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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Don
Have you ever thought about...what if there is no evidence ?
Then what are the fruits worthy of repentance? "Gift of tongue"? Wrong, first that's not for everybody, second it happens only after the receiving of the Holy Spirit, not repentance.
Then you're sidetracking.
I'm glad of love more than fear.
And yet you've been boasting that you're sinless, pffffft. Where have your certainty and assurance gone?
Alright, Lev. 14:8-9.
You're projecting your own ideas onto me.
By believing Jesus Christ as the son of God and accepting him as your Lord and Savior, Jn. 3:16.
No it's not. Water is water, blood is blood, spirit is spirit, all distinct from one another.
You don't believe it as long as you doubt the validity of his words.
Then water baptism can't wash away sin.
No, that's me being sarcastic on your defense of baptismal salvation.
All work-based false religion.
You're the one disregarding Lord Jesus's own words as such for "OT people" only, not me.
You're the one seeing other commission - John the Baptist's baptism "unto repentance", not Lord Jesus's.
No, only Lord Jesus himself can baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire, it can't be accelerated, manipulated or forced by anybody else.
You brought up that point first. It is your conviction that OT is fulfilled and thus obsolete, only NT is "facts".
Lord Jesus addressed them as servants, who are you to deny him and suggest otherwise?
I don't know, you tell me what you meant by "OT people". Last time I checked, Luke is the NT, Lord Jesus preached to all, his blood is the NT, Matt. 26:28.
You're still picking and choosing the portions you like, not ALL SCRIPTURE.
You really are denying God's holy word and sound doctrine?
You really are denying God's holy word and sound doctrine?
Then please do yourself a favor, stop quoting anything from his speech or letter. According to you he's an unsaved sinner with no credibility to teach anything about salvation.
Says you who've been sidetracking with all kinds of heresies.
You prove to me the necessity of water baptism for salvation first.
Great, you're calling Lord Jesus's own audience "OT people", his own servants non Christians, and now his closest disciple a heretic? Aren't you ashamed with all these name calling and labeling?
Conflating the blood with water which, according to you, is just a "waste of time".
Well how about everything? According to Peter, quoting prophet Joel, "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved," (Acts 2:21) Lord Jesus told Nicodemus the same in Jn. 3:16, and yet you keep denying their salvific status and adding works for salvation.
Why can't their sin be washed away with water - and/or blood, since they're the same, according to you? Supposed they had truly "turned from sin", then what's left to be washed away? Your theology is inherently contradictory and indefensible.
Like you just did, the people asked John the Baptist the same question in Luke 3:10.
No, as that is a gift from God, given to the truly repentant.
Nobody gets the gift of the Spirit or the gift of tongues, without having turned from sin first.
Be glad for both.
The glory God has reaped from my lifestyle is not boasting.
The only cleansing of leprosy in the OT would have been some miracle by God...like Naaman the Syrian.
Do you expect Jesus to shed blood every time someone comes to Him with sorrow for wasting their life on sin ?
That verse made no mention of the blood being applied for atonement, remission of past sins, sanctification, or of justification.
And 1 John 5:8 says they agree in one !
You have failed to provide those words.
It can if the turn from sin (repentance) was real.
OK.
Thanks be to God for equipping us to do that work, for the glory of God and the name of His Son !
I know that some of His commands no longer apply to us of the NT.
I guess we could, indeed, call that John's "commission".
You lost track of what we were discussing.
The OT is "facts" too, but much of it are shadows of things that were fulfilled by Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.
Who are you referring to ?
OT people are folks who lived under the Old Covenant.
Much of Luke's writing is about OT people, until the NT arrived to change his perspective.
Are you still preaching circumcision and dietary rules ?
Are you qualified to grant Paul salvation ?
Jesus' words..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; ..." (Mark 16:16)
Until Jesus shed the blood of the new covenant, it was till the OC.
Again, I forgive you for your misquote.
The simple mentioning of the Lord's name at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins does not constitute salvation.
The Lord's blood will not wash away the sins of anyone who will not (repent of, (turn from) sin.
Their past sins would still need to be washed away.
It would seem that way, for one who can't tell the difference between repentance from sin and baptism for their washing away.
And how much, how often and for how long do they have to do these deeds of kindness before they are qualified as truly repentant and ready for baptism?
No, given to those who are born again in spirit.
That one exception debunks the false doctrine of baptismal salvation, and it was not a small exception - he was the first Gentile disciple.
You must've lost your mind if you're glad of fear.
That you're saved from sin? How can you know since, according to you, you have to wait till the judgement day to find out?
Nonetheless God instituted the procedure for them.
No I don't, Jesus shed his blood once for all, the difference is each one's belief of that or lack thereof. His blood is only applied to believers.
God gave his only begotten son means giving him to die for our sins, 1 Cor. 15:3.
That's talking about Jesus's messiahship, not water baptism. The three bear witness of Jesus Christ, not anybody who gets baptized. You're talking it out of context.
You have failed to read what I've repeated provided.
Then I ask you again, what counts as real? Since you're into work-based religion, how much work is required? Is it in any way or form quantifiable?
You're noy only projecting your own misconceptions onto me, but the OP also. Why don't you ask him?
You don't work to get saved, you work BECAUSE you're saved. You don't know the difference.
No, but we're to keep obeying the Lord himself, and you're dismissing his words as not applicable to you.
The commission is completed and expired.
Yes, whom God finds worthy, not whom you find worthy based on their baptisma status
Then why did you brought up "fear of God" from the Proverbs, since it's "not pertinent"? Isn't God love?
Don't play dumb, go back and read the text in Lk. 12:42-48.
Except Jesus was preaching to his disciples with whom he first made the New Covenant (Matt. 26:28)!
But this one is not. Luke wasn't live-recording a documentary, he wrote the gospel decades after Christ's death, burial, resurrection and ascension.
Are you still picking and choosing your preferred portions of the Scripture?
No you're not. God doesn't use unsaved person as his chosen vessel. You don't trust God as long as you deny Paul's salvific status.
"Believe" first, and that "baptize" refers to being baptized in spirit in the Lord's own ministry (Matt. 3:11) - not John the Baptist's.
I didn't misquote you, those are all your own words.
God won't forgive you for denying the saving power of the Holy Spirit by attributing it to water baptism.
Good, then once again, water baptism doesn't wash away sin.
Only the saved have a race to run.
There's no sin the blood can't wash away as long as you truly believe in Jesus in your heart. The blood will never lose its power!
Says you who can't tell the difference between blood and water.
Interesting questions...No deeds are necessary to qualify anyone for baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Can you cite any scripture for that POV ?
You will need to define "baptismal salvation" before I can answer that.
The fear of God is the beginning of knowledge...and of wisdom, as is written in the Proverbs. (Pro 1:7, 9:10)
As long as I keep resisting the devil's temptations to commit sin, I deem myself as "in Christ".
What I think about myself today may change in a year, or ten years.
Yes, He did.
I agree, but my version of believers will have that atoning, sanctifying, justifying, blood of Christ applied to themselves by "immersion" into Jesus' blood on His cross by water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
And by our baptism/immersion into Him, and into His death, burial, and resurrection, (Rom 6:3-7), we can be washed of past sin by His blood.
Can you show the word "Messiah" in 1 John 5 ?
Provide them again, if you would be so kind.
A real repentance from sin, will result in a life without sin.
After reading post # 1, I agree with his point that baby baptism does not regenerate a baby.
In that case, your salvation should be manifested to everyone you meet for the rest of your life.
Are His words regarding obedience to the Pharisees applicable to us ?
John's "commission" has indeed expired.
God will find those who have really repented of sin, and been washed of past sins, to have that worthy status you refer to.
Love is still pertinent in the NT.
You incorrectly referred to the lax servant of the Luke 12:45 parable as Christians.
There was no NC yet.
Much of what Luke wrote, was from witnesses of Jesus' ministry on earth during the OT.
Are you still preaching circumcision ?
I can only trust that, by the grace of God, Paul completed his life maintaining his initial repentance from sin.
You have no way to prove that POV.
To whom did Jesus grant the gift of the Holy Ghost, before He was resurrected from the dead ?
Please cite from whence you saw me write..."Conflating the blood with water which, according to you, is just a "waste of time".
One step before the next.
That is such a leap from the statement I just wrote.
Why run then ?
The blasphemy of the Holy Ghost cannot be washed away by the blood of Christ at baptism in His name.
1 John 5:8 says they agree in one.
And that's your opinion.
Yes, that is exactly my point.
Matt 25:31-46 is about the final judgement of all people. The point is, that some will go to eternal punishment and the righteous to eternal life. But, what determines who is righteous and who isn't? It isn't works, as Matt 7 makes clear; it's about those who have a relationship with Jesus, the evidence of which are good works, as pointed out in Matt 25.
If there is no faith, that's a problem. Sometimes, we temporarily go through bouts of low faith. That's normal. of It is reason to be concerned. But the fact that you are concerned may also be considered evidence. Evidences vary. Are you growing in your faith, and your understanding? Some who plant seeds don't always get to see the fruit of their labor. One plants, another waters, yet another harvests. Does the truth matter to you. Do you strive for it? The fruit of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the evidence that we are looking for. Not the flesh. The evidence, of fruit of the Spirit doesn't justify us. Jesus did that. Think of "justify" as a legal term. That helps.
According to you, those deeds are the "fruits worthy of repentance", they are the proof, therefore absolutely necessary qualifications for repentance, right? Then you must answer these questions, you must specify. I can presume the same, that if a man says he believes in Christ and wants to be born again, he can be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and walking in newness of life, but talk the talk is one thing, walk the walk is another.
"And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues." (Mk. 16:17) You quoted this, why don't you explain it to me?
Then go read the OP, I don't owe you an answer.
Then what wisdom or knowledge have you gained? You keep chanting "thanks be to God", and yet you don't even know whether you're saved or not, you have to wait till the "end of the world", and meanwhile you've been lecturing me on repentance and remission of sins! If you have truly repented your sins and lived in Christ, what are you still afraid of? Why "thanks be to God" instead of "fears be to God"?
How about deem yourself as "in confusion" and/or "in uncertanty" as long as you don't know whether you're saved or not?
No you're not required, because only the saved run the race, there's neither race nor prize for the unsaved.
Then what were you squawking at?
Your version is work-based false religion, you have no idea what you're talking about as long as you don't know whether you're saved or not. These are all empty theological platitutes backed by no testimony from experience.
I ask you again, why are you still quoting Paul whose salvation you've repeated denied? What credibility does he have to you?
I can show it to you in 1 Jn. 5:1 - "Christ", Christos, is Greek for "messiah".
Go read Ananias's word, if you're so eager to know.
Then how do you know that? Where is the blessed assurance? Where's your precious knowledge of that as a result of your "fear of the Lord"?
You're in no position to declare anybody innocent or guilty. Besides, sin is human nature, not any particular behavior.
No comment, that's between you and God.
Read it again, his words in Lk. 12 were for his disciples, not the pharisees. Do you consider yourself a disciple?
Good, then water baptism is not necessary for salvation.
But I'm not asking God, I'm asking you - do you have that worthy status? If you have been really living a sinless life, and you have abundant knowledge resulted from your "fear of God", surely you should know, right? So come on, enlighten me. Oh wait, you can't, 'cause you're still living in the lurch, you have to wait till the end of days to find out!
I wasn't asking about love, I was asking about your "fear of God".
You incorrectly denied Jesus's teaching. Whoever he called a servant is a Christian, either drunk or sober.
Yes there was, he just made it. You're denying his own words as much as you've been denying Ananias's.
No, those are in the NT. See, this is the result of you picking and choosing what you want to read from the Scripture and what you don't.
I've never mentioned anything remotely related to circumcision, you keep bringing it up, and yet you have the audacity to accuse me of "sidetracking". Here's some unsolicited advice for you: You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Then you have no trust in God and his prerogative.
The ethiopian eunuch was a living proof, he believed first and got baptized later.
When did Jesus grant the gift of the Holy Ghost to John the Baptist? The reverse is true - Holy Ghost was granted to Jesus upon John's baptism.
You said it yourself that baptism is a waste of time, yet also "washing away sins", those are contradictory statements.
And I've told you 1 Jn. 5 is about bearing witness of Jesus's messiahship, not baptism.
Because the same Peter in the same sermon declared that believing - not baptizing - in the name of the Lord gets you saved.
No it's not.
For the prize.
Then why did you commit it by attributing the Holy Spirit's saving power to water baptism?
No, the context is heaven and earth bearing witness of Jesus's messiahship, it's about Jesus, not you or me or anybody getting baptized.
You didn't answer my question.
Those "deeds" are the results OF repentance.
Answer my questions first.
Hmmm.
Thank you for asking.
My final judgement is but a minor thing to me now, as I navigate through this icky world.
My "Thanks be to God"s glorify my Savior and His Father, after I write something they are responsible for.
Alright...I can tell you are tiring of this subject, so I am going to take some time off from it.
Or maybe, I've poked one hole after another in your false doctrines, you've got nothing else to defend your position in this "subject", nothing of any real substance or insight. Adieu.