In Christianity, Is anybody ever wrong?

[Cnkw3]

What we see in Scripture is the apostles going out, planting churches, staying with them and teaching them, and putting in place appropriate leadership to continue leading and teaching. Some of the letters were written fairly early on, and some containing even earlier sayings, and were passed around from church to church.

So they didnt lay hands on anyone to give them miraculous gifts?

Which "certain individuals"?

Peter, Paul, and others who had received the miraculous working of the Spirit listed in 1 Cor 12. There were gifts of knowledge and discernment, wisdom, etc. How about Stephen..
And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people. Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen. And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
Acts 6:8-10
Where did Stephen get this ability and info? It wasn’t from a book. We do see this..
And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
Acts 6:5-6
Philip too went out preaching and working miracles. Was he reading from a book or did he have miraculous memory through the spirit.
What is the gift of ‘knowledge’ if its not miraculous revelation?

In the context of persecution, yes.

The fact is Jesus promised this to the apostles and not to you.
But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Matthew 10:19-20
It doesn’t matter under what condition they were currently in. Peter wasn’t being persecuted in Acts 2 but I don’t think anyone would doubt that it was the Spirit speaking directly through him.

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus was also speaking directly to the apostles. By your reasoning then, he was not speaking to us. Do you agree?

You are correct.
Lk 24 is another part of the great commission just like Mt 28 and in this text he said…
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luke 24:45-48
This isn’t spoken to us today. You havent been a witness to anything. We aren’t beginning in Jerusalem. Can we learn from it? Absolutely. What did Jesus want preached? His death and resurrection, repentance, and remission of sins (which comes through baptism).
But just because he wasn’t speaking directly to us in the great commission doesn’t mean we cant learn from what he said. There are many other passages that tell Christians to spread the word of God.
Just like in Jn 16. Are we guided into all truth today? Absolutely.
Through a direct miraculous operation of the Spirit? No. When we read what they wrote we too are being guided into all truth.

Do you believe that "perfect" refers to the the NT?

Yes

 

[T. E. Smith]

Yes

"Perfect" can mean complete in NT usage. It could just mean the completion of the New Testament.

 

[XRose]

When is it appropriate to tell someone they are wrong or that they are not adhering to truth?

How should one go about doing that? In Christianity, shouldn’t the Bible and ONLY the Bible be our standard for doctrine and practice? 1 pet 4:11. Col 3:17
If someone is practicing doctrine that cannot be found in the NT; Is that wrong? If not, why not?
For example…
You have Baptist and many other Denoms teaching that you MUST tithe if you want to be faithful to God. That is not a NT doctrine; so am I a bad person if I tell you that you are wrong?
You have other Denoms sprinkling babies for baptism. That is not a NT doctrine; so am I wrong if I point that out and tell you that you need to stop and get it right?

If a person can afford to tithe let them tithe.
It falls under the lesson of the man and wife who lied about the proceeds of the sale of land and died on the spot.

 

[XRose]

It's never appropriate to tell another they are wrong because someone does not agree with them as sometimes we find that we were actually wrong. It's better to say "I do not agree with you and then the two of you can discuss with using scripture that of the differences of your understandings.

TOS
1.1: Grant others the courtesy to be understood and acknowledge their views. As best as one is capable, speak truth in love.; ( Mathew 7:12, 1 Corinthians 13:1-13)

1.3: Use self control and focus on reconciliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

1.4: Do not misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16)

Is it derogatory to state that a tare must be uprooted and burned or a little bit of bad leaven be scooped out of the flour before it leavens the whole lot?

 

[T. E. Smith]

Is it derogatory to state that a tare must be uprooted and burned or a little bit of bad leaven be scooped out of the flour before it leavens the whole lot?

To say that a specific member should be torn up and burned to oblivion is in fact a rude and derogatory thing to say. Actually, it sounds more than anything like a threat of violence.

Also calling someone a "rabid dog" is derogatory too. Hopefully I don't need to go into great detail to explain why.

 

[XRose]

To say that a specific member should be torn up and burned to oblivion is in fact a rude and derogatory thing to say. Actually, it sounds more than anything like a threat of violence.

Also calling someone a "rabid dog" is derogatory too. Hopefully I don't need to go into great detail to explain why.

I'll ignore Psalm 26:4 and quote the words of Jesus : Matthew 10:14
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

You have nothing but a worse fate than befell Sodom and Gomorrha.

It is a Christian act to try correct a pagan's false beliefs - at least once.

The fact you feel offended at Jesus's words shows you shouldn't be on this forum.

 

[T. E. Smith]

The fact you feel offended at Jesus's words shows you shouldn't be on this forum.

Sure.

It is a Christian act to try correct a pagan's false beliefs - at least once.

Hey, your post isn't making me any more receptive to Christianity, to say the least.

 

[eddif]

God told Noah to build an ark. Are you currently building one like God instructed? I mean…how can God put something in his book for all to read if its not specifically directed to everyone? He told Abraham to sacrifice his son. Was that for you? He told Saul to go into Damascus and wait for further instructions. Are you on your way to Damascus. He told the apostles in Acts 1 to wait in Jerusalem for the Spirit. Is that for you? We are instructed to “rightly divide the word of truth”. It appears you don’t do that.

In Christ we avoid the destruction of the ungodly.

Might as well wait where you are for the Spirit. It is Jesus who does the baptizing.

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

Is it derogatory to state that a tare must be uprooted and burned or a little bit of bad leaven be scooped out of the flour before it leavens the whole lot?

I feel Matthew 13:24-30 explains what Jesus said about letting the tares grow up with the wheat as if one takes up the tares(false teachings) they might also pluck up some of the wheat (true teachings). Let them grow together so we can search out truth from error. 1 John 4:1-6

Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

In Matthew 16:6-12 Jesus compared the false teachings of the Pharisees, Sadducees and Herodians to leaven. The Pharisees had come to test Jesus, but Jesus perceived their true intent and state of their hearts. Jesus later warned His Disciples against being taken in by their teachings, which He compared to leaven. The leaven having a show of piety without true holiness is like leaven in that it gradually increases and spreads corruption, puffing up a person with vanity.

 

[for_his_glory]

To say that a specific member should be torn up and burned to oblivion is in fact a rude and derogatory thing to say. Actually, it sounds more than anything like a threat of violence.

Also calling someone a "rabid dog" is derogatory too. Hopefully I don't need to go into great detail to explain why.

XRose was not talking about any members as wheat and tares mean true and false teachings that the tares will be burned up, meaning those who teach another gospel as they have no truth found in them.

 

[T. E. Smith]

XRose was not talking about any members as wheat and tares mean true and false teachings that the tares will be burned up, meaning those who teach another gospel as they have no truth found in them.

wrong. She did not say my teaching was a tare. She said I was a tare. She did not say my teaching should be torn and burned; she said I should be torn and burned. She did not say my teaching was a rabid dog; she said I was a rabid dog. Apologies if I take offense!

 

[for_his_glory]

Sure.

Hey, your post isn't making me any more receptive to Christianity, to say the least.

It takes more than just quoting scripture, but to actually understand it. Even Satan can quote the whole Bible, but yet without any truth found in him.

 

[T. E. Smith]

It takes more than just quoting scripture, but to actually understand it.

Having been on this forum for a couple months now, I see this all the time.

 

[for_his_glory]

wrong. She did not say my teaching was a tare. She said I was a tare. She did not say my teaching should be torn and burned; she said I should be torn and burned. She did not say my teaching was a rabid dog; she said I was a rabid dog. Apologies if I take offense!

Let it go T.E as XRose never mentioned you, but only talking about the parable of the tares and the wheat. Please do not get offended as you are only reading into something that is not there.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Let it go T.E as XRose never mentioned you, but only talking about the parable of the tares and the wheat. Please do not get offended as you are only reading into something that is not there.

False, she mentioned me by name and the direct word "you". She also mentioned another member by name simply because he also indicated he was not a Christian. I'm happy to let it go once you understand the situation as it truly is. If XRose did not mean to refer to me specifically (though I'm sure she did) then she needs to watch her wording a lot more carefully.

 

[for_his_glory]

Having been on this forum for a couple months now, I see this all the time.

We all have as I have been here for eleven years now, and other forums before this one. Many have understanding and many do not. It's up to each individual to seek out truth. I have been wrong many times in my understanding and I thank God He gave me others to correct me when I error.

 

[for_his_glory]

False, she mentioned me by name and the direct word "you". She also mentioned another member by name simply because he also indicated he was not a Christian. I'm happy to let it go once you understand the situation as it truly is. If XRose did not mean to refer to me specifically (though I'm sure she did) then she needs to watch her wording a lot more carefully.

Please do not argue it here. You would be better off to PM her and talk about resolving this issue you have with her. If need be invite me into the PM.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Please do not argue it here. You would be better off to PM her and talk about resolving this issue you have with her. If need be invite me into the PM.

No, I've made everything clear. It's documented over in the thread for anyone who wants to see.

 

[for_his_glory]

This answer is really pretty easy but then I could write for an hour on it. The easy answer is found in the great commission. When Jesus gave the great commission he told the apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel; he that believes AND is baptized shall be saved.
So, who did Jesus declare the saved were going to be?
Those that heard the gospel, believed it and were baptized. He said this I didnt. Now you can believe it or not. If what he said was correct we should see evidence of it. And, to no surprise…..We do!
The first gospel sermon in acts just a few days later we see the gospel preached, people believed it and were then told to repent, be baptized in order to remove sins (be saved). Then at the end of the chapter we find this…
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Acts 2:47
The Lord does the adding, we don’t. Who was he adding? The saved. Who did he declare saved? Those who had believed and were Baptized Just as he promised. And not before baptism but after. 2:41
He was adding them to the church which is his body. Eph 1:22,23
There is only one body. Eph 4:4
It is the body/church of Christ. Eph 4:12
He is the savior of the Body. Eph 5:23
He redeemed/purchased the body/church with his own blood. Ac 20:28
How does one get into Christ or into his body/church? Baptism. Rom 6:2,3; 1 Cor 12:13; Gal 3:27
When we look at the conversions in acts they all follow this same pattern. It is what Jesus commanded and promised.
So, show me someone under the New covenant that was declared saved riding down the road saying some prayer? Saul would be the closest but even he was not saved on the road.
Or laying on there bed praying. The closest there would probably be Cornelius, but he wasn’t saved on his bed. It’s not there.


Your feelings or experience doesn’t validate salvation. You can “feel’ saved but it doesn’t mean you are. God declares who the saved will be and we all have to meet his conditions and I just showed you what he has prescribed. Now you can believe it or not. That is called “faith”. Faith comes by hearing and hearing from the word of God. Everything I have presented today is from book chapter and verse and does not contradict clear NT teaching. If it does you or anyone else is free to show me.

I bet you can now guess the answer to that one. I did what he prescribed in his plan. i heard the gospel preached, I believed it, repented of my past sins and was baptized in order to be saved. He is the one who has promised to add me to his church/body if I comply with those conditions (But not before). He has made no such promise to anyone else. People will always bring up the easy passages like Jn 3:16. But those passages don’t contradict clear teaching elsewhere. The fact is….Those that “Believe” will be saved. Why? Because true Bible believers will follow through in obedience to the conditions Jesus has prescribed. Most don’t though.
We see true believers in acts 2:37. They were cut to heart (belief) and asked….what shall we do.
Most think their little mental belief exercise and prayer will save them but Jesus NEVER SAID IT WOULD under his new will and Testament.
I think you for your questions.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[for_his_glory]

No, I've made everything clear. It's documented over in the thread for anyone who wants to see.

It's finished as I told you to talk to her in PM. If you keep derailing this thread you will be banned from it.