Is baptism required for salvation?

[Edward]

Robertson's full statement on Mark 16:16 is: "

Verse 16​

And is baptized (κα βαπτισθεις). The omission of baptized with "disbelieveth" would seem to show that Jesus does not make baptism essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on disbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. Baptism is merely the picture of the new life not the means of securing it. So serious a sacramental doctrine would need stronger support anyhow than this disputed portion of Mark.

Oz

And Jesus was giving them instructions on what to say to those they preach too. He wasn't giving the requirements for salvation.

 

[Edward]

Here is the requirements for salvation.

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.../

 

[jaybo]

Biblical references???
Or is this just your opinion?
Also this part of the conversation is about the OT moves of the Spirit.

If you don't understand what I wrote, which is based entirely on Scripture, that is not my problem.

Also, who put you in charge of directing the conversation?

 

[Mungo]

Mungo,

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16).

You quoted a portion of the NT that is not recognized as NT Scripture. Therefore, it is invalid in supporting your point.

Oz

It certainly is recognised as part of the NT
Bible Gateway list over 60 translations that all have that verse in, including the KJV, AKJV and 1599 Geneva BIble.

It is

 

[GodsGrace]

Consecrated Life said:
So depending on what Jesus decides in each case , you believe it is possible for a person who loves Christ & accepts His blood shed for his own sins to end up in hell ?


Well since the question directly involves an eternity in hell, do you think that it is more in keeping with Christ's character as you know Him that He would leave the certainty of eternity hell for failing the water baptism ritual to be a matter of anyone's guess?
Or that he would spell it out directly & clearly as in , " No Water Baptism = Eternity in Hell " ?

Mungo stated that the reason why a person does not get baptized is important.

We seem to forget that Jesus said: Why do you call me Lord, and do not do as I say.

We are required to live our lives as though Jesus is Lord of our lives.

We can only be secure in our salvation if we're at the foot of the cross.

If we're at the foot of the cross, we will obey Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

If you don't understand what I wrote, which is based entirely on Scripture, that is not my problem.

Also, who put you in charge of directing the conversation?

Hi J,
Although not strictly enforced, a member should use scripture in the Theology forum. If asked, please use scripture.

THE ABOVE IS FOR EVERYONE.

 

[dwb001]

If you don't understand what I wrote, which is based entirely on Scripture, that is not my problem.

Also, who put you in charge of directing the conversation?

I am just saying what I would like to see.
For me to engage with the argument I need to know you know what you are talking about.
Are you acutely quoting scripture or just paraphrasing?
The difference may be small but I have seen people stand more on a paraphrase than the actual text.

 

[JLB]

The disciples were not filled only once on Pentecost, but many times thereafter…..The presence of the Holy Spirit is constant, but the expression of the power is episodic. (my emboldening)

Good word Mungo !

 

[Randy]

I leave that decision up to Jesus.

Its a false premise you had the truth of the matter. Those that truly love and believe in Jesus keep His commands. Those that do not obey Him don't know Him. One's actions speak louder than their words. A good tree doesn't bare bad fruit. By their fruit they are recognized.

Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

 

[Mungo]

Consecrated Life said:
So depending on what Jesus decides in each case , you believe it is possible for a person who loves Christ & accepts His blood shed for his own sins to end up in hell ?


Well since the question directly involves an eternity in hell, do you think that it is more in keeping with Christ's character as you know Him that He would leave the certainty of eternity hell for failing the water baptism ritual to be a matter of anyone's guess?
Or that he would spell it out directly & clearly as in , " No Water Baptism = Eternity in Hell " ?

I don't know the mind of God.
Only God can see into a persons heart.
What God considers loving him only God can truly know.
What God considers believing/obeying him only God can truly know.

 

[Edward]

I don't know the mind of God.
Only God can see into a persons heart.
What God considers loving him only God can truly know.
What God considers believing/obeying him only God can truly know.

But you do, don't you? It does not happen in every moment but the scripture talks about being in Christ, and Christ in us, right?

And it also talks about, you will be given what to say. Now sometimes we have carnal thoughts or even thoughts projected into our mind by the enemy. God does the same thing with us, He can put thoughts into your head too, and does. It might be a thought, it might be a scripture or whatever.

So what we have to do is to cultivate the mind of Christ in us. Which is to say, listen to Him and obey. I think He speaks to us through our conscience also.

What God considers loving Him is told to us plainly in scripture...If you Love me, you will keep My Commandments.

 

[Mungo]

But you do, don't you? It does not happen in every moment but the scripture talks about being in Christ, and Christ in us, right?

And it also talks about, you will be given what to say. Now sometimes we have carnal thoughts or even thoughts projected into our mind by the enemy. God does the same thing with us, He can put thoughts into your head too, and does. It might be a thought, it might be a scripture or whatever.

So what we have to do is to cultivate the mind of Christ in us. Which is to say, listen to Him and obey. I think He speaks to us through our conscience also.

What God considers loving Him is told to us plainly in scripture...If you Love me, you will keep My Commandments.

Wow! Do you think you are God?

 

[jaybo]

Hi J,
Although not strictly enforced, a member should use scripture in the Theology forum. If asked, please use scripture.

THE ABOVE IS FOR EVERYONE.

Okay. Thanks.

 

[jaybo]

Acts 8 tells the story of the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip. It's too long to post in its entirety, but it contains this...

"As they were going along the road, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water! What is to prevent me from being baptized?” He commanded the chariot to stop, and both of them, Philip and the eunuch, went down into the water, and Philip baptized him." Acts 8:36-38

Notice that Philip never said that the eunuch must be baptized. It was the eunuch who requested it. If baptism is necessary for salvation, why didn't Philip say so?

 

[Edward]

Wow! Do you think you are God?

No sir! I think I am, in Christ. I think that Christ is in me.

I've never done anything, I have no power. I am nobody. But I have friends in high places!

Scripture says, I am in Christ. Christ is in me, beside me, goes before me, and is my rear guard...DO we not believe this? I do. The Kingdom of the Lord is my entorouge when I go out. I have Jesus with me, the Holy Spirit, at least one Guardian Angel, a scribe Angel, and last but not least, the Father is always there also. When God is with us, who can stand against us?

Every bit of that is all scripture. But I am only of the body of Christ. The Lord is the head. HE is the decsionmaker, lol!

I have heard people make a good case for, is it not written that I said ye are gods? The idea was, since we the body of Christ we are of God so we are gods. Now I suppose that makes a wee bit of sense in a way, but they never really mentioned that, He is the Head and controls everything. His will. It would take a special kind of idiot to think that they was God! satan is an idiot. WHo would dare to usurp God Almighty?

 

[Mungo]

Acts 8 tells the story of the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip. It's too long to post in its entirety, but it contains this...

"As they were going along the road, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water! What is to prevent me from being baptized?” He commanded the chariot to stop, and both of them, Philip and the eunuch, went down into the water, and Philip baptized him." Acts 8:36-38

Notice that Philip never said that the eunuch must be baptized. It was the eunuch who requested it. If baptism is necessary for salvation, why didn't Philip say so?

Simples
The eunuch knows he must be baptised. So Philip must have told him.
The eunch sees some water (before Philip does) and asks to be baptised.

 

[dwb001]

Simples
The eunuch knows he must be baptised. So Philip must have told him.
The eunch sees some water (before Philip does) and asks to be baptised.

Rather suspect reasoning.
Where is this in the Bible? ... Or are we telling porkie pies?

 

[Randy]

I don't know the mind of God.
Only God can see into a persons heart.
What God considers loving him only God can truly know.
What God considers believing/obeying him only God can truly know.

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

These 2 commandments fulfil all the law.

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[jaybo]

Wow! Do you think you are God?

In a sense, Christians are God, as we make up the body of Christ. He is the head, we are the rest of the body.

Romans 6:11, "So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus."

Colossians 2:13, "And when you were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with him, when he forgave us all our trespasses,"

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't know the mind of God.
Only God can see into a persons heart.
What God considers loving him only God can truly know.
What God considers believing/obeying him only God can truly know.

I think we also need to know what God considers to be truly loving Him and truly obeying Him.

Regarding baptism, we know that from the beginning it was believed that baptism would wash away all previous sins.
If we look into the history of baptism, it was believed by the early Christians that after baptism we would never sin again.
This, very apparently, did not happen - thus we go into the history of confession/reconciliation.

But back to Consecrated Life 's question...
The answer could be that if we desire baptism but never get around to it the matter is quite different than stating to ourselves and to God that we would never be baptised (for whatever reason).

This would cover both circumstances....
in both cases the person is not baptized,
but for different reasons.

We disobey God many times, not being baptized is a form of disobedience.
I would stress that Jesus SPECIFICALLY said to teach all nations and to baptize...

It's like not accepting a doctrine or dogma.
Can't remember if this is re voluntary and involuntary doubt,

I'd have to believe that Jesus will not deny us before God if we do not deny Him.
Matthew 10:33
(kind of... )

32“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33“But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.