That is how it is done.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?
- Thread starter electedbyHim
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Not so much "identify with", as to "partake in something with".
I partook in all that Christ did at His crucifixion, burial, and resurrection.
They all partook in the same events.
Exodus 2:10 says Pharaoh's daughter said..."And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water."
I agree, using the waters of baptism to do the work of the blood of Christ.Hey Hope2
Hope 2 ["If one doesn't have faith that baptism washes away past sins,"]
It's God who can use the water to wash away past sins.
To some it is merely a symbol, but to others it is an event full of deeds and miracles !
Not so much "would", but "should" keep the Law.
Yep.
Obedience to God is only possible for those who have put off the flesh and now walk in the Spirit.
I hope not !
It was not written that God made them clean.
No.
Baptism is our answer to our faith in God.
An act of the faithful !
Not at all.
Like Peter said in Acts 2:38, turn from sin, get washed of them, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Cornelius was a one time event used to show Peter, and those with him, that the Gentiles too were part of the body of Christ.
Faith is essential to eternal life.
Faith that God is true.
Faith that the Word put on skin and bones and was born of a virgin as Jesus.
Faith that Jesus died for the sins of men, the perfect Lamb; and was raised from the dead.
Faith in repentance from sin.
Faith in water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins,
Faith in receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Faith that scripture is unchanged since its writing.
Faith in enduring faithfully until the end.
gotquestions.org
Thank you for the correction.gotquestions.org
Sorry to butt in but He was.
Acts 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Faith and baptism are requirements of the new covenant.
Heb 9:16-17
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
How was the publican justified, Lk 18:9-14 and Lazarus Lk 16:22
Thks
Corinth77777
Member
Me point was in acient times what it meant to the people according to the net. And that was to identify with what one/ something was immersed into.
My 1st thought was seeing that his name meant drawn out ...that this they could relate to. He was put in the water to escape being murdered, and taken out of the water.
But that was just what came to me that's why I aked the question
lost me..My point was God can use anything He wants to. He happened to use water. They trusted God. It's about Faith in God.
Right, I believe it can be both depends on one knowledge about it.
Ok
Lost me in your wording
I hope not W/O the "!" For God is Judge
Peters Dream-"The voice spoke to him again, a second time, “What God has made clean, you must not consider ritually unclean!"
The rest is about that- Peter understanding His dream. Thhe he went on to say that He understood that God was not a respector of person that anyone that does righteous was acceptable to Him.
In the same way you think, I could also note that the Bible never says if one is not Baptized with water they will not be saved.
As we see in the case above: And show me plz where it says that Cornelius story was a one time event?
That is 1 thing that could be said about it, But why do you think that circumcision was any different when it comes to the point I made?
One ideal about water Baptism is it was used as a symbol to explain why one does not go on to sin. And henceforth, if one walks in the newness of life by the Spirit. Why couldn't what took place at other's water baptisms take place in the life of one not water baptized. I stand on Acts and I believe it happens today.
In your posting below, correct me if I'm wrong..but you are not equating water baptism with washing. Right?..for we know they got water baptized after receiving the Holyghost.
I expected you to be honest here...Where is it written it was a one time event?
The word is true...does it say it only happened once?
It's impossible to please God without faith
God looks at the heart. It is probable, including me, that approximately 98 percent of people don't understand what took place in water baptisn back in their culture and day.
God looks at the heart, He alone knows what's in it and where people are in reguards to Him.
Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
I dont feel it's necessary to comment on each one of those only to say that God meets people where they are at.
My one comment to the list you have above- Is the Lord works in mysterious way....
What 'net' do you refer to ?
Baptizo, from the Greek, means 'immerse or totally whelm'.
What one may identify with in baptism is having taken part in the same experience as, in this case, Jesus or Moses.
The Jews that "took part in" what Moses did, were in the desert with him.
They didn't take part in his rescue by Egyptians
In water baptism He is using water.
Men without faith will not take part in that miracle.
If it is only symbolic, it cannot be actual.
Only one or the other is true.
For those who think water baptism into Christ is only symbolic, the intended effects will not occur.
The intent of water baptism is primarily remission of past sins, but also the destruction of the old man so a new creature can be raised with Christ to walk in a new life.
OK, I see where you are coming from.
Though it was unclean animals that God was using in the vision, Peter rightly interpreted it to indicate humans too.
But that information only provided Peter with a clean conscience to enter a Gentile's home without guilt.
And even if the Gentiles were pre-deemed as clean, they still would have needed the remission of past sins, to crucify the flesh, and be reborn of God's seed, by baptism.
Do you think they were "saved" before Peter got there ?
Cornelius said the angel told him..."Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved." (Acts 11:14)
That sounds like a future event to me.
Jesus says it in Mark 16:16..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."
Peter says it in Acts 2:21..."And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Where did God give the gift of the Holy Spirit, before baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, somewhere else in scripture ?
Cornelius was the first Gentile in the new church.
Your points were off-center.
BTW our circumcision now is accomplished at baptism, when our old man is destroyed.(Rom 6:6)
As it is an actual byproduct of baptism, it is not just a symbol.
It won't take place without baptism because it is baptism that makes it occur.
Yes, as water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ will "wash away" past sins.
That is written of in Acts 22:16..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
Yes, they were baptized after God showed Peter and the other Jews that Gentiles were also welcome in the body of Christ.
They still needed the remission of sins and destruction of the old man, by baptism.
How many minutes elapsed between the Gentiles speaking in tongues and their baptisms ?
5 or 10 ?
The word is true...does it say it only happened once?
It never happened again, or it would probably have been written about.
They knew it would remit their past sins, as that was mentioned by Peter the very first time he interacted with the public. On the day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:38)
I get the impression you are just minimizing baptism's necessity.
Peter writes..."The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" (1 Peter 3:21)
Without that good conscience towards God, provided by the resurrection of Christ, (at water baptism in Jesus' name), there is no salvation.
Corinth77777
Member
I disagree on the main points, and had to stop after the third one. If you would take some time to meditate on what scripture says. And read the context of Acts with Peter's dream. Try to see outside your lens.
Then if you like reply if not Peace and blessings
Corinth77777
Member
.
Not to be confused with 911 [ bapto]The clearest example that shows
the meaning of baptizo>> is a text from the Greek poet and physician
Nicander, who lived about >>200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles
and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in
order to make a pickle, the>> vegetable should first be 'dipped'
(bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizo) in the
vinegar solution. Both.>> verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a
solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of
baptising the vegetable, produces>a permanent change.
When used in the New testament, this word more often refers to our
union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism.
Mark 16:16 'He that. believes and is baptised shall be saved'.
Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There
must be a union with Him, a real change, like the vegetable to the
Pickle
The main thing is that you get the second however you get it. Baptizo
So hopefully you see my point: is you can get the second without being dipped. However that may have been the preferrable way. I am not under estimating God in His use to make water cleanse, baptism. But by the same token I can say you under estimate God and the ability to use faith to regenerate when people continue to give their lives to Him where there might not be water, or they have did what the symbol required.
And Yes I do believe it is a symbol, but also believe that God can use the water in His way and other things for people to act on in faith.
Have you ever heard of the water of the word?
Not to be confused with 911 [ bapto]The clearest example that shows
the meaning of baptizo>> is a text from the Greek poet and physician
Nicander, who lived about >>200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles
and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in
order to make a pickle, the>> vegetable should first be 'dipped'
(bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizo) in the
vinegar solution. Both.>> verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a
solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of
baptising the vegetable, produces>a permanent change.
When used in the New testament, this word more often refers to our
union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism.
Mark 16:16 'He that. believes and is baptised shall be saved'.
Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There
must be a union with Him, a real change, like the vegetable to the
Pickle
The main thing is that you get the second however you get it. Baptizo
So hopefully you see my point: is you can get the second without being dipped. However that may have been the preferrable way. I am not under estimating God in His use to make water cleanse, baptism. But by the same token I can say you under estimate God and the ability to use faith to regenerate when people continue to give their lives to Him where there might not be water, or they have did what the symbol required.
And Yes I do believe it is a symbol, but also believe that God can use the water in His way and other things for people to act on in faith.
Have you ever heard of the water of the word?
Corinth77777
Member
Netbible
Hopeful2
And even if the Gentiles were pre-deemed as clean, they still would have needed the remission of past sins, to crucify the flesh, and be reborn of God's seed, by baptism.
I already responed to the other writings..so Im dealing with the underlined
Do you see how your thinking boxes everything up to fit your concept that God only works one way?
On one hand you are saying they are clean, on the other, presuming you have 2, you are saying they need their pass sins forgiven.
They were regenerated . If one was dead in tresspasses and sin then when you are made alive are you still in your passed sins? Mmmm
Corinth77777
Member
Peter writes..."The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" (1 Peter 3:21)
Without that good conscience towards God, provided by the resurrection of Christ, (at water baptism in Jesus' name), there is no salvation.
However one interprets this my answer is the same ..If one fulfills the symbol of baptism, wouldn't they receive the same benifits as one who was water Bapized... as the uncircumcised who kept the law. Wouldn't circumcision be counted to them.
I'm getting into this discussion late, and only having time to skim the thread. I just wanted to point out that baptism, by definition, is an action. Water is not part of the definition of "baptism". It simply means to place into, to immerse into, or the last definition, to dip into. If you apply water baptism to all scripture speaking of "baptism", you would be making a huge theological error.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit, or the new testament (new covenant) baptism, is done by Jesus, the prophesied Baptizer. With the Holy Spirit, the Agent of baptism (not water). This baptism had to wait until Jesus' death and resurrection, so His atonement, and His Righteousness, "the righteousness of God" would apply to us being made one with Him. The righteousness of God the justifies us is Jesus, in His incarnate state, living a perfectly sinless and obedient life, as both fully God, and fully man.
When we entrust our live to Jesus, and the Gospel message, Jesus, places Himself into us by way of the Holy Spirit, the seal of our inheritance. At that moment, we are one with Him, and what the Bible calls "in Christ. The legality of our salvation at that moment is completely satisfied. Our sin is atoned for. We only look to our works as an evidence. None of us can satisfy God's Law, since we have all sinned and fallen short. Our live are a package deal. The righteousness of God is imputed to us. In whole and all at once. And, we die with Jesus and our raised up with Him, born again. Spiritual rebirth. At that moment, we begin to be conformed "sanctified" to what God already recons us to be in Christ. This is the baptism that saves.
After this, we give testimony, both verbally and symbolically, by being publicly water baptized. We don't need this to be save. It's a picture, that points to spiritual truth. The spiritual truth that it points to is where the power is, not in the type. In short, you can be saved and completely justified, in Christ, born again, having never been water baptized.
These passage, many times are used as speaking of water baptism, are clearly speaking o Sprit baptism.
1 Peter 3:21. Using Noah as a type, water represents God's judgment, the Ark is a type of Jesus. A very poor illustration if he was speaking of water baptism. But a perfect illustration of Spirit baptism.
Gal. 3:23-27. Col 2:10-14. Rom. 6:3-9ish.
Out of time
peace
The baptism of the Holy Spirit, or the new testament (new covenant) baptism, is done by Jesus, the prophesied Baptizer. With the Holy Spirit, the Agent of baptism (not water). This baptism had to wait until Jesus' death and resurrection, so His atonement, and His Righteousness, "the righteousness of God" would apply to us being made one with Him. The righteousness of God the justifies us is Jesus, in His incarnate state, living a perfectly sinless and obedient life, as both fully God, and fully man.
When we entrust our live to Jesus, and the Gospel message, Jesus, places Himself into us by way of the Holy Spirit, the seal of our inheritance. At that moment, we are one with Him, and what the Bible calls "in Christ. The legality of our salvation at that moment is completely satisfied. Our sin is atoned for. We only look to our works as an evidence. None of us can satisfy God's Law, since we have all sinned and fallen short. Our live are a package deal. The righteousness of God is imputed to us. In whole and all at once. And, we die with Jesus and our raised up with Him, born again. Spiritual rebirth. At that moment, we begin to be conformed "sanctified" to what God already recons us to be in Christ. This is the baptism that saves.
After this, we give testimony, both verbally and symbolically, by being publicly water baptized. We don't need this to be save. It's a picture, that points to spiritual truth. The spiritual truth that it points to is where the power is, not in the type. In short, you can be saved and completely justified, in Christ, born again, having never been water baptized.
These passage, many times are used as speaking of water baptism, are clearly speaking o Sprit baptism.
1 Peter 3:21. Using Noah as a type, water represents God's judgment, the Ark is a type of Jesus. A very poor illustration if he was speaking of water baptism. But a perfect illustration of Spirit baptism.
Gal. 3:23-27. Col 2:10-14. Rom. 6:3-9ish.
Out of time
peace
You've gone to great lengths to denigrate water baptism's necessity.
The Ethiopian eunuch and Philip went into water for baptism.
I will keep obeying what Jesus commanded in Matt 28:19 and Mark 16:16.
I get the impression that you were not baptized, and are now trying to justify it.
Nope.
Thanks.
He does only work in one way, and Peter spoke that way in Acts 2:38.
Clean enough to enter under their roof.
Forgivingness, and the destruction of the old man and to be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4,6)
They weren't regenerated until they were raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
That happens at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Elaborate on the "symbol" of baptism, that is not baptism.
Nope.
The uncircumcised which did by nature what the Jews were tying to do by Law, after hearing of the benefits of baptism, would have jumped at the chance to have their past sins remitted.
And to be reborn to become Spiritual men and not men of the "flesh".
Back to 1 Peter 3:21...If you read it without the part in parenthesis, you get this...""The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us ... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
Baptism saves us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
How ?
By our "immersion" into His death, burial, and resurrection.
If we are not "immersed" into them, we don't partake in them.
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Onlookers are always welcome.
Agreed..."dipped, fully whelmed" is the definition for "baptizo" that I use.
Agreed, but there are scriptures that feature water in their facilitation.
The Ethiopian eunuch is a prime example.
And others that speak of water baptism AND Spirit baptism in the same paragraph (?).
Cornelius, and the twelve at Ephesus being examples.
I agree, as Spirit baptism is the gift of the Holy Ghost that Peter promised would come on those who repented of sin and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38)
Men do the first baptism, and God does the second.
I disagree, as we are made one with Him at our "immersion" into Him, His death, burial, and resurrection, using water. (Rom 6:3-7)
It is His blood that justifies us: and that justifying, sanctifying, atoning blood, is applied to us at our "immersion" in to His death. (Rom 6:3)
You are claiming that remission of past sins, and our unification with Him, are accomplished without His blood.
I cannot agree.
If your way were true, He wouldn't of had to die at all.
And it would have made 1 Peter 3:21 wrong.
I cannot agree.
I cannot agree.
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