Different translations could use a different word that might have a meaning that is slightly different,,,and important....but I find this to be very few and far between.
I don't see the concept of faith alone throughout the NT.
Remember, this is about justification. The Reformed position is that we are
justified by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. No one that I have ever heard teaches that we have faith alone and don't have to ever do good works as that would clearly go against James.
The repeated refrain throughout the NT is to simply believe in, to put one's faith in, Jesus or his name, or that we are saved only by grace through faith. Those are all saying the same thing--justification by faith alone.
It seems to exhort us to do good works.
It tells us to walk in the spirit.
It tells us to cleanse ourselves. (2 Cor 7:1)
Yes, it tells us to do those things, but even then we cannot do them under our own power, otherwise we could just do them without being justified in the first place. I am not nor have I ever argued against the need to do good works; I have explicitly stated we must.
I read post 389.
I just don't believe that James is using meaning 2...evidence of justification.
James 2:24
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
It seems to me that James is using the Catholic understanding of justification....which is really what we believe to be sanctification.
As you've stated...Catholicism teaches that justification is on-going,,,ergo sanctification.
So it 2:24 would read:
You see that a man is sanctified by works and not by faith along.
Yes, except that there is another word for sanctification that James doesn't use and we shouldn't conflate that with justification. He is clearly speaking of justification, which means that it can only be meaning 2. It's unfortunate that the Catholic Church muddled up something relatively simple and straightforward.
Remember, the whole context of that discussion is:
Jas 2:14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
...
Jas 2:17
So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, āYou have faith and I have works.ā Show me your faith apart from your works,
and I will show you my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believeāand shudder!
Jas 2:20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
Jas 2:23
and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, āAbraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousnessāāand he was called a friend of God. (ESV)
Even James shows us when Abraham was declared righteous, when he believed the promises of God, in Gen. 15:6. So, James
cannot be saying that Abraham was declared righteous in Gen. 22, some 20 years later. The only explanation is that James is showing that Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac is
evidence of the righteousness he already received back in Gen. 15:6--it was his faith working along with his works (vs. 22).
Paul makes the case in Rom. 4, much more strongly, that Abraham's righteousness came
only through faith by also appealing to Ge. 15:6. His entire point is that it was through faith and not works.
I say this because I looked through some old books I used to use before the net,,,and gave up and went to YouTube.
I believe I'm correct in saying that reformed theology did teach that we are justified AND sanctified by faith alone and that our faith in Jesus was the ONLY method of salvation, with works having no part.
I would have to see context and understand what definitions they are using. We have to understand that salvation is all a work of God from start to finish. Justification is the initial moment of salvation, by grace alone through faith alone; a free gift of God. Sanctification is a little more complex. We are commanded to be holy and do good, but we cannot do anything that makes us more holy apart from the help of the Holy Spirit. If we could, we wouldn't need Jesus at all. So, there is still an element of faith involved. Even then, it isn't only through good works that we are sanctified. It also happens through trials and temptations, in which case there is a significant amount of faith involved.
I have to stand by my understanding that we need both.
I found this re CS Lewis,
Christians have often disputed as to whether what leads the Christian to his heavenly home is good actions or just Faith in Christ. I have no right really to speak on such a difficult question, but it does seem to me like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most necessary.
A serious moral effort is the only thing that will bring you to the point where you throw up the sponge. Faith in Christ is the only thing to save you from despair at that point; and out of that Faith in Him, good actions must inevitably come.
source: https://hilltopthoughtsvalleystreng...faith-vs-works-the-two-blades-of-my-scissors/
Both, but works don't save us. If we don't do good works, if we have no desire to do good works, if we have no desire to obey God's commands, then we cannot be saved.
https://hilltopthoughtsvalleystreng...faith-vs-works-the-two-blades-of-my-scissors/
Maybe we also need to be rendered righteous? meaning 1 of post 389.
I am not sure. We have to remember that Strong's is based on how the KJV translators translated and used words, so it depends on what "rendered" meant to them at the time. My e-Sword Strong's says:
Ī“Ī¹ĪŗĪ±Ī¹ĪæĢĻ
dikaiooĢ
dik-ah-yo'-o
From G1342;
to render (that is,
show or
regard as)
just or
innocent: - free, justify (-ier), be righteous.
That really is not different from meaning 2. Not that it matters, but now that I look at it again, the meanings are actually from Thayer's Greek Definitions, not Strong's. Only how the word was translated in the KJV is from Strong's, which is essentially all that Strong's does as a concordance.
Maybe this is the dividing line:
We are DECLARED righteous by faith alone...
but then we need to be RENDERED righteous through our behavior.
And maybe this is MORE than just evidence but an actual requirement, which is what I've been saying all along
to the other member.
It's in that question I ask: ARE WE REQUIRED TO DO GOOD WORKS?
Of course we do them because the Holy Spirit helps us and we WANT to....
but what of those that state they are NOT necessary....
then we say that they are not really saved.
So, then, to be saved it seems to me that they are necessary.
Except that the moment of salvation is being declared righteous. Works are evidence that a person has been saved. We are saved, are being saved, and will be saved.
Maybe IMPUTED also has something to do with this.
Paul does speak to this and states that God has imputed Christ's righteousness to us.
This would make faith alone be a correct doctrine.
Yes, and that happens at the moment of justification. That is the only way we can be declared righteous--because Christ's righteousness is imputed to us; we have no righteousness in and of ourselves, nor can we earn it.
So then I must ask myself...why all the exhortations to a "sinless" life of good behavior and good deeds?
I also checked out the ECFs, which I always do since they were taught by the Apostles, and they also believed in good works. For salvation.
Heb 12:14
Strive for peace with everyone, and
for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. (ESV)
Because holiness really matters. (This gets into the tricky, to me, nuances of sanctification.) If someone doesn't want to be holy, if there is no conviction of sin, for example, then they cannot have the Holy Spirit; they cannot be saved. (This also gets into OSAS, so what more can be said depends on one's position there, but I'm not going to debate OSAS.)
There are just some finer nuances, particularly with sanctification, that can confuse things a bit.
