The biblical Description of God
Hi friends,
The doctrine of the Trinity was originally based upon the very best understanding the church fathers could come up with in describing God, the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus, the Son, begnning in the 2nd century on until after the RCC was pushed by Constantine in the 4th century to decide which doctrine to adopt into the annals of the church, between Arianism or the triune Godhead, in which the infighting was fierce. The triune belief system was ratified into the annals of the church in the 5th century, even though both belief systems were/are frought with error.
So let's look closely at how the Word of God describes Himself, vs what the RCC has pushed onto the church for nearly 1,600 years, which will reveal what some of those errors are.
It is hard for me to understand anyone who does not believe that Jesus was/is God. How could it be possible for the Holy Spirit to father/incarnate the pre-incarnated spirit of Jesus, through the virgin Mary, without receiving the deity of God? Lk.1:35. To be empowered to give/baptize with the Holy Spirit to all who receive Him as Lord? Mt.3:11, Mk.1:8, Lk.3:16, Jn.1:33, 3:16, 20:21-22, 1 Jn.3:24 and 1 Jn.4:13. To say nothing of performing 19 noteable miracles of healing the blind, the deaf, people with terminal illness and raising three from the dead? Do you think any ordinary human being could ever do that?
I do not believe in the false doctrine of the trinity, or the oneness theology, either. The following is God's description of Himself, directly from the Scriptures.
First of all, let me assure you that I am fully convinced that you all love the Lord! By the same token, you can be equally certain that I love Him too. With that having been said, the disagreement I have, and seek to correct, are the false teachings that have crept into the Christian Church since the 2nd century A.D.
It is necessary to first properly identify God, whom both Jesus, Paul and John have done, in Jn.4:24 and 2 Cor.3:17-18, Col.1:15 and 1 Jn.4:12, when they identify Him as the Spirit. Secondly, God, who is the Spirit, makes it clear that He is also Holy, in Lev.11:44, and is therefore obviously the HOLY SPIRIT.
In the third place, the fact that God is the Holy Spirit - He is also known as YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, Lord, Almighty God - as well as many other names and titles I will not further enumerate, as they are all quite well known to you all.
In the fourth place, God makes it clear in the OT, He is eternal, that there is no other God but He Himself. "....Before me no God was formed, nor will there be one after me." Isa.43:10. And in another place, "....I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." Isa.44:6. See also Ex.3:14, "I AM WHO I AM." Therefore, the Spirit [Which He was until being incarnated] of the Son, could not have His deity during the OT at all or it would 'break the Scriptures.'
In the fifth place, now that it can be clearly seen from the Word of God, the Spirit of God - is indeed the Holy Spirit. With that having been stated, what about Jesus. Along with misconceptions of who the Holy Spirit is - the most important of all, is the description of Jesus.
Beginning in Proverbs 8, pertaining to the Wisdom of God, I refer specifically to the following portion of it in verses 22 through 36, that clearly identify the pre-incarnated spirit of Jesus Christ, the WHO, of the Wisdom of God. [From the NIV]. The entire 8th chapter of Proverbs is about the wisdom of God; the amenities and the pitfalls, until the 22nd through the 36th vss, which then specifically refer to WHO THE WISDOM OF GOD IS.
"The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deed of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24]
when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. [Vs 24-26]
I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securly the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28]
when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30]
rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind. Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33]
Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-35]. The above reveals the spirit of the pre-incarnated Jesus was created and is therefore not co-eternal with God as the man made Creeds claim and is not found anywhere in the Scriptures.
That Jesus is the Wisdom [Power and knowledge] of God is abundantly clear in 1 Cor.1:24 and Col.2:2-3
From the above, the Word of God clearly reveals the pre-incarnated spirit of Jesus Christ was created and is therefore not 'co-eternal' with the Spirit of God, as God stated clearly in Isa.43:10 and 44:6. The same passage of Scripture also clearly reveals there are two 'personages' involved, not just one. God, whom the Scriptures reveal is the Holy Spirit, and the pre-incarnated Spirit of Jesus Christ. In the KJV, another example of the pre-incarnated Spirit of Jesus being created comes from their translation of Pr.8:22, which reads as follows: "The Lord POSSESSED me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old." In a review of Gen.14:19 and 22, the term POSSESSED in both, means CREATOR, i.e., that God CREATED the heavens and the earth, as well as the pre-incarnated Spirit of Jesus Christ.
To further reinforce the Pr.8:22-36 passage, it can also be seen in Col.1:15, that Jesus was the FIRSTBORN of all creation. And in vs 18, it is written that He is the FIRSTBORN from the dead. Let it be crystal clear, the term, 'FIRSTBORN' means exactly the same in both verses! It means FIRSTBORN, not of everlasting eternity, but rather, as in Pr.8:22, He was brought forth as the first of His works, before the world began. In another place, Jesus said of Himself, He was/is the beginning of God's creation [KJV and NASB].
In the sixth place, when the Holy Spirit of God overpowered the virgin Mary, when she conceived the spirit of that which became the incarnated Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, several things happened: 1. God, who is the Holy Spirit became the Father of Jesus, making the Holy Spirit and the Father one 'personage' [Spirit], Lk.1:35. Fulfilling the prophecy of God in Ps.2:7 and repeated after being fulfilled in Heb.1:5. 2. The incarnated Jesus immediately received the Holy Spirit and His deity together with the power to give the Holy Spirit to whomever He chose. 3. Jesus said, whover believes in him is born again, through the Holy Spirit He gives to those who do, and promises eternal life. Jn.3:16, Mt.3:11, Mk.1:8, Lk.3:16 and Jn.1:33. See also Jn.20:21-22 and 1 Jn.4:13.
At this point, we have now seen, the Spirit of God [The Holy Spirit], is YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, Lord God, God Almighty, etc., etc., etc., and is now also the Father! We have also seen the Father and the Son are two separate entities who are neither co-eternal nor co-equal. Jesus said the Father is greater than He in Jn.14:28 and greater than all in Jn.10:29. Therefore, the Creeds, based upon the doctrine of the Trinity claim, one God consists of the three persons of the Trinity, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. But the Word of God reveal that God, who is the Holy Spirit, is also the Father, who with His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, consist of only two persons, not three, and they are also very separate entities.
Point number seven brings us to the matter of Jesus remarks about He and the Father being one, which many people fail to comprehend and understand - those remarks were all pertaining to the spiritual - and have nothing whatever to do with any kind of physical involvement. He said He and the Father are one in Jn.10:30 and Jn.17:21. What Jesus meant in 17:21, that all we believers become one with He and the Father, as He and the Father are. When you think about that carefully, you realize that we all become a part of the one body of Christ, [And the Father] through belief in Him, receiving His baptism with the Holy Spirit [Mt.3:11; Mk.1:8; Lk.3:16 and Jn.1:33], becoming a born again person [Spiritually], through the one Spirit of God. 1 Cor.12:12-13. But you must understand that we all retain our own physical individual identities, personage, in the very same way the Father and the Son do. Two Personages!
Keep in mind, the Spirit of God dwelt within Jesus when He said, "...When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be AND THAT I DO NOTHING ON MY OWN BUT SPEAK JUST WHAT THE FATHER HAS TAUGHT ME." Jn.8:28. An exact case and point can be found in Lk.22:3, where Satan enters into Judas, who is then controlled by [the spirit who is] Satan, in the same way the Spirit of God controlled what Jesus said and did. But both He and Judas retained their own spirits and individuality.
Point eight is the fact that the apostles in every epistle in the Bible offer greetings to BOTH THE FATHER AND TO JESUS. If they were only one person, it is quite obvious those greetings would all have been different. By the same token, the Holy Spirit is not mentioned in any of those greetings, because the apostles all knew the Father was/is the Holy Spirit.
The ninth point is the fact that the Father and the Son are two separate 'personages.' Which did not take place until the NT, in Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35. The Spirit of God Fathered His only begotten Son. A father and a son are never only one person. Jesus prayed to the Father incessantly, as in the example of Jn.17:1-26. Jesus commended His Spirit to the Father, Lk.23:46 and the Father raised Jesus from the dead, Rom.10:9 and in other places. Jesus ascended and now sits on the right hand of the Father, Heb.10:12 and in other places. For all those who participate in the first resurrection, they are to be priests of God and of Jesus. In the new heaven and earth, both the Father and the Son are present in Rev.21:22-23. Two persons!
Point ten pertains to the literal description of God - in that Jesus stated in Jn.17:3 that the FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD. Clearly inferring that He considered Himself God as well. Otherwise, Jesus would have undoubtedly have said His FATHER IS THE ONY GOD, would He not? By the same token, the Father prophecied by calling His Son, God in Ps.45:6-7. After that was fulfilled, it was repeated in Heb.1:8-9. It is also written that Jesus is the image of the living God. [Though the Father is Pure Spirit, Jesus had a human/physical body that received an imperishable, immortal resurrection body, whose pre-incarnated Spirit was created.. Though there is no question as to Jesus deity, the proper description of God is:
ONE TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST [GOD THE SON], THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
Why is the doctrine of the Trinity in error? Because God is identified as the Holy Spirit, in the Bible, and with that having been established, The Holy Spirit is therefore also the Father of Jesus Christ, also in the Bible. Which means there is one personage consisting of the Holy Spirit, who is also the Father, and the second personage, Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Obviously only two personages, not three. That is also the reason why Mt.28:19 is a verse that was tampered with and added onto [Jesus would never have made such a statement, because He was well aware that His Father is the Holy Spirit, and we are all baptized by Jesus, who gives us the Holy Spirit the instant we believe/recieve Him, as in Acts 2:38, Mt.3:11, Mk.1:8, Lk.3:16, Jn.1:33, 20:21-22 and 1 Jn.4:13]. In the case of 1 Jn.5:7 which is an out and out fraudulant insert, and is not found in any of the most reliable ms.
Let it be clear to all who read the above, I do not hold any animosity whatsoever against the many of you who believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, though it is completely false, as the Scriptures make clear in the above post. In the second place, it has nothing at all to do with our salvation. Therefore, whether we believe in a triune God or not, we can still be brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.
In His love,
Quasar
