As stated, I made everything clear. So it needs no more discussion and I will drop it.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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In Christianity, Is anybody ever wrong?
- Thread starter Cnkw3
- Start date
Thank you.
Predictable . No passive aggression in this. Lol!
I agree. I think it does mean that which is complete. He was speaking about the total revelation all would have after it was complete or had become perfect.
The point is….different denominations bind tithing on their members. Tithing is not a NT doctrine. We are to give as we have prospered. 1 Cor 16. If you want to give 10% go ahead. Want to give more. Want to give less. It is free will giving and not tithing. These preachers just want their money.
No. It was Jesus that commanded men to GO and Baptize. That is why after that commission we see men baptizing believers throughout the NT.
Sorry. Dont understand. I’m also a little slow so provide an explanation please.
I don't think you're slow at all.
Are you sure?
Ezekiel 36:25-27 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
This is prophecy right? so applicable for future right? But looking back even Moses sprinkled with water . A Sprinkling of water is what the Power of the Most High would leave upon a vessel when present over. Dew is neither a submerging or pouring upon. It was the mode chosen by the Most High every morning when present above His Hebrew people and the Ark of the old covenant. When the Power of the Most High overshadows the mode is sprinkling. So what do you mean not in the NT? You don't know the mode of Overshadowing?
Not to mention Hebrews 9:19 19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you.” 21 And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood.
Of course we have the completion -The blood of the Lamb, the final sacrifice. But this does not make void sprinkling of water , it simply makes the act of sprinkling water in union with HIS blood. Sprinkling is not forbidden . Who baptized the mother of Christ?
1 Corinthians 10:
1 Corinthians 10
1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea ; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ . . .11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
In the morning dew fell upon the camp and manna in the evening. I think you get what happen with the Elect mother. Christ did not come to abolish ,He is the Law and the prophets.
The word "baptize" in Greek literally means to immerse. Baptize is a transliteration, and an unhelpful one that excludes the meaning
Page 1.
Not wholly and completely. And the scriptural verses I shared are pretty clear. But for sure with every applied act of salvation in participation by faith, we are immersed in the Power of the Living God. Sounds like you have some personal gripes with a particular group of people to me.
There is much debate and discussion concerning the proper application of baptism. Primarily the PROTESTANTS have a problem with all forms outside of immersion. I find that funny, reason being these same protestants will also say , water baptism is not a necessary part of salvation. To them it is simply a work of the flesh. They have much of the same argument toward the Eucharist. Anyway, that is rubbish! The works of the flesh are just that, works done before you believe in Jesus Christ-our Grace, Mercy and salvation. The bible addresses two types of works ;( Faith and Works), and (works outside of the faith) which non believers perform, they can not save a man no matter how good they appear. Any work done outside of Christ in whom God the Father has given for us to know Him, is outside of the grace in salvation.
Sprinkling Water
Numbers 19:13
'Anyone who touches a corpse, the body of a man who has died, and does not purify himself, defiles the tabernacle of the LORD; and that person shall be cut off from Israel Because the water for impurity was not sprinkled on him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is still on him.
Any other religion today is considered a corpse , and the sprinkling of water (IN FAITH) will cleanse of that impurity.
Hebrews 9:19
For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
For today the faithful do not use the blood of animals but those saved in the BLOOD OF THE LAMB sprinkle the purifying waters of FAITH upon the people in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
It is funny how protestants will say concessions are made if there is no water. But a water available for sprinkling none is made. They gag at gnats and swallow camels.
Hebrews 10:22
let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
Numbers 19:18
'A clean person shall take hyssop and dip it in the water, and sprinkle it on the tent and on all the furnishings and on the persons who were there, and on the one who touched the bone or the one slain or the one dying naturally or the grave.
The clean person is the one ANOINTED by the Christ in the order of Melchizedek and they may baptize through sprinkling, pouring and immersion. All three are acceptable applications . NO (application), is the only thing rejected. All God's words come back to Him fruitful. Even if there is no water God will provide for He is no hypocrite and what He says he upholds.
Isaiah 55:10-12
…10For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, 11so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it. 12You will indeed go out with joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.…
Continued.........
Page 2.
Two arguments for water baptism not being a necessary part of salvation by protestants: the thief on the cross and that some received the Holy Spirit before water baptism. First: since it is clear that God is no hypocrite and His word comes back to Him prosperous , God provided the water for the thief on the cross. When Christ's side was pierced both blood and water spewed forth and a tempest rose- a great violent rain storm and earthquake which the graves gave up the dead! ALL men were baptized BY GOD in this rain at Christ completed work on the cross. Those who died before Christ's coming and the thief on the cross received this anointing cleansing water. GOD'S WORD IS BOND and is TRUST WORTHY AND TRUE!
The oldest biblical reference to the crucifixion darkness is found in the Gospel of Mark, written around the year 70. In its account of the crucifixion, on the eve of Passover, it says that after Jesus was crucified at nine in the morning; darkness fell over all the land, or all the world (Greek: γῆν, translit. gēn can mean either) from around noon ("the sixth hour") until 3 o'clock ("the ninth hour").It adds, immediately after the death of Jesus, that "the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom".
The Gospel of Matthew has an almost identical wording: "From noon on, darkness came over the whole land [or, earth] until three in the afternoon." The author includes dramatic details, including an earthquake and the raising of the dead, which were also common motifs in Jewish apocalyptic literature: "The earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised." The Rocks splitting is a nod to Moses . He splitting the rock with his staff and water coming forth. point is all were baptized by Christ who rose from the dead.
Further verses which support sprinkling,
Ezekiel 36:25
"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
Numbers 8:7
"Thus you shall do to them, for their cleansing: sprinkle purifying water on them, and let them use a razor over their whole body and wash their clothes, and they will be clean. I know protestants would hope Catholics throughout the centuries would not have a legit baptism but they do. Legit doctrine is a must and must not be based on hatred toward a brother, and a denial of their actions in faith.
As for those who received the Holy Spirit anointing of fire in the form of tongues before water baptism, that happened as a proof from God to convince Peter and the Jews that the gentile too was worthy to be part of the house of Israel . After Peter said "can anyone refuse the water to baptize these people". God had to give the Jews a little push because Peter was a Jew for the Jews and wanted to reject the gentile's admission as did the other Jews with Peter , but God said not so! "They who were not my people shall be My people , and in the very place where it is said they are NOT a people, they shall be called the Son's of God! " They who are not , will be- and God shall call them His Beloved.
The Gentiles Receive the Holy Spirit Acts 10:46-48
…46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God. Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.…
POINT: water baptism is necessary, and God expects obedience to this. And it is more than taking a bath, if it weren't then all bath taking would be sanctifying. It is prompted by the Holy Spirit and is in the Holy Spirit and is righteous obedience to God the Father, making us friends of God.
POURING WATER: Isaiah 44:3
'For I will pour out water on the thirsty land And streams on the dry ground; I will pour out My Spirit on your offspring And My blessing on your descendants;
We are the thirsty land and ground which needs blessing.
1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.
Genesis 35:14
Jacob set up a pillar in the place where He had spoken with him, a pillar of stone, and he poured out a drink offering on it; he also poured oil on it.
1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
Ephesians 2:22
And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit.
In Christ ,and God in us, we are the temple of God and the cleansing water is upon us. Upon us is poured the drink offering and anointing oil.
You are God's Temple 1 Corinthians 3:16-17
16Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.…
Joel 2:28
"It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions.
His Spirit is in both water and fire, That is why John came baptizing in the holy Spirit. The deeper refinement come with fire and that engraves God's name upon the head/mind.
Isaiah 12:3
3 With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.
To draw water is to use a container and then you would pour it out.
Then there is IMMERSION obviously an acceptable means of baptism , if a tub or lake , or river be available do it.
POINT : ALL MEANS ARE ACCEPTABLE.
BAPTIZO:
I want to address the Baptizo (Baptism) claim a little more deeply, hope you have your scuba gear. LOL! The Protestant sects say that other methods are invalid. Yet other methods have been used among various denominations like Orthodox and RCC. This primarily Based on a "Born Again" movement which only became part of Protestantism in the 20th century.
The popular notion of being born again may be traced to evangelical churches, commencing in the mid 1960's, during which decade, a counter-culture developed among US Christians, just as it did among the broader population. By the mid 1970's, political, entertainment, business and sports figures began to self-identify as "born again." Some familiar names are among them; Charles Coulson (wrote the book, Born Again), Jimmy Carter, Johnny Cash. Later, Tim Tebow, Chuck Norris. Curiously, George Wallace who claimed that the experience of being "born again," caused him to repudiate his earlier support of racial segregation. Eventually, the concept jumped the pond and spread among European Christian constituents.
These people tend to reject all prior teachings as false. They believe they set the pace and ignore thousands of years of experience throughout Christian history, which attest to many forms of baptism, and is supported by the Word of God. They say Orthodox are not saved and RC's are not saved and even many Protestant sects who deploy various forms of baptism are not saved. I say that is not nice or showing brotherly love. They make ridiculous arguments which state baptism by water is not necessary as part of the act in salvation, yet calls everyone's baptism outside of their sect's- invalid.
They teach that it is the least of doctrine to keep. You have read what the word says about that. Whoever teaches as least, His commandments will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. They make concessions only for their own arguments and condemn everyone else. They make concessions for people who may have no water on hand but not for those with a jug of water, a cup of water etc..... if there is no lake or tub for immersion no concession will be made.
Woes to Scribes and Pharisees Matthew 23:23-25
…23Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.…
Does the word baptism (Baptizo) mean immersion or sprinkling?
Definition
Two arguments for water baptism not being a necessary part of salvation by protestants: the thief on the cross and that some received the Holy Spirit before water baptism. First: since it is clear that God is no hypocrite and His word comes back to Him prosperous , God provided the water for the thief on the cross. When Christ's side was pierced both blood and water spewed forth and a tempest rose- a great violent rain storm and earthquake which the graves gave up the dead! ALL men were baptized BY GOD in this rain at Christ completed work on the cross. Those who died before Christ's coming and the thief on the cross received this anointing cleansing water. GOD'S WORD IS BOND and is TRUST WORTHY AND TRUE!
The oldest biblical reference to the crucifixion darkness is found in the Gospel of Mark, written around the year 70. In its account of the crucifixion, on the eve of Passover, it says that after Jesus was crucified at nine in the morning; darkness fell over all the land, or all the world (Greek: γῆν, translit. gēn can mean either) from around noon ("the sixth hour") until 3 o'clock ("the ninth hour").It adds, immediately after the death of Jesus, that "the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom".
The Gospel of Matthew has an almost identical wording: "From noon on, darkness came over the whole land [or, earth] until three in the afternoon." The author includes dramatic details, including an earthquake and the raising of the dead, which were also common motifs in Jewish apocalyptic literature: "The earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised." The Rocks splitting is a nod to Moses . He splitting the rock with his staff and water coming forth. point is all were baptized by Christ who rose from the dead.
Further verses which support sprinkling,
Ezekiel 36:25
"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
Numbers 8:7
"Thus you shall do to them, for their cleansing: sprinkle purifying water on them, and let them use a razor over their whole body and wash their clothes, and they will be clean. I know protestants would hope Catholics throughout the centuries would not have a legit baptism but they do. Legit doctrine is a must and must not be based on hatred toward a brother, and a denial of their actions in faith.
As for those who received the Holy Spirit anointing of fire in the form of tongues before water baptism, that happened as a proof from God to convince Peter and the Jews that the gentile too was worthy to be part of the house of Israel . After Peter said "can anyone refuse the water to baptize these people". God had to give the Jews a little push because Peter was a Jew for the Jews and wanted to reject the gentile's admission as did the other Jews with Peter , but God said not so! "They who were not my people shall be My people , and in the very place where it is said they are NOT a people, they shall be called the Son's of God! " They who are not , will be- and God shall call them His Beloved.
The Gentiles Receive the Holy Spirit Acts 10:46-48
…46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God. Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.…
POINT: water baptism is necessary, and God expects obedience to this. And it is more than taking a bath, if it weren't then all bath taking would be sanctifying. It is prompted by the Holy Spirit and is in the Holy Spirit and is righteous obedience to God the Father, making us friends of God.
POURING WATER: Isaiah 44:3
'For I will pour out water on the thirsty land And streams on the dry ground; I will pour out My Spirit on your offspring And My blessing on your descendants;
We are the thirsty land and ground which needs blessing.
1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.
Genesis 35:14
Jacob set up a pillar in the place where He had spoken with him, a pillar of stone, and he poured out a drink offering on it; he also poured oil on it.
1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
Ephesians 2:22
And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit.
In Christ ,and God in us, we are the temple of God and the cleansing water is upon us. Upon us is poured the drink offering and anointing oil.
You are God's Temple 1 Corinthians 3:16-17
16Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.…
Joel 2:28
"It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions.
His Spirit is in both water and fire, That is why John came baptizing in the holy Spirit. The deeper refinement come with fire and that engraves God's name upon the head/mind.
Isaiah 12:3
3 With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.
To draw water is to use a container and then you would pour it out.
Then there is IMMERSION obviously an acceptable means of baptism , if a tub or lake , or river be available do it.
POINT : ALL MEANS ARE ACCEPTABLE.
BAPTIZO:
I want to address the Baptizo (Baptism) claim a little more deeply, hope you have your scuba gear. LOL! The Protestant sects say that other methods are invalid. Yet other methods have been used among various denominations like Orthodox and RCC. This primarily Based on a "Born Again" movement which only became part of Protestantism in the 20th century.
The popular notion of being born again may be traced to evangelical churches, commencing in the mid 1960's, during which decade, a counter-culture developed among US Christians, just as it did among the broader population. By the mid 1970's, political, entertainment, business and sports figures began to self-identify as "born again." Some familiar names are among them; Charles Coulson (wrote the book, Born Again), Jimmy Carter, Johnny Cash. Later, Tim Tebow, Chuck Norris. Curiously, George Wallace who claimed that the experience of being "born again," caused him to repudiate his earlier support of racial segregation. Eventually, the concept jumped the pond and spread among European Christian constituents.
These people tend to reject all prior teachings as false. They believe they set the pace and ignore thousands of years of experience throughout Christian history, which attest to many forms of baptism, and is supported by the Word of God. They say Orthodox are not saved and RC's are not saved and even many Protestant sects who deploy various forms of baptism are not saved. I say that is not nice or showing brotherly love. They make ridiculous arguments which state baptism by water is not necessary as part of the act in salvation, yet calls everyone's baptism outside of their sect's- invalid.
They teach that it is the least of doctrine to keep. You have read what the word says about that. Whoever teaches as least, His commandments will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. They make concessions only for their own arguments and condemn everyone else. They make concessions for people who may have no water on hand but not for those with a jug of water, a cup of water etc..... if there is no lake or tub for immersion no concession will be made.
Woes to Scribes and Pharisees Matthew 23:23-25
…23Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.…
Does the word baptism (Baptizo) mean immersion or sprinkling?
Definition
- to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)to cleanse by dipping or submerging,
- to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe (there are many ways described in the OT to perform ceremonial washing, and not all are full body immersion.) Hence all the sprinkling.
- to overwhelm (to overwhelm can mean to pour water over ones head).
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Dorothy Mae
Member
The above long answer with its many passage quotes did not answer my question at all. I asked WHO (which means you need to give names) was declared (past tense) already saved? Please answer this question as asked. Not a theory or theology but the names of who.
Second, how did God declare you „now saved?” Since you insist your feelings don’t matter, how do you know you are saved? This isn’t meant to pry but in order for us to know why you think our feelings don’t matter, we need to know what does matter to you.
You answered:
I bet you can now guess the answer to that one. I did what he prescribed in his plan. i heard the gospel preached, I believed it, repented of my past sins and was baptized in order to be saved. He is the one who has promised to add me to his church/body if I comply with those conditions (But not before). He has made no such promise to anyone else.
Me: No, I couldn’t begin to
have guessed. I seriously doubt you are the only one he made those promises to, you should know. The above is not an answer to how God declared it to
you. This is more you telling you that you are saved by using scripture legally. Do you see the difference? If you want to know I know I am his I can tell you.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Yes, she is. She says I need to
be open which says I’m closed which is untrue. I know you are powerful but sentences that take this form “you are or need to be” followed by an uncomplimentary adjective is an attack on the person’s character. It’s not discussing the post, but the poster.
Yes, absolutely. No question.
Yes, “we should be open” is perfectly acceptable. Did she include herself in that statement?No, she said “you” not “we.” I am perfectly open to being wrong, dear Stovebolts. I’m also very interested in what others think particularly if it’s different. One learns little from like minds.
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Yes. It was prophecy for Israel who was in captivity. The Lord promised to bring them out of captivity and back into their land.
Vs 24. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
This prophecy was fulfilled.
For their future. not yours.
Everything you just mentioned is in the OT not the new. So that is what I mean by ”sprinkling” not being a NT doctrine.
Again. Heb 9 was describing what took place under the old law. That law has been removed and replaced.
Nothing you just posted has anything to do with sprinkling as the NT mode of baptism. The baptism into Moses was an immersion. Walls of water on both side with clouds of water above. They were completely covered by water as they walked through the Red Sea on dry ground. That is the picture he is painting. All in the OT.
In the NT it is your heart that is sprinkled but your body is washed.
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hebrews 10:22
Why is it pure water? Because it is connected with the blood of Jesus.
John the Baptist came baptizing and it was an immersion. He baptized where there was “much water”. Jesus went down into the water and came up out of it. He was immersed. The Eunuch in Acts 8 went down into the water with Philip. NT baptism is described in Rom 6 as being buried with Christ. Planted! Being raised with him. This is all describing an immersion. Not sprinkling.
This is what happens when people cling to the OT for their doctrine. But Hebrews specifically states…..
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hebrews 10:9
stovebolts
Member
I think you are taking her words the wrong way. I know you two have a rub. You can continue in this spirit of division, or you can garnish the spirit of reconciliation. It’s your choice. She starts out by saying she is not attacking your character, so that gives you her intent. By saying she is is analogous to calling her a liar.
For example, you could have as easily said,
“I understand that you are not attacking my character intentionally, and I want you to know that I am open. However, when you write in that manner toward me, it feels like you are attacking my character”.
This type of writing works toward reconciliation.
Both of you are good hearted people, and I know you will receive this with thought.
Grace and peace.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Can I not ask her to refrain from “you are…uncomplimentary adjective” which she has done in private as well or “you need to be” adjective which implies I lack in character? Can’t I ask her to stop
doing that but focus on my words?
She has in the past in various posts said opposite statements that are mutually exclusive. These are not addressed to me at all, btw. She’s says she believes or thinks xyz and then proceeded to say immediately that which indicates the opposite. She, for sure, is not lying and I am not saying that. But why can I not say I’m open and that equally accepted as me not lying? I am open. I can, of course, simply say that I am not (uncomplimentary adjective) and equally expect to be fully believed.
I am perfectly willing to use the above formula. Would that then be accepted without protest?
Thank you dear Stovebolts. I accept the terms and will endeavor to respond as you suggest.
So you are not going to deal with anything I said. Did I misuse scripture? Did I take things out of context? What? You should be able to highlight why its all wrong. Instead you want to imply that I am stupid and cant read. This is so typical and perfect for this thread. I answered your question exactly as asked and that is still not good enough for you. You asked….”who” is declared saved. The word “who” is not singular. It can mean one or many people. You DID NOT say…give me a name of someone declared saved. Did you?
If you are a Christian then I’m sure you have heard a sermon on Jn 3:16…
For God so loved the World that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life.
I have heard many and every time the preacher always says…you can put your name where the word “world“ is!
It would now say that God so loved (insert name). God didnt do that but all these preachers say you can.
Dorothy, do you believe that? Do you believe that an individual can insert his or her name into Jn 3:16? I haven’t met a Christian yet that would say no. If you honestly answer that question you will have the answer to the question you asked me.
So, if you can put your name there in Jn 3:16 then why cant you insert name into MK 16:15,16? The obvious answer is…there is no reason why you cant, but actually you should do that very thing.
Go preach the gospel to every creature (insert name) If He (inset same name) believes and is baptized (insert name) will be saved.
If you want some proper name given in the Bible I would give you Paul. I don’t think you would deny that he was saved. The important question is…At what point was he saved? If you study it you will find that it mirrors what i mentioned in previous post from MK 16. Jesus declared him “saved” at the point of complete obedience.
I would also say the jailor in Acts 16 but it does not give his name. He was told to believe on the Lord and he would be saved. He was then preached to. He repented, he was immediately immersed in water and THEN after all that the text calls him a believer which would mean he was declared saved. Vs 34. Declared saved AFTER obedience culminating in water baptIsm not before.
I think its funny how difficult you people ( should I insert a name there?) can be sometimes. Never satisfied with a sound Biblical answer you just want to argue.
Dorothy Mae
Member
“Who was declared saved” means what scripture says xzy is now saved. Is there a single scripture that says anyone is already saved? That was my obvious question. I wasn’t asking what scriptures PROMISE salvation in the future if you do XYZ which is known by all Christians.
That is known by all Christians,
but none of that is what I asked for. I didn’t ask for promises of FUTURE salvation.
No, I am asking if anyone in the whole of the New Testament had your theology in mind. It’s a kind of legal read the scripture where you fill in your name as you like and all the attached promises are yours in a legal kind of manner. Did anyone writing the NT say that if themselves or another that they fulfilled those requirements and are therefore saved?
Cnkw3 did answer your question about how he was saved at the end of his post #138. Maybe it wasn't the answer you were looking for, but I see that he answered sufficiently.