What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

I misled us on the issue of divorce - wrong interpretation

Wrg1405 said:
Can I ask a question. It is probably a stupid one but as Forrest said "stupid is as stupid does"

If either spouse divorces the other and remarries what is the act of adultery? Is a one time act or a continual state.

The present tense of the Greek in Matthew 5:32; 19:9; and Luke 16:18 can indicate a continuous state of adultery. At the same time, the present tense in Greek does not always indicate continuous action. Sometimes it simply means that something occurred (Aoristic, Punctiliar, or Gnomic present). For example, the word "divorces" in Matthew 5:32 is present tense, but divorcing is not a continual action. So is remarriage a continual state of adultery or is act of getting remarried itself is adultery.

In the Old Testament Law, the punishment for adultery was death (Leviticus 20:10). At the same time, Deuteronomy 24:1-4 mentions remarriage after a divorce, does not call it adultery, and does not demand the death penalty for the remarried spouse. The Bible explicitly says that God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16), but nowhere explicitly states that God hates remarriage. The Bible nowhere commands a remarried couple to divorce. Deuteronomy 24:1-4 does not describe the remarriage as invalid. Ending a remarriage through divorce would be just as sinful as ending a first marriage through divorce. Both would include the breaking of vows before God, between the couple, and in front of witnesses.

No matter the circumstances, once a couple is remarried, they should strive to live out their married lives in fidelity, in a God-honoring way, with Christ at the center of their marriage. A marriage is a marriage. God does not view the new marriage as invalid or adulterous. A remarried couple should devote themselves to God, and to each other – and honor Him by making their new marriage a lasting and Christ-centered one (Ephesians 5:22-33).
Click to expand...
I have to go with Rollo Tamasi and Mike on this one.

I believe God does not want divorce. He allowed it in Moses' time because of the hardness of their heart. IOW, "if this is how you want it, this is how you could have it." But Jesus said, "But I say to you..." Mathew 5:31-32

To answer your question, it would be a continual sin if one were to divorce and remarry.

Marriage is not a contract, it's an alliance with God present as a witness. As such, it cannot be broken.

So why do I agree with Rollo and Mike?
For the very reason Mike states. God cannot be so harsh. ALL sin is an abomination to God. If He could forgive all the others, He'll forgive this one too. I think it's in the attitude that one takes. Do they take this seriously? Do they take it lightly? IOW, are they SORRY for the divorce? If so, why can't it be put under the blood as all other sin can?

I know a couple of marriages that have broken up. Man leaves woman, Woman leaves man. Works both ways.
There are young children involved. It takes more than money to raise children - it takes a mother and a father who are willing to pitch in and help. School, illness, problems - much to deal with. Can a young mother handle this alone? Can a young father? Are they never to have a helpmate again for their entire life?

Yes. How could our God be so harsh as to require this? To me it's a matter of the heart, as is everything else with God.

W
 
questdriven said:
Even though they don't want sexual relationships, they often still want romantic ones, marriage, etc.
Click to expand...
...but which will almost invariably lead to having sex. Maybe Hollywood is tainting my opinions but I can't help but to think about the female particularly who insists it's not about sex just to end up having sex (insert roll eyes here).

The point being, the sooner a person starts realizing marriage is about being one flesh with the opposite sex (no matter how sure they are sure it is not) the sooner they can't start honestly recognizing the source of the resistance to the very challenging command of God to not divorce except for the two reasons given. Then, after recognizing that, they can then learn how to fight the resistance to God's command to not divorce.

I'm not trying to lay a trip on anybody, so if someone is sure they need to divorce to end a bad situation they need to work it out between them and God. Just in the past month or so I know of a newly married couple who are now divorcing because of his absurdly unreasonable jealousy. Without sharing the details I can plainly tell you I'm okay with it because of those details. I'm saying this to show I'm not insensitive or unreasonable in applying God's command to not divorce except for fornication or abandonment. I honestly think there are times and circumstances where it is truly irrelevant as to whether or not a couple divorces. But I'm sure that amounts to so few marriages that I don't see any reason why a person needs to spend a lot of time exploring to find out if theirs is one of those.
 
wondering said:
I have to go with Rollo Tamasi and Mike on this one.

I believe God does not want divorce. He allowed it in Moses' time because of the hardness of their heart. IOW, "if this is how you want it, this is how you could have it." But Jesus said, "But I say to you..." Mathew 5:31-32

To answer your question, it would be a continual sin if one were to divorce and remarry.

Marriage is not a contract, it's an alliance with God present as a witness. As such, it cannot be broken.

So why do I agree with Rollo and Mike?
For the very reason Mike states. God cannot be so harsh. ALL sin is an abomination to God. If He could forgive all the others, He'll forgive this one too. I think it's in the attitude that one takes. Do they take this seriously? Do they take it lightly? IOW, are they SORRY for the divorce? If so, why can't it be put under the blood as all other sin can?

I know a couple of marriages that have broken up. Man leaves woman, Woman leaves man. Works both ways.
There are young children involved. It takes more than money to raise children - it takes a mother and a father who are willing to pitch in and help. School, illness, problems - much to deal with. Can a young mother handle this alone? Can a young father? Are they never to have a helpmate again for their entire life?

Yes. How could our God be so harsh as to require this? To me it's a matter of the heart, as is everything else with God.

W
Click to expand...
The problem I've seen is when the divorcing spouse already has God's forgiveness for them planned out ahead of time.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
The problem I've seen is when the divorcing spouse already has God's forgiveness for them planned out ahead of time.
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more.
I'm not saying I agree with divorce or that it should be taken lightly.
I think much of the reasoning one hears is: "if it doesn't work out, we could always divorce."
Yes. Truly we've lost the meaning of marriage. One flesh, as you say.
I could add, that I understand and agree to all you say as to why one wants to be married, but I'd like to add that, as a female, the need is also there to have help, companionship and support to get through life. IOW, marriage is VERY important! Woman is truly a man's helpmate and V V.

Wondering
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
I must live in a sheltered world.
I don't see any of this happening.
Click to expand...
Rollo
If you're at all involved with marriage counselling, pre Cana, or any of that, you do see the attitude that some couples have that they could always end the marriage if it doesn't work out to their satisfaction. They don't have the concept anymore that marriage is forever and that if problems come up they need to be worked out.
They also don't understand that staying in a marriage is a matter of the WILL. We WILL to stay with our spouses.
Of course it takes two to tango and this conversation could become very complicated and I do agree with you, so I think this might answer the fact that you're not in a sheltered world, but how would you know the above?? Only if you know the attitude of couples that are actually going to get married. (of course, not all).

W
 
wondering said:
Rollo
If you're at all involved with marriage counselling, pre Cana, or any of that, you do see the attitude that some couples have that they could always end the marriage if it doesn't work out to their satisfaction. They don't have the concept anymore that marriage is forever and that if problems come up they need to be worked out.
They also don't understand that staying in a marriage is a matter of the WILL. We WILL to stay with our spouses.
Of course it takes two to tango and this conversation could become very complicated and I do agree with you, so I think this might answer the fact that you're not in a sheltered world, but how would you know the above?? Only if you know the attitude of couples that are actually going to get married. (of course, not all).

W
Click to expand...
I look back over the years in church since I've been saved, and I don't see this happening.
31 years now.
 
wondering said:
I'm not saying I agree with divorce or that it should be taken lightly.
I think much of the reasoning one hears is: "if it doesn't work out, we could always divorce."
Click to expand...

I'm ashamed to say I was there once. I was engaged to a girl whom I didn't want to marry. Then one day in church I was sat there thinking to myself "We will get married probably have a couple of kids then get divorced" (even having experienced the fallout of divorce twice as a child)

Anyway something happened that morning. All of a sudden a severe anxiety came over me. I broke the engagement that day but have suffered severe anxiety every day ever since that day.

I'd much rather that, than to have got married and then leave a trail of desolation behind me.

I am against divorce but I do feel divorce is an option if it is the last resort.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
...but which will almost invariably lead to having sex. Maybe Hollywood is tainting my opinions but I can't help but to think about the female particularly who insists it's not about sex just to end up having sex (insert roll eyes here).
Click to expand...
Not unless they marry a non-asexual and are willing to compromise, because an asexual person literally has no desire for sex and these people do exist. They're just in the minority. Some are willing to compromise and others want marriages where the other partner feels the same way. (I was still talking about asexuals in that paragraph where I was quoted.)
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I have heard that some believe if your spouse divorces you for reasons other than infidelity you can't remarry until and unless your ex-spouse commits adultery. Which they probably most certainly will (because that's probably why they're leaving--to be with someone else). Sounds good but Paul's personal counsel to us is that in such a case you are not bound to the spouse when they do the leaving, period. (I find it interesting that Paul calls the spouse who does that the unbelieving spouse.)

I think the main argument for that doctrine was that, Biblically, women can't divorce, only the man can initiate a legal divorce. IOW, a woman who leaves her husband isn't divorcing him, because she can't legally do that. She is simply leaving. That being true, the man remains married to her and he can't do anything about it until she commits adultery. What's interesting is, I have NEVER met a person who divorced their spouse who did not leave to be with someone else. AND who did not wait until they remarried to be with that person. Which, IMO, gives lots of weight to why Paul refers to the person who is doing the divorcing/leaving as being the unbelieving spouse.
Click to expand...

That's exactly the conclusion that I arrived at when studying this issue.

I'll add that, in this situation where the unbelieving spouse divorced and commits adultery...that you are not to reconcile with them after that.
 
Wrg1405 said:
I'm ashamed to say I was there once. I was engaged to a girl whom I didn't want to marry. Then one day in church I was sat there thinking to myself "We will get married probably have a couple of kids then get divorced" (even having experienced the fallout of divorce twice as a child)

Anyway something happened that morning. All of a sudden a severe anxiety came over me. I broke the engagement that day but have suffered severe anxiety every day ever since that day.

I'd much rather that, than to have got married and then leave a trail of desolation behind me.

I am against divorce but I do feel divorce is an option if it is the last resort.
Click to expand...
I don't think you should be ashamed at all.
I think you were brave and made the right choice.
Marriage is serious. It's not like dating, except you're married. It's a whole different mind-frame and a person should be ready for this and willing to accept it.

You're in my prayers regarding the anxiety.

Wondering
 
I've always observed this. It may be wrong, but it's my perception. Divorce seems to open the door for acceptability. In my family, from my grandparents on, divorce has not occurred in any generation on either side of my parents lineage. The precedent was set.

We know how it's easier to err when no one's looking, even though we know God knows. It takes tremendous strength and integrity to toe the line all the time. Those are moments, but it applies to big life, too. The shame that divorce would cause in my family would be terrible, because it would be a first and only.

I can see the road paved for someone who's brought up in a broken family. I have to believe it's an easier (not easy) easy-er decision to make. So when we divorce, I believe we're not only contributing to the high rate among Christians, but we cause the potential for more for generations.

There are no doubt many causes for the difference in the divorce rate today than 100 years ago. One of them has got to be divorce being made more acceptable by divorce over time. All these divorcees are likely not going to remain single for the rest of their lives.

This is where a return to traditional family values is integral, from the White House and other nations' leaders on down to the community and down to, behold... the family.
 
Mike said:
I've always observed this. It may be wrong, but it's my perception. Divorce seems to open the door for acceptability. In my family, from my grandparents on, divorce has not occurred in any generation on either side of my parents lineage. The precedent was set.

We know how it's easier to err when no one's looking, even though we know God knows. It takes tremendous strength and integrity to toe the line all the time. Those are moments, but it applies to big life, too. The shame that divorce would cause in my family would be terrible, because it would be a first and only.

I can see the road paved for someone who's brought up in a broken family. I have to believe it's an easier (not easy) easy-er decision to make. So when we divorce, I believe we're not only contributing to the high rate among Christians, but we cause the potential for more for generations.

There are no doubt many causes for the difference in the divorce rate today than 100 years ago. One of them has got to be divorce being made more acceptable by divorce over time. All these divorcees are likely not going to remain single for the rest of their lives.

This is where a return to traditional family values is integral, from the White House and other nations' leaders on down to the community and down to, behold... the family.
Click to expand...
Hi Mike
You hit on such an important point. Everything you say is 100%.
In your family, it would be difficult for there to be divorce because it's known that it would not be accepted. At least, not easily.

I notice that one of the big problems today is that everything is accepted. Nothing about human nature has changed. People were always the same and always did, or desired to do, the same things. What has changed a lot is that these things are accepted by our society. This leads to the infamous slipper slope and things just get worse and worse.

For example, when I was a young girl no one would have thought of living together. The Hollywood stars did this, but they were highly criticized for it. Today, everyone is doing it and it's accepted! It doesn't happen overnight, it takes a long time and a society willing to abandon God and His ways.

Wondering
 
wondering said:
To answer your question, it would be a continual sin if one were to divorce and remarry.
Click to expand...

That being the case what are your thoughts when people who as you say are continually sinning by getting remarried stand before God.
Not being obtuse, just interested to know your thoughts because truth is we will all stand before God.

Everything that is not of faith is a sin. I would say for myself that I lack faith every day in some area, therefore am I continually sinning?

To me, Jesus said that he had to die and go back to the Father so the Holy Spirit would come to convict the world of sin, that sin was/is unbelief in him.

What are your thoughts John 4:1-26. The woman who had five husbands?
What are your thoughts John 8:1-12. The adulterous woman?

In both cases it seems to me that Jesus did not condemn either.

What worries me is that given your view it can heap condemnation.

To the Samaritan who has remarried for reasons other than adultery it could come across "Yes your sins are/have been forgiven but just so you know as you have remarried you are continually sinning" In this case Jesus points to faith in him and that one day we can worship him whoever we are, wherever we are. It's beleiveing in him for salvation.

To the Christian in the same situation of remarrying you are saying the same thing in that, their sin is forgiven but they are continually sinning.

What are your thoughts on 1 Corinthians 6:9 which mentions adulterers?

As I said what worries me is that in either case we can heap condemnation on both scenarios, to the believer we can hinder their faith and fruit and walk, to the non Christian we could hinder them from believing but also bring about a wrong birth in Christ.

As I said I'm not being obtuse but just trying to reconcile your comment with my thoughts.
 
wondering said:
I don't think you should be ashamed at all.
I think you were brave and made the right choice.
Marriage is serious. It's not like dating, except you're married. It's a whole different mind-frame and a person should be ready for this and willing to accept it.

You're in my prayers regarding the anxiety.

Wondering
Click to expand...
Thank you for your kind words and prayers. Not sure I was brave. I think I was a coward in not breaking it off long before that day in church, cause I knew I had to. Part of me thinks that God forced my hand that day with the anxiety. Maybe one day he will heal it. To be honest I've stopped asking for healing and have just accepted it as a thorn in my flesh.

Praise God though he gave me the most beautiful grace filled woman a man could ever want. She is my Eve and beleive it or not she says I'm her Adam. She is my soul mate, she is my life. I have a beautiful wife, 4 amazing kids, I love them with all my heart and soul. That eases the thorn in my flesh.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top