What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

Status
Not open for further replies.
WIP said:
Perhaps rather than wondering if baptism is necessary for salvation the thought should be that baptism is necessary because of salvation.
Click to expand...
I can agree with this.

However, when people preach that baptism is necessary to salvation, that is an issue and another gospel.
 
LeviR said:
Original sin is another term not found in the Bible.
If you would like to know how sin entered the world, the Bible says it was by one man, the man Adam.
Anything else?
Click to expand...
This is not the thread for total depravity.

Please start a new thread and we can discuss.
 
Soldiers said:
The thief on the cross and Noah is the perfect example that disproves that water baptism is needed for salvation.

I have been baptized twice, and I can assure you that I was still going straight to hell if I had never repented and changed my ways. Water baptism basically teaches that any unrepentant Center can just dip himself in water by a pastor in the name of Jesus Christ, and he's automatically on his way to heaven.

Man heaven is way too easy lol...
Click to expand...
Good morning Soldiers, I was thinking about what you are saying from:
WalterandDebbie said:
It seems to me that you are changing what The Apostles Doctrine are you? Do you know the history of Paul's life at his conversion?
Click to expand...
The thief on the cross and Noah is the perfect example that disproves that water baptism is needed for salvation.

I have been baptized twice, and I can assure you that I was still going straight to hell if I had never repented and changed my ways. Water baptism basically teaches that any unrepentant Center can just dip himself in water by a pastor in the name of Jesus Christ, and he's automatically on his way to heaven.

Man heaven is way too easy lol...

But what does the above have to do with anything?
 
WalterandDebbie said:
Good morning Soldiers, I was thinking about what you are saying from:

The thief on the cross and Noah is the perfect example that disproves that water baptism is needed for salvation.

I have been baptized twice, and I can assure you that I was still going straight to hell if I had never repented and changed my ways. Water baptism basically teaches that any unrepentant Center can just dip himself in water by a pastor in the name of Jesus Christ, and he's automatically on his way to heaven.

Man heaven is way too easy lol...

But what does the above have to do with anything?
Click to expand...
I was disproving the unbiblical theory that baptism by water is necessary for salvation, I gave two biblical examples and my own personal experience.
 
electedbyhim said:
There are some who believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation based on a handful of Scriptures.
Click to expand...
Water baptism is necessary but not suffcient, it's a ritual that imitates natural birth from the womb, and it symbolizes a rebirth in the Holy Spirit. Any pastor who baptizes only baptizes with water, as John the Baptists does, only the Lord himself can baptize with the Holy Spirit. The main purpose of water baptism is a public declaration of your faith in Christ, from there on you're publicly identified as a Christian, it's not about eternal salvation.

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." (Matt. 3:16)
 
I don't understand all I know
But these are some thoughts.
Did Jesus command water baptism?
If He did He can use the water to cleanse.

Water Baptism is not a work of righteousness. But rather, in my opinion could be a response to the one who is righteous. Also, if one has been cleansed on the inside then the outward washing would be a manifestation leading to remember to live holy on the outside.

E said to P if you really BELIEVE you may be baptized.

Why? Why might P have said that- and what was the Eunuch thinking the water would do?

Maybe it is His body being washed, because of what He believed in His heart.

Wherewhich He then had a clear conscious b4 God. That's a very good beginning to start afresh.

This passage came to mind:Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Makes me wonder about the Sprinkling of the blood on things.

Also makes me wonder about after the Resurrection when Jesus rose in bodily form what He does with His blood ...

But what about that passage...Isn't this what happens when we remain in Him? We are kept by His bood?

So if we say you must be baptized in water to be saved- my thoughts would be this- Does the scripture say that is the only way or a prescibe way for what ever Peter loosed on heaven was loosed on earth. And a prescibe way that had meaning in their day but has lost it's meaning in ours.
But to make a Formula would put God in a box
saying that this is the "only" way in which God works.

FOR I myself was water Baptized at 17 I think and didn't experience forgiveness untill later.
More so As I did what was pleasing to God.

So I believe God is the one who can make one stand based on their knowledge. For if you never had correct knowledge then I believe God meets people where they are at.

In the End it is God who saves and He can use what ever He wants to save. It's all about trusting Him. For without faith its impossible to please God.

For say you do what is prescribed by its very meaning ...as repent and believe the Gospel..and then live according to it. Example: Then wouldn't the uncircumcision benifit the blessing of the circumcised?
 
LeviR said:
Nicodemus wasn’t confused about how babies are born. He was confused about being born again.
This is how it happpens:
The man repents of his sins, dies to those sins by going down into the water and comes back again out of the water having his sins forgiven. He is born of water.

Then, when the man actually dies, he goes down into the grave and is then resurrected from the grave to die no more. Born of the Spirit.
Click to expand...
That might be how it can happen,
But that's not what it says

Flesh gives birth to flesh...is another way to say what is physical births what is physical

And what is Spiritual births what is Spiritual.

For why did He not understand what was Spiritual because He had yet to receive the Spirit.

It's just what it says...a physical baby come from water. AND as already noted in passage He who came from heaven. Hence, one who is born of the Spirit is the one who is born from the one who comes from heaven.

Why was He dumbfounded being that He was a teacher of the law?
 
Fastfredy0 said:
??? what does Paul have to do with the question???

Paul was baptized
Acts 9:18 Immediately something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he got up and was baptized;

and Paul baptized others:
1 Corinthians 1:14-16 “[14] I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; [15] Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. [16] And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.”
Click to expand...
I'd love for you to share the scripture where Paul was baptized with water when you have a chance. Tks
 
Corinth77777 said:
I'd love for you to share the scripture where Paul was baptized with water when you have a chance. Tks
Click to expand...
I did ... Acts 9:18 Immediately something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he got up and was baptized; (Saul was Paul's original name)
 
electedbyHim said:
There are some who believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation based on a handful of Scriptures.

Baptismal regeneration is the doctrine that baptism results in regeneration of the subject baptized. Usually based upon John 3:5 and Titus 3:5.

I have concluded that Baptismal Regeration is a work added to Salvation and consider it a different Gospel.

Studying these scriptures and reading commentaries shed much light for me on this subject. I turn to men of God who are fluent in the original languages and understand hermeneutics more than I ever can.

There are many different interpretations of this verse including two births (physical and spiritual), water as a symbol for Holy Spirit or the word of God. I would like to focus on what some would believe is Baptismal Regenration (born of water).

There are other Scriptures that can be addressed as well.

This should be a good start.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


John 3:5 does not teach Baptismal Regeneration. In fact, it is not even referring to baptism! In John 3, Jesus makes the statement that, “Unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God” (3:3). In response, Nicodemus asks, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” (3:4). Jesus’ answer is, “Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God” (3:5). In the context of this conversation it is more natural to understand Jesus’ use of the word “water” as a reference to physical birth rather than baptism. As every mother knows, all children are literally born “out of water.” Therefore, when Nicodemus asked, “Can a man be born a second time from his mother’s womb?” Jesus in essence conceded that a man had to be born of water, that is, physically. Yet, He went on to insist that the second birth was spiritual in nature. Thus, John 3 does not teach that water baptism is necessary for salvation. It teaches that physical birth is. In other words, a person must be born before he can be born again. John 3:6 confirms this view, saying “that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.” That says it all.
[1]Chafer Theological Seminary. (1997; 2002). Chafer Theological Seminary Journal Volume 3


Carson has an excellent argument against this interpretation writing that "If water = baptism is so important for entering the kingdom, it is surprising that the rest of the discussion never mentions it again: the entire focus is on the work of the Spirit (v. 8), the work of the Son (vv. 14–15), the work of God himself (vv. 16–17), and the place of faith (vv. 15–16)....The Spirit plays a powerful role in John 14–16; 20:22, but there is no hint of baptism.....The entire view seems to rest on an unarticulated prejudice that every mention of water evoked instant recognition, in the minds of first-century readers, that the real reference was to baptism, but it is very doubtful that this prejudice can be sustained by the sources. Even so, this conclusion does not preclude the possibility of a secondary allusion to baptism" Borrow The Gospel according to John)

J M Boice - Unfortunately, this is not substantiated either by the text or by biblical theology. The text says nothing at all about baptism, and the Bible elsewhere teaches that no one is saved by any external rite of religion (1 Sam. 16:7; Rom. 2:28–29; Gal. 2:15, 16; 5:1–6). Baptism is a sign of what has already taken place, but it is not the agent by which it takes place.(Boice - The Gospel of John)

Kenneth Wuest - Others interpret the word “water” as referring to the rite of water baptism. But we submit that this is pure eisegesis, reading into the text something that is not there. Surely, the word “water” in itself, does not include within its meaning the idea of baptism. Furthermore, the only proper recipient of water baptism is one who has already been born again, the new-birth preceding water baptism, not the rite preceding the new birth. Again, the question arises as to how such a supernatural change as regeneration produces, could be the result of a mere ceremony.

MacArthur - Others see in the phrase born of water a reference to baptism, either that of John the Baptist, or Christian baptism. But Nicodemus would not have understood Christian baptism (which did not yet exist) nor misunderstood John the Baptist’s baptism. Nor would Jesus have refrained from baptizing people (Jn 4:2) if baptism were necessary for salvation. (See John Commentary - What Does It Mean to be Born of Water and Spirit?)
Click to expand...
How is Jesus' atoning, justifying, sanctifying, blood applied to one without being baptized into Christ and into His death ?
 
Hopeful 2 said:
How is Jesus' atoning, justifying, sanctifying, blood applied to one without being baptized into Christ and into His death ?
Click to expand...
Good question
A possible Answer:

The same way that some Gentiles called the uncircumcised that were without God, but did what many Jew did having been under the law.

By faith
While God's chosen preference may have been for a man to dip them and bring them into the kingdom, that doesn't mean that -that was the only way. God looks at the heart.
 
Corinth77777 said:
Good question
A possible Answer:
The same way that some Gentiles called the uncircumcised that were without God, but did what many Jew did having been under the law.
By faith
While God's chosen preference may have been for a man to dip them and bring them into the kingdom, that doesn't mean that -that was the only way. God looks at the heart.
Click to expand...
If one doesn't have faith that baptism washes away past sins, (Acts 2:38, 22:16) or that Jesus' blood is applied to us in order to sanctify, justify, and atone for our past sins, by that baptism, (Heb 10:10,14), what DO they have faith in ?
Faith without any corresponding reaction, isn't really faith.
 
Baptismal regeneration is the belief that baptism is necessary for salvation, or, more precisely, that regeneration does not occur until a person is water baptized. Baptismal regeneration is a tenet of numerous Christian denominations, but is most strenuously promoted by churches in the Restoration Movement, specifically the Church of Christ and the International Church of Christ.

Advocates of baptismal regeneration point to Scripture verses such as Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Galatians 3:27, and 1 Peter 3:21 for biblical support. And, granted, those verses seem to indicate that baptism is necessary for salvation. However, there are biblically and contextually sound interpretations of those verses that do not support baptismal regeneration. Please see the following articles:

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does John 3:5 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does Acts 2:38 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does Acts 22:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does Galatians 3:27 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does 1 Peter 3:21 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Advocates of baptismal regeneration typically have a four-part formula for how salvation is received. They believe that a person must believe, repent, confess, and be baptized in order to be saved. They believe this way because there are biblical passages that seem to indicate that each of these actions is necessary for salvation. For example, Romans 10:9–10 links salvation with confession. Acts 2:38 links salvation with repentance and baptism.

Repentance, understood biblically, is required for salvation. Repentance is a change of mind. Repentance, in relation to salvation, is changing your mind from rejection of Christ to acceptance of Christ. It is not a separate step from saving faith. Rather, it is an essential aspect of saving faith. One cannot receive Jesus Christ as Savior, by grace through faith, without a change of mind about who He is and what He did.

Confession, understood biblically, is a demonstration of faith. If a person has truly received Jesus Christ as Savior, proclaiming that faith to others will be a result. If a person is ashamed of Christ and/or ashamed of the message of the gospel, it is highly unlikely that the person has understood the gospel or experienced the salvation that Christ provides.

Baptism, understood biblically, is an identification with Christ. Christian baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:3–4). As with confession, if a person is unwilling to be baptized—unwilling to identify his/her life as being redeemed by Jesus Christ—that person has very likely not been made a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17) through faith in Jesus Christ.

Those who contend for baptismal regeneration and/or this four-part formula for receiving salvation do not view these actions as meritorious works that earn salvation. Repenting, confessing, etc., do not make a person worthy of salvation. Rather, the official view is that faith, repentance, confession, and baptism are “works of obedience,” things a person must do before God grants salvation. While the standard Protestant understanding is that faith is the one thing God requires before salvation is granted, those of the baptismal regeneration persuasion believe that baptism—and, for some, repentance and confession—are additional things God requires before He grants salvation.

The problem with this viewpoint is that there are biblical passages that clearly and explicitly declare faith to be the only requirement for salvation. John 3:16, one of the most well-known verses in the Bible, states, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” In Acts 16:30, the Philippian jailer asks the apostle Paul, “What must I do to be saved?” If there was ever an opportunity for Paul to present a four-part formula, this was it. Paul’s response was simple: “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). No baptism, no confession, just faith.

There are literally dozens of verses in the New Testament that attribute salvation to faith/belief with no other requirement mentioned in the context. If baptism, or anything else, is necessary for salvation, all of these verses are wrong, and the Bible contains errors and is therefore no longer worthy of our trust.

An exhaustive study of the New Testament on various requirements for salvation is not necessary. Receiving salvation is not a process or a multi-step formula. Salvation is a finished product, not a recipe. What must we do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and we will be saved.

Gotquestions.com
 
Some thought on the term..

Baptize

Immerse
Surround
And one mentioned I read on net..that could have been in the mind of those in ancient times
Is to dip in order to identify with.

Where you identify with what you are immerse into.
So How did the Israelite identify with Moses?
In the red sea?

What does Moses's name mean
Hopeful 2 said:
If one doesn't have faith that baptism washes away past sins, (Acts 2:38, 22:16) or that Jesus' blood is applied to us in order to sanctify, justify, and atone for our past sins, by that baptism, (Heb 10:10,14), what DO they have faith in ?
Faith without any corresponding reaction, isn't really faith.
Click to expand...
Hey Hope2 👋

Hope 2 ["If one doesn't have faith that baptism washes away past sins,"]

It's God who can use the water to wash away past sins.

And Baptism is still a symbol
Take circumcision as an Example. Circumcision was given to those who would keep the law.

But if gentiles who were without the law kept the law would not circumcision be counted onto them.

Now im not suggesting people not get water Baptized, but answering a question.

Recall that God is no respector of person that any body that does righteous is exceptable to Him.

So recall how there were those who received the Holy Spirit before water baptism. God made them clean...and what God sets clean let no man say is unclean. Remember Peter's dream?

So back to the example sense circumcision was applied to Gentiles as well because they kept the law even being without it, then if one does what baptisn requires then wouldnt baptism be accounted to them as well?

Line #1
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?


Do you suppose their sins were forgiven before they in the verse above received the Holyghost sense a scripture does sayeee in Act 2:

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So then did water have to do with them in line #1 receiving the Gift or God?

My answer "God" They trusted God, They had faith in God. Read and find out how they had faith?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top