be approved and not be ashamed.

 

[FreeGrace]

6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good,

Both groups of people here are believers:

One group produces the fruit of the kingdom of God.

I've already explained the passage. If you disagre with any of it, please take my explanation point by point and SHOW how my understanding is wrong. Thanks.

Simply repeating your view doesn't advance the discussion.

I proved that no one can receive eternal life based on continuance in doing good. I gave verses that support that. All from the very context of Romans.

So address how the verses I've given do NOT support my view.

 

[Jim Parker]

It is my opinion, based on the same Scriptures that JLB posted, that if anyone turns from what Jesus and His Disciples (Apostles) described as the Christian way of life, and turns to homosexuality they will not inherit eternal life! WILL NOT!!

God doesn't change. (Mal 3:6)

And He said:

EZE 18:24 (NKJV) " But IF a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, HE WILL DIE."

iakov the fool

 

[JLB]

I've already explained the passage. If you disagre with any of it, please take my explanation point by point and SHOW how my understanding is wrong. Thanks.

Simply repeating your view doesn't advance the discussion.

I proved that no one can receive eternal life based on continuance in doing good. I gave verses that support that. All from the very context of Romans.

So address how the verses I've given do NOT support my view.

I done that about 1000 times.

You have recklessly ignored the many many scriptures that warn Christians that those who walk in disobedience to God will end up receiving the wrath of God.

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:7-8

and again, Paul warns the Ephesians not to be partakers of Gods wrath by walking in sin, as those who are sons of disobedience.

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7


The only verse you have given, to support your view, Salvation can not be lost, is Romans 11:29.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

The points of contention, against your claim that salvation can not be lost, based on this scripture are as follows:

• No where in this verse is salvation or eternal life mentioned.
• The context: there were those that were cut of from God as branches. Romans 11:19-22, John 15:6
• The meaning of the word irrevocable: not repentant of, unregretted Strong's G278
• The overwhelming clarity of the other scriptures that teach and warn God's people of not inheriting the kingdom of God, through apostasy or practicing the works of the flesh, or taking the mark of the beast.

Case Closed.



JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

Case Closed.

Good luck with that. There are still Arians so OSAS will continue 'til the 2nd coming. Then all will become clear.

iakov the fool

 

[FreeGrace]

I done that about 1000 times.

The only verse you have given, to support your view, Salvation can not be lost, is Romans 11:29.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

Case closed. It does support eternal security. In fact, the verse TEACHES eternal security.

As for that being the "only one", well, wrong again.

Paul was very clear about the sealing with the Holy Spirit for EVERY believer being a PROMISE, a GUARANTEE for the day of redemption.

Unless your view includes believing that God breaks His promises and guarantees, Eph 1;13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 all teach eternal security.

So I've given 7 verses that teach eternal security, not just one. And there are many more.

The points of contention, against your claim that salvation can not be lost, based on this scripture are as follows:
No where in this verse is salvation or eternal life mentioned.
The context: there were those that were cut of from God as branches. Romans 11:19-22, John 15:6
The meaning of the word irrevocable: not repentant of, unregretted Strong's G278
The overwhelming clarity of the other scriptures that teach and warn God's people of not inheriting the kingdom of God, through apostasy or practicing the works of the flesh, or taking the mark of the beast.

All just more straw men.

The word "eternal life" do NOT have to be in Rom 11:29 in order eternal life to be the subject. Because Paul had already defined eternal life as a gift of God, along with justification in 3:24, 5:15,16,17. So both are irrevocable.

The contention is with your side, for failing to prove that Paul didn't have eternal life in mind when he wrote 11:29.

The context for 11:29 is EVERYWHERE before 11:29 that Paul describes what God's gifts are.

Case Closed.JLB

No. [NO!! Be nice! WIP]