Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[Hopeful 2]

But how is it invalid if it's absolutely required for salvation? How much and for how long should the baby sin so that they could repent and have their sins washed away?

Repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, are required for the salvation of those who once sinned.
And still, there is the enduring faithfully until the end to contend with.

 

[Corinth77777]

One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[Hopeful 2]

One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Like prophets, we can tell from whom a doctrine originates by its fruit.

 

[Corinth77777]

Question

Like prophets, we can tell from whom a doctrine originates by its fruit.

What are the fruits?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, are required for the salvation of those who once sinned.
And still, there is the enduring faithfully until the end to contend with.

Don't give me the runaround. Answer the question - how a "sinless" baby is supposed to be saved, since bapstim is only for the repentant sinners, and it's absolutely necessary for salvation?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Question

What are the fruits?

The defining fruit of a bad doctrine is that it tolerates, or accommodates, sin.
The defining fruit of God's doctrine is love, and the glorification of God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Don't give me the runaround. Answer the question - how a "sinless" baby is supposed to be saved, since bapstim is only for the repentant sinners, and it's absolutely necessary for salvation?

A baby has committed no sin.
What does it need to be saved from ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

A baby has committed no sin.
What does it need to be saved from ?

From burning in hell, as long as Jesus is the only way to God, and baptism in his name is absolutely "necessary" for salvation.

 

[Hopeful 2]

From burning in hell, as long as Jesus is the only way to God, and baptism in his name is absolutely "necessary" for salvation.

Why would a baby burn in hell ?
It has not committed any sin that would separate it from God.

What is God's salvation from ?
The wages of sin.

 

[Corinth77777]

The defining fruit of a bad doctrine is that it tolerates, or accommodates, sin.

Let's also add that a bad doctrine ALLOWS people to judge others AND GOES AGAINST Scriptures like: John 3:16..... " whosoever believes will not perish"....
And
Romans 4:5
"However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness."



AND ADDs TO SCRIPTURE, OR PUT THE CREATOR IN A BOX WHERE INFORMATION IS LIMITED TO SPECULATION

Bad doctrine goes against this passage, especially if one is judging.

Who are you to judge another man's servant?" is a verse from the Bible Romsns 14 The verse continues, "It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand".

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Why would a baby burn in hell ?
It has not committed any sin that would separate it from God.

What is God's salvation from ?
The wages of sin.

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (Jn. 15:6) I don't wish any baby to burn in hell, but the Lord's word is clear, Jesus is the only way, he didn't exempt any baby. If baptism is necessary, then infant baptism must be valid, or babies won't have access to God. You can't denounce infant baptism while upholding baptism as a hard requirement to go to heaven.

 

[Corinth77777]

Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

But scripture is Silent on many of our Speculations.

IF water baptism was so cut and dry
Then their wouldnt be arguments all over the world.

One needs to consider that people do not act passed their understanding.

No one just believes something is true without healthy knowledge.

But the fact is God can do and work anyway He wants....according to His will for any generation, even where there is a shortage of knowledge.

And He doesn't have to wait until we get it all right.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Let's also add that a bad doctrine ALLOWS people judge others

For sure, as we are to judge just as we want to be judged.

AND GOES AGAINST Scriptures like: John 3:16..... " whosoever believes will not perish"....

That is correct.
Do you believe that people who steal, murder, and tell lies, actually believe in Him?
I don't.

And
Romans 4:5

The works of the Law will not garner salvation.
If they could have, there would not have been a need for a new covenant.

However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Yep, again showing that the works of the Law that Paul was referring, to can't provide salvation.

AND ADDs TO SCRIPTURE, OR PUT THE CREATOR IN A BOX WHERE INFORMATION IS LIMITED TO SPECULATION

I thank God or making the bible speculation free.

Bad doctrine goes against this passage, especially if one is judging
Who are you to judge another man's servant?" is a verse from the Bible Romsns 14 The verse continues, "It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand".

If the judgement is unjust, you are correct.

 

[Corinth77777]

I'm really looking to study truth. But when people automatically dismisses what is clearly shown. Then can you really reason with them.

So moving on my points have been reasonable proven.

 

[Corinth77777]

I'm really looking to study truth. But when people automatically dismisses what is clearly shown. Then can you really reason with them.

So moving on my points have been reasonable proven.

No more can be gained from these conversations..so no need to read..points have been reasonably, and logically proven. So time to move on ..peace

If it helps " you right, Im wrong"

 

[Hopeful 2]

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (Jn. 15:6)

As non-sinning babies are not alienated from God, their salvation is assured.

I don't wish any baby to burn in hell, but the Lord's word is clear, Jesus is the only way, he didn't exempt any baby.

It seems you see no difference between babies and sinners.

If baptism is necessary, then infant baptism must be valid, or babies won't have access to God. You can't denounce infant baptism while upholding baptism as a hard requirement to go to heaven.

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins is necessary for the salvation of the truly repentant.
But for those who have committed no sin, there is no need of repentance or baptism.

You are really being Pharisaic about this.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I'm really looking to study truth. But when people automatically dismisses what is clearly shown. Then can you really reason with them.

So moving on my points have been reasonable proven.

What is your point ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

As non-sinning babies are not alienated from God, their salvation is assured.

Did Jesus exempt babies in there? Or anywhere else? No one means no one. In your logic, abortionists and other child killers should be saints since they prevented "non-sinning babies" from sinning by sending them straight to heaven - instead of depriving them the opportunity of knowing Jesus for real salvation.

It seems you see no difference between babies and sinners.

Because there is none. A baby is born but not born again.

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins is necessary for the salvation of the truly repentant.
But for those who have committed no sin, there is no need of repentance or baptism.

Then baptism is NOT neceessary for salvation. Sin is in human nature, and you don't understand either.

You are really being Pharisaic about this.

I but exposed a logical fallacy in your theory which you can't skirt around.

 

[WIP]

Maybe this should be given its own thread but something caught my attention as I was studying the topic of baptism in Scriptures.

Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:3-4 NKJV

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:26-27 NKJV

In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
Colossians 2:11-12 NKJV

Now as the people were in expectation, and all reasoned in their hearts about John, whether he was the Christ or not, John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Luke 3:15-16 NKJV

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, which, He said, “You have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Acts 1:4-5 NKJV

I may not know precisely what this means but as can be seen, baptism is much more than just an outward thing and more than just a work we do. We are baptized into Christ, into His death and resurrection, with the Holy Spirit,... Jesus, John, Peter, Phillip, and Paul all instructed that it be done so it would seem to be the right thing to do.

 

[donadams]

What's really negative of that nature is clinging onto an unbiblical doctrine and doubling down to justify the effort you've made to defend it. For the record, I've never rejected baptism, I pointed out in my first post in this thread that baptism is a public declaration of faith in Christ, but you have to have faith in Christ first, you can't supercede belief in the gospel with water baptism and sell it as a requirement for salvation.

You correctly identified the FULL redemptive work of Christ is His death, burial and resurrection, if we were to imitate Christ, to be comformed to his image, then the old self must be crucified with Christ, all the sins must be laid at the cross, if the temple is still corrupted, God couldn't use it, that's what repentance is all about, right? It is written: "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." (Gal. 2:20) It does NOT say "I have been baptized in Christ", because baptism only symbolizes this inner transformation which has already completed by the Holy Spirit.

I pointed out in my first post in this thread that baptism is a public declaration of faith in Christ

Where does scripture say this?