In what year was Revelations written

[Matthew24:34]

I am still trying to understand both points, similar to evolution when it was decided that evolution was right, people went back to prove it. There was total belief in the theory The theory was created before the evidence. arn't we doing the same thing here. If we have decided that the second coming happened in 70AD, we are now aligning history to our beliefs. The similar argument lies with the futurist. Why dont we just check the Bible first without any belief structure or theory in place and then analize and see if anything matches it. If Revelations was written before 70AD then could someone please explain to me as a 1st century person what they should have looked out for. I would like to put myself in their shoes in their time. Did the letters recieve the first Churches and the rest of revelation? If so what was there response to it as many lived outside the walls of Jerusalem? Was their an historian that wrote anything about it? Did the gentiles have bibles to read from and to take heed as to what was going to happen? Were the gospels in print so that the people of Jerusalem could look out for the signs? Or was it the elect disciples that through word of mouth preached the Gospel? If the gospel was known throughout the world did the disciples travel around the globe in a short period of time? Why arn't there relects or notes of these visits on other continents? In China there are symbols of Noahs Ark, yet nothing of first century Christianity, Why? These are genuine questions that I feel the average Christian needs answered in order to make a judgement on end time prophecy. I apologise there are so many preterest questions, but there just seem to be!

I pray to God that he may lead me in the right direction that will lead to the fullfillment of his word.

Ed the Ned: As a full preterist, I appreciate your questions. I wonder, however, since you plainly indicted futurists as well, why you have no specific questions for them? For example, why does Jesus always use the expression "this generation" to mean His contemporaries (20 times!) in every passage except in those found in His Olivet Discourse--according to futurists? What precedent do futurists have for changing the meaning?

Why do futurists consistently ignore or redefine the numerous plain time indicators in the NT? Why does near mean far and why does soon mean later--much later--to them? Why do they make "we" in the NT mean "us?" Why do they read "you" to mean us? Why do they so often ignore the context and audience relevance of NT passages?

Ed the Ned, it would help if you would address some specific Bible passage or verse that you would like explained. I'm not quite sure what you are asking. Thanks!

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

 

[whirlwind]

Then again, how old was John? Was he a contemporary of Jesus? About the same age? If he was around 30 or so when Jesus died, add 66 years to that for the late date. John would have been 96. Pretty old to be told -

Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Last time I checked, 96 y/o people aren't exactly running marathons at that point in life. Lol. Heck, maybe he was even older than 30 when he was with Jesus! Maybe he was 38! or 40! LOL. ;) :D

John did prophesy before many and continues to do so....all the way to the end of this age.

Revelation 1:11 Saying, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and what thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

The seven churches, #7 meaning spiritual completeness, represent all believers in the world. If you lay the churches of those named places out on paper you see they are in a circle....they are symbolic of the world. John prophesies to the world through the written Word.

 

[researcher]

Then again, how old was John? Was he a contemporary of Jesus? About the same age? If he was around 30 or so when Jesus died, add 66 years to that for the late date. John would have been 96. Pretty old to be told -

Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Last time I checked, 96 y/o people aren't exactly running marathons at that point in life. Lol. Heck, maybe he was even older than 30 when he was with Jesus! Maybe he was 38! or 40! LOL. ;) :D

John did prophesy before many and continues to do so....all the way to the end of this age.

Revelation 1:11 Saying, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and what thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

The seven churches, #7 meaning spiritual completeness, represent all believers in the world. If you lay the churches of those named places out on paper you see they are in a circle....they are symbolic of the world. John prophesies to the world through the written Word.

:gah :biglaugh

Check:

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ,
Rom 1:7 to all that are in Rome, beloved of God,

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle...
1Co 1:2 unto the church of God which is at Corinth,

1Th 1:1 Paul ... unto the church of the Thessalonians

Jas 1:1 James... to the twelve tribes which are of the Dispersion

1Pe 1:1 Peter, ... to the elect who are sojourners of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia:

Standard practice to address the churches by the name of the city/nation of those times etc.

Rev 2:13 I know where thou dwellest, even where Satan's throne is; and thou holdest fast my name, and didst not deny my faith, even in the days of Antipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the works of the Nicolaitans

Was there an Antipas? And the Nicolaitans? They taught that eating food sacrificed to idols was OK. But that was 1st century. Literally sacrificing food to idols isn't done today (at least not in the civilized part of the world. :P )

 

[researcher]

The Historical Evidence for Revelation having been written after A.D. 90

Irenaeus states that John, who wrote The Apocalypse beheld the apocalyptic vision towards the end of Domitian's reign. Domitian reigned from A.D. 81 until his death in A.D. 96. Although "toward the end of Domintian's reign may not have been in 96, it was surely later than 90.

Irenaeus said Jesus was 50 years old when he died. Lol. oops, got that one wrong by a stretch. :o :o

Against Heresies
"Chapter XXII.â€â€The thirty Æons are not typified by the fact that Christ was baptized in His thirtieth year: He did not suffer in the twelfth month after His baptism, but was more than fifty years old when He died."
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iii.xxiii.html


Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

Irenaeus' dating of Revelation can be trusted about as much as his supposed age of Jesus can be! :o :bigfrown ;) :yes

 

[Matthew24:34]

The Historical Evidence for Revelation having been written after A.D. 90

Irenaeus states that John, who wrote The Apocalypse beheld the apocalyptic vision towards the end of Domitian's reign. Domitian reigned from A.D. 81 until his death in A.D. 96. Although "toward the end of Domintian's reign may not have been in 96, it was surely later than 90.

Irenaeus said Jesus was 50 years old when he died. Lol. oops, got that one wrong by a stretch. :o :o

Against Heresies
"Chapter XXII.â€â€The thirty Æons are not typified by the fact that Christ was baptized in His thirtieth year: He did not suffer in the twelfth month after His baptism, but was more than fifty years old when He died."
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iii.xxiii.html


Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

Irenaeus' dating of Revelation can be trusted about as much as his supposed age of Jesus can be! :o :bigfrown ;) :yes

Well put! 3

 

[whirlwind]

Then again, how old was John? Was he a contemporary of Jesus? About the same age? If he was around 30 or so when Jesus died, add 66 years to that for the late date. John would have been 96. Pretty old to be told -

Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Last time I checked, 96 y/o people aren't exactly running marathons at that point in life. Lol. Heck, maybe he was even older than 30 when he was with Jesus! Maybe he was 38! or 40! LOL. ;) :D

John did prophesy before many and continues to do so....all the way to the end of this age.

Revelation 1:11 Saying, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and what thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

The seven churches, #7 meaning spiritual completeness, represent all believers in the world. If you lay the churches of those named places out on paper you see they are in a circle....they are symbolic of the world. John prophesies to the world through the written Word.

:gah :biglaugh

Check:

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ,
Rom 1:7 to all that are in Rome, beloved of God,

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle...
1Co 1:2 unto the church of God which is at Corinth,

1Th 1:1 Paul ... unto the church of the Thessalonians

Jas 1:1 James... to the twelve tribes which are of the Dispersion

1Pe 1:1 Peter, ... to the elect who are sojourners of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia:

Standard practice to address the churches by the name of the city/nation of those times etc.

Jeff....are they simply letters to you? Some type of historical documents?

Rev 2:13 I know where thou dwellest, even where Satan's throne is; and thou holdest fast my name, and didst not deny my faith, even in the days of Antipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the works of the Nicolaitans

Was there an Antipas? And the Nicolaitans? They taught that eating food sacrificed to idols was OK. But that was 1st century. Literally sacrificing food to idols isn't done today (at least not in the civilized part of the world. :P )

There is a thread that might interest you on the subject of the Nicolaitans.....Why does God HATE the practices of the Nicolaitans? It is more than eating the food of idols.

 

[researcher]

Jeff....are they simply letters to you? Some type of historical documents?

Yes! A lot of them, yes. ;) :D
But with a lot of truth in them. ;)

There is a thread that might interest you on the subject of the Nicolaitans.....Why does God HATE the practices of the Nicolaitans? It is more than eating the food of idols.

See, now, I have to look things up like, "who are the Nicolaitans?" If I don't know who or what they are, there is a good chance it wasn't written to me. I can learn something from it, but, it wasn't addressed directly to me. If it was, it would have some significance to me like, "You have this, that you hate the teachings of the "snake handlers," or "the Jehovah's Witnesses." :o :P

The people this was written to knew what John was talking about, because they lived when these people (the Nicolaitans) did. And they were also persecuted by the Jews of their time who were of the "synagogue of Satan." (I've never been beaten up by a Jew or taken to court because I was a Christian, but, they were). ;) :D

They didn't have to use Google to look stuff up to figure out what John was saying, LOL! :D It had total relevance to them, and they would have understood it because it was written to them.

 

[researcher]

The Historical Evidence for Revelation having been written after A.D. 90

Irenaeus states that John, who wrote The Apocalypse beheld the apocalyptic vision towards the end of Domitian's reign. Domitian reigned from A.D. 81 until his death in A.D. 96. Although "toward the end of Domintian's reign may not have been in 96, it was surely later than 90.

Irenaeus said Jesus was 50 years old when he died. Lol. oops, got that one wrong by a stretch. :o :o

Against Heresies
"Chapter XXII.â€â€The thirty Æons are not typified by the fact that Christ was baptized in His thirtieth year: He did not suffer in the twelfth month after His baptism, but was more than fifty years old when He died."
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iii.xxiii.html


Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

Irenaeus' dating of Revelation can be trusted about as much as his supposed age of Jesus can be! :o :bigfrown ;) :yes

Well put! 3

:nod Danka shein! :D

 

[whirlwind]

Jeff....are they simply letters to you? Some type of historical documents?

Yes! A lot of them, yes. ;) :D
But with a lot of truth in them. ;)

11 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Luke 24:30-32 And it came to pass, as He sat at meat with them, He took bread, and blessed
it, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were opened, and they knew Him; and He vanished out of their sight. And they said one to another, "Did not our heart burn within us, while He talked with us by the way, and while He opened to us the scriptures?"

11 Peter 3:14-16 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given unto him, hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Paul didn't write the letters. Did he address them? Yes...did he add some of his own thoughts? Yes. But, our Father wrote them, gave Paul the wisdom and the Holy Spirit opens our understanding of what was written. :yes

 

[researcher]

Paul didn't write the letters. Did he address them? Yes...did he add some of his own thoughts? Yes. But, our Father wrote them, gave Paul the wisdom and the Holy Spirit opens our understanding of what was written.

Yes, they were inspired by the HS. And the letters became the canon.

and the Holy Spirit opens our understanding of what was written.

Sometimes he does! :o :D

 

[Paidion]

Irenaeus said Jesus was 50 years old when he died.

Not too accurate research there, Researcher!

Irenaeus did NOT say Jesus was 50 years old when he died.

Against Heresies
"Chapter XXII.â€â€The thirty Æons are not typified by the fact that Christ was baptized in His thirtieth year: He did not suffer in the twelfth month after His baptism, but was more than fifty years old when He died."
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iii.xxiii.html

You did not quote the words of Irenaeus, but the title of the chapter written by the editor.

However, it is true that Irenaeus thought that Jesus was more than forty years old. He based it on the words spoken to Him by the Jews, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Irenaeus thought that if He were only in His thirties as the heretics stated, then it would be more reasonable to say, "You are not yet forty."

However, is it your assumption that if a person makes a mistake in something he has written, therefore he is wrong about everything he writes? If so, do you apply that rule to yourself? Or have you NEVER been in error about anything you have written?

Do you apply it to Jude? In the book of Jude, when the author quotes from the book of Enoch, he thought the author of Enoch was the historic Enoch, the seventh from Adam. Jude was mistaken. The book of Enoch was written only a few hundred years before Christ. So will you disregard the rest of the book of Jude because of this error?

 

[westtexas]

Irenaeus said Jesus was 50 years old when he died.

Not too accurate research there, Researcher!

Irenaeus did NOT say Jesus was 50 years old when he died.

Against Heresies
"Chapter XXII.â€â€The thirty Æons are not typified by the fact that Christ was baptized in His thirtieth year: He did not suffer in the twelfth month after His baptism, but was more than fifty years old when He died."
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iii.xxiii.html

You did not quote the words of Irenaeus, but the title of the chapter written by the editor.

However, it is true that Irenaeus thought that Jesus was more than forty years old. He based it on the words spoken to Him by the Jews, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Irenaeus thought that if He were only in His thirties as the heretics stated, then it would be more reasonable to say, "You are not yet forty."

However, is it your assumption that if a person makes a mistake in something he has written, therefore he is wrong about everything he writes? If so, do you apply that rule to yourself? Or have you NEVER been in error about anything you have written?

Do you apply it to Jude? In the book of Jude, when the author quotes from the book of Enoch, he thought the author of Enoch was the historic Enoch, the seventh from Adam. Jude was mistaken. The book of Enoch was written only a few hundred years before Christ. So will you disregard the rest of the book of Jude because of this error?

Paidion, Are you saying that the book of Jude is written incorrectly? This can not be. There is much in scripture that we will not understand or agree on until we meet our Lord face to face, however, ALL of scripture is God inspired and is INERRANT. If scripture is incorrect in even 1 point,all of scripture is then invalid, and this my brother is not possible.

Your brother in Christ, Westtexas

 

[researcher]

Irenaeus said Jesus was 50 years old when he died.

Not too accurate research there, Researcher!

Irenaeus did NOT say Jesus was 50 years old when he died.

Against Heresies
"Chapter XXII.â€â€The thirty Æons are not typified by the fact that Christ was baptized in His thirtieth year: He did not suffer in the twelfth month after His baptism, but was more than fifty years old when He died."
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iii.xxiii.html

You did not quote the words of Irenaeus, but the title of the chapter written by the editor.

However, it is true that Irenaeus thought that Jesus was more than forty years old. He based it on the words spoken to Him by the Jews, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Irenaeus thought that if He were only in His thirties as the heretics stated, then it would be more reasonable to say, "You are not yet forty."

However, is it your assumption that if a person makes a mistake in something he has written, therefore he is wrong about everything he writes? If so, do you apply that rule to yourself? Or have you NEVER been in error about anything you have written?

Do you apply it to Jude? In the book of Jude, when the author quotes from the book of Enoch, he thought the author of Enoch was the historic Enoch, the seventh from Adam. Jude was mistaken. The book of Enoch was written only a few hundred years before Christ. So will you disregard the rest of the book of Jude because of this error?

"He did not then want much of being fifty years old, and, in accordance with that fact, they said to Him, “Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?†He did not therefore preach only for one year, nor did He suffer in the twelfth month of the year."

Basically the same thing. ;)

Have I been wrong, lol! Of course! ;) :D

As for Jude... not too worried.

2Ti 2:7 Consider what I say; for the Lord shall give thee understanding in all things.

True interpretation come from the HS. There are many out there that are not from Him.. imo. ;)