Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[Corinth77777]

Nettles states, “Baptism itself does not remove the damnable filth but expresses one’s confidence that only the propitiatory death of Christ saves,” and that Baptism is a “clear symbol of the saving reality…” (28)Yet the Greek text cannot be denied for what it states. The Greek makes a clear declaration that νῦν σῴζει βάπτισμα, or Baptism now saves. This βάπτισμα is said to now [νῦν]save [σῴζει]. σῴζει occurs in the present indicative active, meaning that it is currently saving. It is not restricted to a specific one time event. Rather, this Baptism now and still and will save.

Now looking at the 1 Chapter of 1 Peter-
These people received the Spirit already.

Which idicates to me that there is an immersion, union or identification that continually saves-

And my speculation would be, that it is: identification, immersed in, or union with God: The Holy Trinity.

So How might this be put together with the version that says: And baptism, of which this is an image, now gives you salvation, not by washing clean the flesh, but by making you free from the sense of sin before God, through the coming again of Jesus Christ from the dead;

Go back to this passage:
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
Gal 2
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

So I speculate its not this ritual washing, but a Spiritual cleansing of the conscience...which is continually cleansed as we remain in Christ who is at the right hand of the father....

 

[Randy]

Can you show some scriptures from Acts where someone "called on the name of the Lord" that were not during water baptism in the name of the Lord for the remission of past sins ?

And you will be, if you turn from sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

Without faith, none of the Lord's commands are doable.
Without faith, we won't turn permanently from sin.
Without faith, our baptism in the name of the Lord won't wash away past sins.
Without faith, we will never endure faithfully until the end.

Man must react to what the Lord has provided...to be saved.

? What does the Holy Spirit have to do with what I posted ?

Your doctrine is that water baptism in the name of the Lord is not necessary for salvation.
I disagree.

I don't need to show something else. You position is those who believe and call on the Lord can't or won't be forgiven their sins unless they add baptism in water. I disagree. And you don't need to show without faith... I have stated faith is the key. My position is a person can call on the Lord with faith and be forgiven of their sins by HIM. So the possibility exists in salvation apart from water baptism for someone who believes in Jesus as Lord. That is my answer to the OP question. Its not going to change.

This calling was shown and is spelled out/defined and I didn't read and baptized in water.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[JLB]

The idea that being "born of water" in John 3:5 refers to natural birth, we must first examine Nicodemus' confusion

The words of Jesus are the truth.

No such scripture says born again of water.

Nothing here about baptism.

The context and explanation is found in verse 26.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Jesus plainly explains what He means by “born of water” and “born of the Spirit”.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of water - That which is born of the flesh
Born of Spirit - that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[Corinth77777]

.

Now looking at the 1 Chapter of 1 Peter-
These people received the Spirit already.

Which idicates to me that there is an immersion, union or identification that continually saves-

And my speculation would be, that it is: identification, immersed in, or union with God: The Holy Trinity.

So How might this be put together with the version that says: And baptism, of which this is an image, now gives you salvation, not by washing clean the flesh, but by making you free from the sense of sin before God, through the coming again of Jesus Christ from the dead;

Go back to this passage:
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
Gal 2
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

So I speculate its not this ritual washing, but a Spiritual cleansing of the conscience...which is continually cleansed as we remain in Christ who is at the right hand of the father....

Go back to this passage:
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
Gal 2
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

So I speculate its not this ritual washing, but a Spiritual cleansing of the conscience...which is continually cleansed as we remain in Christ who is at the right hand of the father....
...............................
Being made alive by/in the Spirit- this is my speculation that this is the baptism, immersion, or identification with .....that save us now.

if He was made alive in the Spirit, then " in" could indicate the location.

This thought brings me to what happen before the foundation- what does it mean- slain before the foundation of the world?

Sounds like the word made flesh, or something in the mind of God .

Another words rather Christ spoke through Noah
Or the other hand, after He enter the world physically and went down into the graves to set the captives free.

I don't need to show something else. You position is those who believe and call on the Lord can't or won't be forgiven their sins unless they add baptism in water. I disagree. And you don't need to show without faith... I have stated faith is the key. My position is a person can call on the Lord with faith and be forgiven of their sins by HIM. So the possibility exists in salvation apart from water baptism for someone who believes in Jesus as Lord. That is my answer to the OP question. Its not going to change.

This calling was shown and is spelled out/defined and I didn't read and baptized in water.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Exactly, Faith is the Key
As I shared with Hope2- that is probably how many were saved (at their baptism) they believed God could cleanse with water.

However I was water baptized, but later after repenting confessing numerous times and seeking God by not doing thing for man but for God He delivered me..and I knew my sins were forgiven because of the peace and Joy He gave me.
And sense the kingdom is not eating nor drinking but peace and Joy in the Holyghost I later knew what I had.

As said earlier, sense circumcision was counted to the Gentiles who were without the law who kept the law. Then wouldnt Water baptism be accounted to those who die to self and live for God...? WELL THOSE WHO RECEIVED THE HOLYGHOST BEFORE WATER BAPTISM PROVES THIS...

 

[My Rock]

In Acts 2:37-38 (KJV), we see a direct and divine response to the question of salvation. The crowd, "pricked in their heart," asks Peter and the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Peter, now filled with the Holy Spirit after the Day of Pentecost, gives a divinely inspired answer, rooted not in the works of the Law but in the command of the Spirit: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (It clearly takes both), and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

These steps—repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, and receiving the Holy Spirit—are not legalistic works of the Old Testament law (such as circumcision or ritualistic observances), but a new covenant response under the grace and command of Jesus Christ. These actions represent a faith-based response to the Gospel, fulfilling the promises of salvation that were prophesied throughout Scripture and inaugurated by Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection.

Repentance:​

Repentance is the first step, a turning away from sin and a transformation of the heart, aligning with God's will. It is not a work of merit but an expression of faith in response to God's call to salvation. It demonstrates the sinner's acknowledgment of sin and the need for God's forgiveness.

Baptism in Jesus' Name:​

Baptism in Jesus’ name for the remission of sins is essential and commanded by Jesus Himself (Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16). This baptism is not a ritualistic work but an act of obedience through faith. It symbolizes the believer's identification with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:3-4). By being baptized in the name of Jesus, the believer is united with Christ and experiences the cleansing power of His blood, washing away sins. This is a command that follows the spiritual authority Peter received from the Holy Spirit, and it’s a response that reflects faith, not a legal requirement of the Law.

Receiving the Holy Spirit:​

Receiving the Holy Spirit is the culmination of the salvation process. It is a gift from God, not something earned through works. It is the fulfillment of the promise Jesus spoke of in John 14:16-17 and Acts 1:8, where the believer receives the indwelling presence of God Himself. This is the new birth of the Spirit that Jesus taught in John 3:5-6, an essential part of entering the Kingdom of God.

In summary, Acts 2:37-38 outlines the New Testament pattern of salvation, not as a work of the law but as a commandment of faith and obedience. It is a response to the finished work of Christ, where repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Spirit are not human works but the means by which one participates in the saving grace of God. This is the message Peter delivered under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, establishing the New Covenant experience of salvation in Jesus' name.

 

[My Rock]

The words of Jesus are the truth.

No such scripture says born again of water.

Nothing here about baptism.

The context and explanation is found in verse 26.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Jesus plainly explains what He means by “born of water” and “born of the Spirit”.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of water - That which is born of the flesh
Born of Spirit - that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of water - That which is born of the flesh (NO not born of flesh but crucifying and burying Flesh)

In response to the claim that “born of water” in John 3:5 refers to natural birth (i.e., being born of the flesh), we must carefully examine both the context of the passage and the broader scriptural teaching on baptism. First, Jesus says in John 3:5, “Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.” If "born of water" referred to natural birth, Jesus’ statement would be redundant, as all humans are naturally born. The phrase "unless" indicates a necessary condition, meaning that Jesus is pointing to something beyond mere physical birth. He is speaking of a spiritual transformation, not a natural one.

The claim that "born of water" refers to natural birth based on John 3:6—“that which is born of flesh is flesh”—misinterprets the text. Verse 6 contrasts the fleshly or natural birth with being “born of the Spirit,” but it does not define "born of water" as natural birth. Rather, Jesus uses this contrast to distinguish between the natural (fleshly) life and the new spiritual life that is required for entry into the Kingdom of God. Being “born of water” is tied to the act of baptism, which involves the burial of the sinful flesh under the waters of baptism in Jesus’ name, thereby identifying with Christ’s death and burial.

In Romans 6:3-4, Paul explains that baptism represents burial with Christ: “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” Here, baptism is not about natural birth but about the spiritual death to the flesh and resurrection to new life. Colossians 2:12 further confirms this by saying, “buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God.” This symbolic act of burial through water baptism signifies the putting away of the old sinful nature (the flesh) and rising in newness of life in Christ, which parallels being “born of water.”

Additionally, 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism “now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.” Baptism is not a fleshly action; it is the spiritual act that connects us to the cleansing power of Christ’s blood, as we are baptized in His name for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

Therefore, “born of water” cannot be reduced to natural birth (flesh), as this does not align with the scriptural emphasis on baptism as part of the new birth process. Instead, being “born of water” refers to being buried in baptism, where the flesh is symbolically put to death and the believer rises to new life through the Spirit, just as Christ was raised from the dead. Thus, John 3:5 is pointing to the necessity of both water baptism and the Spirit’s indwelling for entering the Kingdom of God, not merely a physical, fleshly birth.

 

[JLB]

Born of water - That which is born of the flesh (NO not born of flesh but crucifying and burying Flesh)

Born of flesh refers to natural birth.

The context of Jesus’s teaching is about birth; being born again.

Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:3-6

The context is about birth; being born again.


Jesus uses natural birth (earthly things) to teach Nicodemus about spiritual birth (heavenly things).

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12


No one is saved by being dunked in water.

We are saved when we believe, then after we believe and are saved, we are baptized in water as an outward expression of our identification with Christ and being dead to this world and alive to Him.


John used the unique phrase again in 1 John to teach about the virgin birth of Christ.


This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6

• This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood.

Jesus Christ came into this world by water and blood.

Not just by water, but by water and blood.

Everyone comes into this world by water.

Only Jesus Christ came into this world by water and blood.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No, Jesus baptizes in Holy Spirit and fire, Matt. 3:11, that's the baptism that saves. What is impossible for man is possible for God.

Will the Holy Spirit reside in a defiled "temple" ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I don't need to show something else. You position is those who believe and call on the Lord can't or won't be forgiven their sins unless they add baptism in water. I disagree. And you don't need to show without faith... I have stated faith is the key. My position is a person can call on the Lord with faith and be forgiven of their sins by HIM. So the possibility exists in salvation apart from water baptism for someone who believes in Jesus as Lord. That is my answer to the OP question. Its not going to change.

This calling was shown and is spelled out/defined and I didn't read and baptized in water.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

If you can't show a POV in scripture, the POV is yours alone.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Will the Holy Spirit reside in a defiled "temple" ?

The Holy Spirit goes wherever it wills like the wind.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

In Acts 2:37-38 (KJV), we see a direct and divine response to the question of salvation. The crowd, "pricked in their heart," asks Peter and the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Peter, now filled with the Holy Spirit after the Day of Pentecost, gives a divinely inspired answer, rooted not in the works of the Law but in the command of the Spirit: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (It clearly takes both), and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

These steps—repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, and receiving the Holy Spirit—are not legalistic works of the Old Testament law (such as circumcision or ritualistic observances), but a new covenant response under the grace and command of Jesus Christ. These actions represent a faith-based response to the Gospel, fulfilling the promises of salvation that were prophesied throughout Scripture and inaugurated by Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection.

Repentance:​

Repentance is the first step, a turning away from sin and a transformation of the heart, aligning with God's will. It is not a work of merit but an expression of faith in response to God's call to salvation. It demonstrates the sinner's acknowledgment of sin and the need for God's forgiveness.

Baptism in Jesus' Name:​

Baptism in Jesus’ name for the remission of sins is essential and commanded by Jesus Himself (Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16). This baptism is not a ritualistic work but an act of obedience through faith. It symbolizes the believer's identification with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:3-4). By being baptized in the name of Jesus, the believer is united with Christ and experiences the cleansing power of His blood, washing away sins. This is a command that follows the spiritual authority Peter received from the Holy Spirit, and it’s a response that reflects faith, not a legal requirement of the Law.

Receiving the Holy Spirit:​

Receiving the Holy Spirit is the culmination of the salvation process. It is a gift from God, not something earned through works. It is the fulfillment of the promise Jesus spoke of in John 14:16-17 and Acts 1:8, where the believer receives the indwelling presence of God Himself. This is the new birth of the Spirit that Jesus taught in John 3:5-6, an essential part of entering the Kingdom of God.

In summary, Acts 2:37-38 outlines the New Testament pattern of salvation, not as a work of the law but as a commandment of faith and obedience. It is a response to the finished work of Christ, where repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Spirit are not human works but the means by which one participates in the saving grace of God. This is the message Peter delivered under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, establishing the New Covenant experience of salvation in Jesus' name.

The way you phrase it as a formula, you've turned it into a legalistic work. As long as you ignore the issues I raised in post #417, water baptism is a church tradition subject to human manipulation. Here's a simple scenario - I do have genuinely repented, and I wanna get baptized, I come to a church, then surprise, surprise, I am told that baptism service is only available for church members and their immediate families who donate to the church regularly, outsiders must pay a fee. If I do pay the fee and get baptized, is it valid? Does this baptism have any saving power? I have faithfully and obediently followed every "step" in your formula, do I receive the Holy Spirit immediately when I emerge out of the water?

 

[Corinth77777]

Actually it has everything thing to do with being born of water.

No such scripture says born again of water.

Good point
I wonder why people use the terms born from above instead of born again?mmmm

Check out the bottom notes here

The Gk word ἄνωθεν [anwqen] can mean both “again” and “from above....

NETBible: John 3:3

The context and explanation is found in verse 26.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Jesus plainly explains what He means by “born of water” and “born of the Spirit”.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of water - That which is born of the flesh
Born of Spirit - that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Very simple, even a Pharisee could understand.

 

[My Rock]

The way you phrase it as a formula, you've turned it into a legalistic work. As long as you ignore the issues I raised in post #417, water baptism is a church tradition subject to human manipulation. Here's a simple scenario - I do have genuinely repented, and I wanna get baptized, I come to a church, then surprise, surprise, I am told that baptism service is only available for church members and their immediate families who donate to the church regularly, outsiders must pay a fee. If I do pay the fee and get baptized, is it valid? Does this baptism have any saving power? I have faithfully and obediently followed every "step" in your formula, do I receive the Holy Spirit immediately when I emerge out of the water?

It's important to clarify that the steps outlined in Acts 2:37-38—repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, and receiving the Holy Spirit—are not a rigid formula or legalistic work, but rather a faith-based response to God's call to salvation. These steps reflect the application of the New Covenant, and they are rooted in the grace of Jesus Christ, not in human merit or tradition. The idea of someone charging a fee for baptism or creating church traditions around it would be seen as a distortion of the true biblical commandment, not reflective of the essential nature of baptism as expressed in the Scriptures.

When Peter gave the command to "repent and be baptized" (Acts 2:38), he was not introducing a man-made formula, but rather declaring the divinely inspired response to those who had faith and sought salvation. The power of baptism does not lie in the human act or the policies of a church, but in obedience to God's command and faith in the name of Jesus Christ. Colossians 2:12 explains that in baptism, "we are buried with Him through faith in the working of God." This means that baptism in Jesus' name is not merely an outward ritual or something subject to church manipulation, but a supernatural act of identifying with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

If a church were to charge a fee for baptism or limit access to it, it would be going against the free gift of salvation offered through Christ. Baptism is not about paying a price or following human regulations, but about obedience to God’s command. The act itself, when done in faith and in the name of Jesus, carries the promise of remission of sins. If a person sincerely repents and seeks baptism, regardless of the human circumstances around them, their faith and obedience are what matter before God. The power lies in the name of Jesus and in the work of the Holy Spirit, not in any human-imposed obstacles.

As for receiving the Holy Spirit, it is not bound by the precise moment of baptism. While some believers in the New Testament received the Holy Spirit at the moment of baptism (Acts 2:38, Acts 10:44-48), others received the Holy Spirit prior to baptism (Acts 10:44-48) or afterward through the laying on of hands (Acts 8:14-17). The key is that the Holy Spirit is given as a gift by God’s grace, and He honors sincere faith and obedience to His word.

It’s not about a rigid formula, but about trusting in the grace of God, following the biblical plan of salvation, and understanding that salvation is a spiritual transaction between the believer and God—not something that can be manipulated by church policies or fees. If one follows the command to repent, be baptized in Jesus’ name, and receive the Holy Spirit, this is in full alignment with the New Testament teaching and the New Covenant plan of salvation that God has provided.

Not accepting this TRUTH by faith you are just as guilty for Christ's death as the Pharisees of His day and those who shouted "Crucify Him."

 

[Hopeful 2]

The Holy Spirit goes wherever it wills like the wind.

It won't reside in a defiled man.
That man must turn from sin and be washed of them in order to even be heard asking for the gift of the Holy Ghost.