Inherint contradictions teaching Faith Alone

[Jethro Bodine]

we're told that we cannot be 100% perfect, so why even try.

I'm sorry that this kind of misguided teaching is out there. Work is expected from the believer as a labor of love and gratitude for the forgiveness we have received. Work is not required for us as a law of righteousness. Christ put an end to righteousness by the law. Working righteousness to be made righteous doesn't work, because nobody works righteousness well enough to cause God to declare us righteous on that basis.

Or I hear that our works are as filthy rags.

Yes, the clothing of your righteousness is as a woman's menstrual cloth (Isaiah 64:6). As I'm sure you know, by law even the most beautiful and graceful and well adorned women were made unclean by the hidden stain of their monthly flow. That is how it is with us. No matter how successful we are at being righteous it only takes the hidden stain of our natural flow of unrighteousness to make us unrighteous. That's why we can't rely on the clothing of our righteousness to get into the kingdom. It's not good enough. It's worthless. Only the righteousness of God, imputed to us as a free gift, apart from the consideration of our (so-called) righteousness, is good enough to get us into the kingdom.

Charles Stanley used to state that we could commit ANY SIN and still be saved!

Yes, I know. For some reason he did not know that the Bible says willful, unrepentant sin is the sign of the unbeliever. And we both know unbelievers are hardly saved.

The ONLY sin that can keep a person out of the kingdom is the sin of unbelief. No provision has been made by God to atone for the sin of determined unbelief. You can't have the benefit of the Sacrifice of Jesus that can cover all sin that you don't believe in. And so unbelief is the one sin that the Sacrifice of Christ can't cover. Charles Stanley didn't realize that unrepentant, willful sinning condemns a person because willful sinning is the sin of unbelief.

 

[GodsGrace]

No. Jesus did not come to make life on Earth better. He came to die for sinners. Making the world a better place is a by product of people living according to God's law. Jesus was teaching us how to respond to Him.
I do not believe Jesus was highly concerned about making the world a better place, other than what could be accomplished by the people of God living as they ought to. Again His mission was to die for sinners.

As for my last sentence 2 Samuel chapter 6.

This is an interesting concept Only.
Jesus spoke about salvation a couple of times...being born again.
Check it out.
Then check out how many times Jesus spoke out the Kingdom of God.
He was addressing PERSONS LIVING AT THE TIME....
He meant ON THIS EARTH....


This might not have occurred to you just yet.
Some mature Christians have never considered this.

I'll post a link because it's too much to get into....
Jesus is the atonement for our sins.
Jesus also wanted to make this earth a better place...
He referred to it as the Kingdom of God NOW...not to be confused
with the New Jerusalem...the New Kingdom at the end of the age.

The Gospel of the Kingdom vs. The Gospel of Salvation

A resource to help you understand the differences between the Gospel of the Kingdom vs. the Gospel of Salvation.

www.linkedin.com

 

[GodsGrace]

We must not confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. The good deeds of the redeemed (those who have done good - John 5:28-29) are not the basis or means by which they obtained salvation but is the evidence of it. A person's conduct, whether good or evil, reveals the condition of his heart.

If one reads Romans 2:6 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it’s critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These good works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

Doing good flows inescapably from a heart that is saved and doing evil flows equally inescapably from a heart that is unsaved, as we also see in Romans 2:6-10. *Notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers - vs. 24) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil.

If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already.. Are believers described as "those who have done good" or those who have done evil?" Are unbelievers described as those "who have done evil" or "those who have done good?"

BTW I never said that works are dreadful. That is a straw man argument. We are to let our light shine before men, that they may see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:16) We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10) Those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men. (Titus 3:8) That does not sound dreadful, forced or legalistic.

Remember that faith works by/is expressed through love. (Galatians 5:6)

I reject your theory of descriptive and prescriptive theology.
You use these terms to make the NT say what YOU want it to say and NOT what the writers are saying.

And yes, you make works to be dreadful.
Something to be avoided.
Something not necessary in our lives.
THIS IS NOT THE GOSPEL MESSAGE.

We cannot seem to get beyond this...thus too much repeating and
our conversation is moot.

 

[GodsGrace]

Nobody is saying we do not have to do good works.

The argument is that we do not have to do good works in order to be credited God's righteousness.

No J.
We HAVE TO DO GOOD WORKS.

All the writers state this.

After justification comes sanctification.
We must become sanctified if we are to see heaven.
Call it theosis,,,call it what you will.

But this is a statement of fact.

When I ask for scripture showing that Jesus NEVER said to believe in Him ONLY...
I get back verses about BELIEVING in Jesus.

I guess the repliers don't know what BELIEVE means.

If one BELIEVES in Jesus....it must be an experiental belief...
NOT a mental belief. Even the demons believe.

So what's the difference?
WE OBEY GOD.

OBEDIENCE requires ACTION.

Again...Jesus does not SUGGEST...,
He COMMANDS.

John 14:15
15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 15:14
14 "You are My friends if you do what I command you.
John 15:2
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Sounds very serious to me.
If WE DO NOT BEAR FRUIT,,,,the branch will be cut away.

Anyone reading along must understand that God COMMANDS us to do good works.
It is NOT A CHOICE.

Saying we do good works because WE WANT to is not sufficient for God.
We certainly WANT TO.

BUT WE ALSO MUST DO THEM.

If you cannot agree to this...
then you do not understand Jesus' message to His beleivers.

 

[GodsGrace]

The growing pains of the believer do not disqualify a believer from the inheritance.

Strawman.
Who made such a statement?

Purposely dwelling in sin does,

Strawman.
Who made such a statement?
WHO is dwelling in sin?

Do you state then that NOT DOING GOOD WORKS is a sin perhaps?

because purposely dwelling in sin is the sign of the unbeliever, not the believer. So Paul would have to go back to unbelief to be disqualified.

To be disqualified,,,,ACCORDING TO PAUL, who made the statement....
NOT FINISHING the race would disqualify him.

Finishing a race and leaving a race are two distinct ideas.
Paul is speaking about FINISHING THE RACE in 1 Cor 9:27.

He's comparing TRAINING HIS BODY, DOING GOOD DEEDS,
just as an athlete must train his body by PRACTICE.

We must PRACTICE GOOD WORKS in order to FINISH the race.

Assuming that's even possible for a real believer to do (the warning seems to be sufficient to keep the real believer believing-I take no firm stance on the issue).

Scripturally, it's clear that only an unbeliever can be disqualified, not someone who believes, because the believing person's sin is continually atoned for through the finished but ongoing intercessory Ministry of Christ in the heavenly tabernacle that he believes and trusts in (Hebrews 7:25).

Who's talking about sin?
We all sin every day.

Paul is not warning us that you remain justified through the merit of your working. You remain justified through continued believing, as evidenced by your work - "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6).

Oh. So now you add LOVE to your faith.
You have just added something to faith alone...which is what you teach.
This is what John Calvin also taught....a real believer of faith alone.
HE said that, yes, it is faith alone, but that love is a part of it.
Thus ADDING to faith alone....
because FAITH ALONE does not work.

 

[GodsGrace]

I answered your question already with an emphatic "YES". Did you miss that?

Then why are we debating this?
Why is WORKS a bad word in Christianity?
I posted a pew research that shows that most Christians - Protestants - believe in good works.

Those that state that they are a RESULT of salvation,,,and other such ideas....
are watering down Christianity.
Christianity is a system of BEHAVIOR...
Jesus taught a certain BEHAVIOR pattern that we are to follow.

Stating that works are not necessary is deny that Jesus taught this.

And, let's not forget that Paul was speaking about THE LAW vs. FAITH.
We lose sight of this in these conversations.

Paul exhorted believers to BEHAVIOR in his writings.

Romans 13:8-10
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


1 Corinthians 4:11-16
11 To this present hour we are both hungry and thirsty, and are poorly clothed, and are roughly treated, and are homeless;
12 and we toil, working with our own hands; when we are reviled, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure;
13 when we are slandered, we try to conciliate; we have become as the scum of the world, the dregs of all things, even until now.
14 I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children.
15 For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
16 Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me.
1 Corinthians 5:7-11
7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler -not even to eat with such a one.

This is in each letter.
Paul is addressing behavior...good works.
If he says we are a "so-called" brother by NOT behaving...
then by behaving we are a real brother.

But behavior it is.

 

[GodsGrace]

Nobody is saying we don't have to do good works. We don't have to do good works to be, or remain, justified, as if doing works was how one is imputed the righteousness of God. THAT is the argument.

OK
So let's state THIS clearly:
We must do good works to REMAIN justified.

This goes to the discussion we've had before regarding the meaning of justificaiton.
It seems to me that justification cannot be separated from sanctifiction.

We are justified and are without sin and clean and pleasant to God AT THAT MOMENT.
Does that moment last forever?

Or do we go on to sanctification?
Is God also going to sanctify us no matter HOW WE BEHAVE?

This conversation is hinging upon ideas we have not touched upon.
1. What is justification.
2. What is sanctification.
3. Are they imputed or infused.
4. Does man have a part in his salvation.
5. What does faith alone man anyway.
6. Can justification and sanctification be separated from each other.
7. Does the NT teach theodicy. And what does it mean. Do we actually become God.

I'm sure there's more but that's all I can think of for right now.

Let's take the forensic defiinition of JUSTIFIED.

God has declared us to be justified...right with God.
At the moment we are justified....

We leave the courtroom and are:
The same as before and CONTINUE to be the same as before.

Are we still justified?
Is this mocking God?

Jesus prayed for the will of God in the Garden.
JESUS prayed this.

Are we also to live in the will of God?
Is it a choice?

 

[GodsGrace]

And you think that righteousness - the part-time righteousness of your works - is going to get you into heaven? That's not good enough.

J,,,I mentione the silly question the other member had to show how SILLY it is.
And you speak of part-time righteousness.
Uffa.
So what's part-time if that's what you care to discuss?
Are you ALWAYS a Christian or just at certain times?
Do we want to turn this into a conversation about sin?
I sin every day.
That doesn't sound like part time to me.
I'm relying on Jesus' love for me to save me.

But that doesn't mean I get to sit around in HIS KINGDOM and do nothing.
We are God's hands and feet,,,,created for GOOD WORKS. Eph 2:10

Sooner or later every person has to realize the ONLY righteousness that's going to get you into heaven is the righteousness of God given to you as a free gift of his grace. You get that gift of righteousness when you believe in God's promise of a Son who inherits the blessing on your behalf. The same way Abraham was imputed the righteousness of God.

Abraham was righteous.
I don't remember anything about imputation.
Abraham also was willing to offer his son.
He was also willing to leave Ur.
He was willing to offer Lot the better piece of land.
Abraham WORKED A LOT AFTER he was saved.
After he heard from God
AND OBEYED.

Our will must match the will of God.

18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it to Abraham through a promise. Galatians 3:18

You don't work the righteousness of the law to receive the promise of the inheritance (you aren't that good, nobody is). You believe the promise, and it is given to you as a free gift.

Agreed.
Paul is speaking to THE LAW.
I know you know the difference.

He is NOT speaking about not doing good works.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm sorry that this kind of misguided teaching is out there. Work is expected from the believer as a labor of love and gratitude for the forgiveness we have received. Work is not required for us as a law of righteousness. Christ put an end to righteousness by the law. Working righteousness to be made righteous doesn't work, because nobody works righteousness well enough to cause God to declare us righteous on that basis.


Yes, the clothing of your righteousness is as a woman's menstrual cloth (Isaiah 64:6). As I'm sure you know, by law even the most beautiful and graceful and well adorned women were made unclean by the hidden stain of their monthly flow. That is how it is with us. No matter how successful we are at being righteous it only takes the hidden stain of our natural flow of unrighteousness to make us unrighteous. That's why we can't rely on the clothing of our righteousness to get into the kingdom. It's not good enough. It's worthless. Only the righteousness of God, imputed to us as a free gift, apart from the consideration of our (so-called) righteousness, is good enough to get us into the kingdom.


Yes, I know. For some reason he did not know that the Bible says willful, unrepentant sin is the sign of the unbeliever. And we both know unbelievers are hardly saved.

The ONLY sin that can keep a person out of the kingdom is the sin of unbelief. No provision has been made by God to atone for the sin of determined unbelief. You can't have the benefit of the Sacrifice of Jesus that can cover all sin that you don't believe in. And so unbelief is the one sin that the Sacrifice of Christ can't cover. Charles Stanley didn't realize that unrepentant, willful sinning condemns a person because willful sinning is the sin of unbelief.

Too much above and it's lunch time.
Later.

 

[mailmandan]

I reject your theory of descriptive and prescriptive theology.
You use these terms to make the NT say what YOU want it to say and NOT what the writers are saying.

Of course you do. Your eisegesis does not permit it. Everything is prescriptive for those who teach works salvation/works righteousness.

And yes, you make works to be dreadful.
Something to be avoided.
Something not necessary in our lives.
THIS IS NOT THE GOSPEL MESSAGE.

That is not true. I already explained my view on good works which is not dreadful. Faith works through/is expressed by love and not dread.

Letting our light shine before men, that they may see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven is not dreadful but delightful. (Matthew 5:16) Being God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them is not dreadful but delightful. (Ephesians 2:10) Being careful to maintain good works and these things are good and profitable to men is not dreadful but delightful. (Titus 3:8) What I find dreadful is viewing good works as forced or legalistic, culminating in works righteousness/self righteousness which is not the gospel message.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that (Romans 1:16) To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

So, what do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel?

We cannot seem to get beyond this...thus too much repeating and
our conversation is moot.

As long as you continue to promote works salvation/works righteousness we will not get beyond this.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No J.
We HAVE TO DO GOOD WORKS.

Yes, but not for justification.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We must become sanctified if we are to see heaven.

Yes, but only because not becoming sanctified in practical living is the sign of unbelief. The lack of practical sanctification condemns you for that reason, not because you did not do the works required to inherit the kingdom, as if it was obtained on the merit of works.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

When I ask for scripture showing that Jesus NEVER said to believe in Him ONLY...

No one is making any kind of argument that Jesus or any New Testament writer said you do not have to do works of righteousness. The argument is you do not have to do works of righteousness in order to receive the imputation of God's righteousness. But, please, show us a scripture where Jesus said, in the context of the New Covenant, that you do works of righteousness in order to obtain the imputation of God's righteousness if you are sure of that argument.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If one BELIEVES in Jesus....it must be an experiental belief...
NOT a mental belief. Even the demons believe.

So what's the difference?

Demons don't believe, as in trust, in the blood of Christ. That's the difference. They just believe the fact that he is the Messiah who died and rose from the dead. They know that better than you or I! They've seen that with their own eyes. But they don't believe in him for the forgiveness of sin and the promise of eternal life.

Google 'the Shema Deuteronomy 6:4' for more insight into what James is getting at when he talks about the demons also believing that God is one.

 

[mailmandan]

Work is expected from the believer as a labor of love and gratitude for the forgiveness we have received.

Amen! Love and gratitude are what motivate me to do good works. Not self-promotion or works-righteousness.

 

[JLB]

Yes, I agree. Abraham was justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar.

Great.

His obedience showed that he was righteous. That's what justified means in the passage. It does not mean he was made righteous by his obedience.

I think we agree that Abraham, or anyone else wouldn’t be shown to be righteous by disobedience.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm sorry that this kind of misguided teaching is out there.

This misguided teaching is out there because of those that speak as you do even though they're living lives that would be pleasing to God.

I'll bet you know that Alice Cooper is a saved person that believes.
So why the stage persona? He admitted that it was all a put on.

So maybe we Christians should stop with the language and the "put-ons" and speak to what
Jesus wants from us.

Maybe we could start saying, that YES, good works are necessary for salvation and/or continued salvation.

Maybe we shouldn't be separating justification from sanctification.
It's all what God wants...for us to be saved AND for us to further His Kingdom on earth...
IOW...to DO good works/deeds.

Maybe we're relying too much on our justification and not enough on our sanctification.

Work is expected from the believer as a labor of love and gratitude

Think about this:
IF we do something out of gratitude....
is it not MERITING the salvation?

And does MERIT mean the same as EARN?

So many aspects to this.

The bible speaks to earning our salvation...
it does not speak to meriting our salvation.
Maybe we also need to MERIT our salvation?

for the forgiveness we have received. Work is not required for us as a law of righteousness. Christ put an end to righteousness by the law. Working righteousness to be made righteous doesn't work, because nobody works righteousness well enough to cause God to declare us righteous on that basis.

Strawman.
You're making the same point that the member asking me HOW MANY GOOD WORKS are necessary to do to be saved.

What do you mean nobody works righteousness enough to cause God to declare us righteous on that basis?
Does God want us to do good or not?
Any amount of good works will expand what Jesus wants life to be on earth.
Maybe Jesus asked too much.
Maybe some don't understand what Jesus wants.

Yes, the clothing of your righteousness is as a woman's menstrual cloth (Isaiah 64:6). As I'm sure you know, by law even the most beautiful and graceful and well adorned women were made unclean by the hidden stain of their monthly flow.

There we go.
Our good works are as filthy rags.
THIS is your message in the end, J.

You're conflicting what you believe to be true.
You cannot reply YES to the necessity of good works...
and then call them filthy rages.

We need to read ALL of Isaiah 64...It's long, I'll just post a few verse:

Isaiah 64:1
1 Oh, that You would rend the heavens and come down, That the mountains might quake at Your presence -
Isaiah feels abandoned by God...thus the Jews.
64:5
5 You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness, Who remembers You in Your ways.
God rejoices in those that do righteousness...
of course those that are saved...Isaiah was saved and is speaking about those that believed in God.

64:6-8
6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
7 There is no one who calls on Your name, Who arouses himself to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us And have delivered us into the power of our iniquities.
8 But now, O LORD, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand.

Verse 5: God rejoices in those that believe God,,,in His ways and that who God meets.
He rejoices in their righteous acts....they are saved AND doing righteous acts.

Verse 6: Those that are UNCLEAN are doing righteous acts that are not pleasing to God.
It's speaking about those that do not call on God's name....the lost. The saved do good works and God is pleased with them.

That is how it is with us. No matter how successful we are at being righteous it only takes the hidden stain of our natural flow of unrighteousness to make us unrighteous. That's why we can't rely on the clothing of our righteousness to get into the kingdom. It's not good enough. It's worthless. Only the righteousness of God, imputed to us as a free gift, apart from the consideration of our (so-called) righteousness, is good enough to get us into the kingdom.


Yes, I know. For some reason he did not know that the Bible says willful, unrepentant sin is the sign of the unbeliever. And we both know unbelievers are hardly saved.

The ONLY sin that can keep a person out of the kingdom is the sin of unbelief. No provision has been made by God to atone for the sin of determined unbelief. You can't have the benefit of the Sacrifice of Jesus that can cover all sin that you don't believe in. And so unbelief is the one sin that the Sacrifice of Christ can't cover. Charles Stanley didn't realize that unrepentant, willful sinning condemns a person because willful sinning is the sin of unbelief.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Maybe we could start saying, that YES, good works are necessary for salvation and/or continued salvation.

Good works are not necessary for JUSTIFICATION.

Good works are only necessary for salvation from the wrath of God at the resurrection when they will be used as the evidence of your faith in God's forgiveness.

It is by God's forgiveness, received by faith, that you are delivered from the wrath of God and made eligble to enter into the kingdom. In no way do your works make you righteous enough to enter into the kingdom. You're not righteous enough to enter in on the basis of your righteousness. No one is. Only the righteousness of God imputed to you through faith, evidenced in how you live, is good enough to get you into the kingdom of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course you do. Your eisegesis does not permit it. Everything is prescriptive for those who teach works salvation/works righteousness.

That is not true. I already explained my view on good works which is not dreadful. Faith works through/is expressed by love and not dread.

Letting our light shine before men, that they may see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven is not dreadful but delightful. (Matthew 5:16) Being God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them is not dreadful but delightful. (Ephesians 2:10) Being careful to maintain good works and these things are good and profitable to men is not dreadful but delightful. (Titus 3:8) What I find dreadful is viewing good works as forced or legalistic, culminating in works righteousness/self righteousness which is not the gospel message.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that (Romans 1:16) To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

So, what do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel?

As long as you continue to promote works salvation/works righteousness we will not get beyond this.

To believe the gospel is to believe the good news.
The good news is that, from before time began, God had planned for our salvation
since He knew Adam would fail.

God loves His creation and will save them through faith.
He will also gift to them faithfulness,
1 Corinthians 12:4-7 NASB
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

2 Peter 1:3-9
3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten * his purification from his former sins.

So what can we know?:
1. We are saved and given gifts for the common good.
I like to say that we work for the Kingdom of God.

2. We are granted what we need for our godliness. True knowledge of God is knowing that we are to reflect His nature...godliness.

3. By His promise we can become partakers of this divine nature.
God desires to see a change in us.

4. To our faith we add: moral diligence,,,and self-control, brotherly kindness, love.

5. If we have these equalities, we are neither fruitless or useless.
See John 15:2 The unfruitful branches will be cut off.
See the parable of the fig tree that did not bear fruit. Jesus said He would wait one more year and then it would be cut down. Luke 13:6-9

6. We cannot be saved without these qualities.

NOT if we do not have these qualities we are not saved.

So I understand the gospel to be salvation for our souls....
Good works for the Kingdom of God.

We will not have one without the other.

 

[mailmandan]

To believe the gospel is to believe the good news.
The good news is that, from before time began, God had planned for our salvation
since He knew Adam would fail.

God loves His creation and will save them through faith.
He will also gift to them faithfulness,
1 Corinthians 12:4-7 NASB
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

2 Peter 1:3-9
3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten * his purification from his former sins.

So what can we know?:
1. We are saved and given gifts for the common good.
I like to say that we work for the Kingdom of God.

2. We are granted what we need for our godliness. True knowledge of God is knowing that we are to reflect His nature...godliness.

3. By His promise we can become partakers of this divine nature.
God desires to see a change in us.

4. To our faith we add: moral diligence,,,and self-control, brotherly kindness, love.

5. If we have these equalities, we are neither fruitless or useless.
See John 15:2 The unfruitful branches will be cut off.
See the parable of the fig tree that did not bear fruit. Jesus said He would wait one more year and then it would be cut down. Luke 13:6-9

6. We cannot be saved without these qualities.

NOT if we do not have these qualities we are not saved.

So I understand the gospel to be salvation for our souls....
Good works for the Kingdom of God.

We will not have one without the other.

I noticed that you did not mention the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and you seem to place a heavy emphasis on verses that you believe teach we maintain our salvation by works. You call that good news?

By cultivating the qualities listed in 2 Peter 1:5-7, Christians can be sure that God has called them and elected them. These fruits will confirm it. Make sure you have been called and elected. bébaios (an adjective, derived from bainō, "to walk where it is solid") – properly, solid (sure) enough to walk on; hence, firm, unshakable; (figuratively) absolutely dependable, giving guaranteed support (security, surety). Make sure that you are saved. To practice these qualities gives evidence of and assurance of salvation, though they are not the basis (or cause) of salvation. They are the effect. Cause of being in Christ (FAITH) effect of being in Christ (FRUIT).

For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (vs. 8). For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins (vs. 9). What is the object of the forgetting? Is this forgetting temporary because this believer had fallen into error or does this lack of fruit exist because this person’s "cleansing" was merely an external reformation that did not come from a truly changed heart? The genuineness of their profession will be demonstrated as they express these virtues. These fruits confirm their divine source. Verse 10 - Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble.

In regard to John 15:2,
the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot). In regard to John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas.

John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.

The Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. Abiding in Christ is not a special level of Christian experience that is only available to a few, elite Christians, but is the position of all true believers. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.