Is baptism required for salvation?

[Johann!@#]

We are to sanctify it, as Scripture states. Here is Scripture testifying to cleansing / sanctifying both the σῶμα and σάρξ...

Hebrews 10:19-22 ---> "Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water."

No sanctifying of the flesh here, I am familiar with the Koine Greek and LXX.

Heb 10:22 we should draw near προσερχώμεθα with μετὰ a sincere ἀληθινῆς heart, καρδίας in ἐν full assurance πληροφορίᾳ of faith, πίστεως, [our] τὰς hearts καρδίας having been sprinkled clean ῥεραντισμένοι from ἀπὸ an evil πονηρᾶς conscience συνειδήσεως and καὶ [our] τὸ body σῶμα having been washed λελουσμένοι with pure καθαρῷ· water. ὕδατι

2 Corinthians 7:1 ---> "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

--and no sanctifying of the flesh here either.

2Co 7:1 Therefore οὖν having ἔχοντες these Ταύτας - τὰς promises, ἐπαγγελίας, beloved, ἀγαπητοί, we should cleanse καθαρίσωμεν ourselves ἑαυτοὺς from ἀπὸ every παντὸς defilement μολυσμοῦ of flesh σαρκὸς and καὶ spirit, πνεύματος, perfecting ἐπιτελοῦντες holiness ἁγιωσύνην in ἐν [the] fear φόβῳ of God. Θεοῦ.

You seem to conflate moral cleansing with sanctifying the flesh.

The flesh (σάρξ) in Pauline theology is consistently seen as something to be crucified and mortified, not purified.

The body (σῶμα) may undergo ritual purification (as symbolized in Hebrews 10:22), but this is distinct from the notion of sanctifying the sinful nature.

Therefore, neither 2 Corinthians 7:1 nor Hebrews 10:19–22 supports the concept of sanctifying the flesh. Rather, they call for cleansing from moral defilement and ritual purification, respectively.

And you might want to study---


Romans 6:6 - "Knowing this, that our old man (ὁ παλαιὸς ἄνθρωπος) was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

Ephesians 4:22 - "That you put off concerning your former conduct, the old man (τὸν παλαιὸν ἄνθρωπον), which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts."

Colossians 3:9 - "Lie not one to another, seeing that you have put off the old man (τὸν παλαιὸν ἄνθρωπον) with his deeds."

Thank you for wanting to assist brother, I just don't see it as you see it.

J.

 

[Johann!@#]

No sanctifying of the flesh here, I am familiar with the Koine Greek and LXX.

Heb 10:22 we should draw near προσερχώμεθα with μετὰ a sincere ἀληθινῆς heart, καρδίας in ἐν full assurance πληροφορίᾳ of faith, πίστεως, [our] τὰς hearts καρδίας having been sprinkled clean ῥεραντισμένοι from ἀπὸ an evil πονηρᾶς conscience συνειδήσεως and καὶ [our] τὸ body σῶμα having been washed λελουσμένοι with pure καθαρῷ· water. ὕδατι

--and no sanctifying of the flesh here either.

2Co 7:1 Therefore οὖν having ἔχοντες these Ταύτας - τὰς promises, ἐπαγγελίας, beloved, ἀγαπητοί, we should cleanse καθαρίσωμεν ourselves ἑαυτοὺς from ἀπὸ every παντὸς defilement μολυσμοῦ of flesh σαρκὸς and καὶ spirit, πνεύματος, perfecting ἐπιτελοῦντες holiness ἁγιωσύνην in ἐν [the] fear φόβῳ of God. Θεοῦ.

You seem to conflate moral cleansing with sanctifying the flesh.

The flesh (σάρξ) in Pauline theology is consistently seen as something to be crucified and mortified, not purified.

The body (σῶμα) may undergo ritual purification (as symbolized in Hebrews 10:22), but this is distinct from the notion of sanctifying the sinful nature.

Therefore, neither 2 Corinthians 7:1 nor Hebrews 10:19–22 supports the concept of sanctifying the flesh. Rather, they call for cleansing from moral defilement and ritual purification, respectively.

And you might want to study---


Romans 6:6 - "Knowing this, that our old man (ὁ παλαιὸς ἄνθρωπος) was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

Ephesians 4:22 - "That you put off concerning your former conduct, the old man (τὸν παλαιὸν ἄνθρωπον), which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts."

Colossians 3:9 - "Lie not one to another, seeing that you have put off the old man (τὸν παλαιὸν ἄνθρωπον) with his deeds."

Thank you for wanting to assist brother, I just don't see it as you see it.

J.

Flesh - Bible Meaning & Definition - Baker's Dictionary

Learn what Flesh means and it's Biblical definition including verses and verse references on the topic of Flesh using Bakers Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology Online.

www.biblestudytools.com

Distinctive Pauline Uses. The uniquely Pauline understanding begins from the idea that flesh, as weak, becomes the gateway to sin ( Rom 8:3 ; 2 Cor 12:7 ; Gal 4:14 ). Still more, as the arena in which sin entrenches itself it becomes the instrument of sin ( Rom 6:12-14 ) to the extent that it becomes sinful itself ( Rom 8:3 ), and so an occupying alien power ( Rom 7:17-20 ). The accompanying war Paul describes as a struggle between flesh and Spirit ( Rom 8:5-17 ; Gal 5:16-24 ). The seriousness of the struggle is indicated by the fact that the mind-set of the flesh leads to death ( Rom 8:6 ), and that those living in the flesh cannot please God ( Rom 8:8 ). Accounts of this conflict are most vivid in contexts where Paul is describing the demands of the law on the one hand ( Romans 7:4 Romans 7:7-11 ; Gal 5:2-5 ), and its impotence to enable the believer to meet them on the other ( Rom 8:3 ; Gal 3:10-12 ). Flesh, however, is not intrinsically sinful, and may therefore be the scene of sin's defeat. This it became through Christ's coming and crucifixion in the flesh ( Rom 8:3 ). Those who identify themselves with him by faith likewise crucify the flesh ( Gal 2:20 ; 5:24 ) so being emancipated from the power of sin in the flesh ( Rom 6:14 ; 8:9 ). This reading appears to be confirmed by the Pauline use of the largely parallel term "body." The "body of sin" was done away with at the cross ( Rom 6:6 ). The "body of our humiliation" ( Php 3:21 ), which is weak and still subject to the attack of sin, is the body of the interim. The "body of glory" ( Php 3:21 ), transformed and imperishable ( 1 Corinthians 15:42-44 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 ), is the body of the age to come.

A. R. G. Deasley

See also Body; Sin

Bibliography. J. Christiaan Beker, Paul the Apostle: The Triumph of God in Life and Thought; R. Bultmann, Theology of the New Testament; R. Jewett, Paul's Anthropological Terms; A. Sand, EDNT, 3:230-33; H. Seebass and A. C. Thiselton, NIDNTT, 1:671-82; C. Ryder Smith: The Bible Doctrine of Man.

J.

 

[JLB]

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Do any scriptures teach that infants were sprinkled with water for baptism?

 

[donadams]

salvation from the power of sin, and making us like christ, yes it is long it takes a lifetime

salvation from the penalty of sin is a one time process. based on the death of christ.

I have no stumbling block. Sadly like for the jews. Jesus is your stumbling block.

he calls for you to trust him with assurance and confidence.

When you do not. You have to add your own works, Hence your faith is in self. not God

we also need to have union with Christ by grace

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Do any scriptures teach that infants were sprinkled with water for baptism?

No. Sprinkling was practiced because dunking infant in the water was dangerous.

 

[JLB]

No. Sprinkling was practiced because dunking infant in the water was dangerous.

Infants have no capacity to believe.

Only those who believe with all their heart are qualified to be fully immersed in water baptism.

Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.
Acts 8:36-38


Infant baptism is unbiblical.

Infants are innocent.

 

[donadams]

typical catholic response

Not I am just interpreting the word at what it says.


No, we settle it like peter tells us to. By using the word.

Typical catholic response. they have you so in fear and their doctrines are so wishy washy they demand you come to them, because they are afraid they may lose you

Hey, if this makes you happy feel free.. But I will do what God commands me to and not trust any one, even the bereans were more noble using the word to prove what the APOSTLE paul said.

The true church would teach the true jesus.

there is only one ark of eternal salvation!

one, holy, Catholic, & apostolic!

 

[JLB]

there is only one ark of eternal salvation!

one, holy, Catholic, & apostolic!

The teachings of Catholicism are not biblically.

No where did the scriptures teach us to “sprinkle infants” for baptism.

No where did Jesus command for a Roman Vatican to be built and a pagan sun god obelisk to be erected, and prayers to be made to Mary or other human being, or Rosary beads, or bowing down to statues of “saints”, or indulgences, or forbidding priests to marry…

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry.
1 Timothy 4:1-2

 

[donadams]

typical catholic response

Not I am just interpreting the word at what it says.


No, we settle it like peter tells us to. By using the word.

Typical catholic response. they have you so in fear and their doctrines are so wishy washy they demand you come to them, because they are afraid they may lose you

Hey, if this makes you happy feel free.. But I will do what God commands me to and not trust any one, even the bereans were more noble using the word to prove what the APOSTLE paul said.

The true church would teach the true jesus.

did Christ establish the church to teach & sanctify all men? matt 28:19

 

[Eternally-grateful]

we also need to have union with Christ by grace

thats called salvation. which we recieve by trusting in him (john 1, john 3)

 

[Eternally-grateful]

No. Sprinkling was practiced because dunking infant in the water was dangerous.

there is nothing in scripture which tells us to baptize infants..

 

[Eternally-grateful]

there is only one ark of eternal salvation!

one, holy, Catholic, & apostolic!

there may be,

but its not the church we call the roman catholic church. or as I call it. Pagan rome

 

[Eternally-grateful]

did Christ establish the church to teach & sanctify all men? matt 28:19

Does Peter and paul not tell us to look to scripture to test all spirits. and not follow men. because even in their day, false teachers and prophets were already sneaking in and turning people from Christ?

the church would follow the word of God. not privately interpreted or falsely instituted doctrines not supported by scripture

 

[donadams]

Wrong...

Acts 2:38: Πέτρος δὲ πρὸς αὐτούς Μετανοήσατε, [φησίν] καὶ βαπτισθήτω ἕκαστος ὑμῶν ἐν / ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς ἄφεσιν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ὑμῶν, καὶ λήμψεσθε τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος·

And Peter said to them: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The original Greek of the Nicene Creed confirms the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles...

"ὁμολογοῦμεν ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν" which means "we confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins." (The word εἰς can be translated either way as "unto" or "for," since both in English in this context mean the same thing.)

The effect of baptism from the genesis of the Christian faith was clearly understood. Even the progenitor of Protestantism affirmed the necessity of baptism and its salvific effects. Here is Luther again...

"This is the simplest way to put it: the power, effect, benefit, fruit, and purpose of baptism is that it saves. For no one is baptized in order to become a prince, but as the words say, ‘to be saved.’ To be saved, as everyone knows, is nothing else than to be delivered from sin, death and the devil, to enter into Christ’s kingdom, and to live with him forever." - Martin Luther, Large Catechism

It wasn't until much later when other Protestants were bold enough to claim Jesus and the Apostles were actually wrong about baptism...

"In this matter of baptism - if I may be pardoned for saying it - I can only conclude that all the doctors have been in error from the time of the Apostles...At many points we shall have to tread a different path from that taken either by ancient or more modern writers or by our own contemporaries." (Zwingli, De Baptismo, 1525 A.D.)


Which way modern man? Jesus Christ or thy self?

they love to change the eternal word to fit their pet later day doctrines!

repent everyone of you, be baptized some of you, but it really don't matter cos baptism is meaningless anyway!

acts 2:38-39

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

thks

(and they accuse us of shoehorning)

 

[donadams]

What sign did John the Baptist look for to determine if the person being baptized genuinely meant it--something that infants are incapable of doing?

At what age did boys and girls become Bar Mitzvah? Something infants are incapable of doing?

Johann.

we are not under the baptism of John who prepared the way for Christ and the new covenant christian sacrament of baptism!

thks

 

[donadams]

Was Paul a Sacramentarian?

Johann.

of course!
and a priest of Jesus Christ according to the order of melchisedec!

1 cor 11:23-26
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

and baptism!

Fiat mehe secundum verbum tuum! Lk 1:38

 

[Eternally-grateful]

they love to change the eternal word to fit their pet later day doctrines!

repent everyone of you, be baptized some of you, but it really don't matter cos baptism is meaningless anyway!

acts 2:38-39

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

thks

(and they accuse us of shoehorning)

Yes, You love to change the eternal word to suit your pet doctrines

Peter told everyone to repent, and they would recieve the gift of the spirit

He then told those who repented. to be baptized on the account they recieved remission of sin.

and we see afterword. those who believed where baptized.

Since we are born again by faith (john 1, john 3, john 4, john 5, john 6 etc etc etc.) it fits with the rest of scripture

those who repented came to faith. and recieved the gift of the spirit

then they were baptized in obedience to Gods command, out of gratitude they recieved remission of sin.

Thats what causes us to do the works of God.. We trust him, in water baptism, in communion, in giving, in serving, in loving

 

[donadams]

To Be Or Not To Be Baptized

A SIMPLE MESSAGE ON BAPTISM Judging from the present-day controversy about water baptism it would seem that it is not possible to write a simple message on the subject. Most assuredly it requires more than a superficial study of the Scriptures to produce a strong conviction in the matter, based upo

bereanbiblesociety.org

Thanks, I'm out of this thread.

J.

i searched the scriptures and the bereans are wrong and not authorized apostles or the church established by Christ on Peter!

 

[donadams]

Nothing to do with water here.

5) "By the washing of regeneration." (dia loutrou paliggenesias) Through (the) instrument of washing, of generation again (birth again) or the new birth, Joh_3:3; Joh_3:5; Joh_3:7. The new birth is effected through the washing, quickening, or cleansing of the Holy Spirit on the basis of personal faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, Joh_3:8; Joh_6:63; 2Co_3:6; 1Jn_5:1.


The "washing" is both "regenerating" and "renewing." The washing here denotes an inner, spiritual cleansing of sins (compare Eph_5:26) that sanctifies one, making one "righteous" before God.

J.

Born again by “Faith & baptism”!

“Baptismal regeneration” is the initiation into the new covenant!
Jn 3:5 cannot enter!
2 pet 1:11 an entrance shall be ministered unto you!

A sacrament is the fruit of the sacrifice of Christ, an outward (visible) sign that signifies what it accomplishes inward spirituality. (invisible)

we cannot ordinarily have the inward action of grace without the outward sacrament of baptism!

Washing ez 36:25-27 zech 13:1 acts 22:16 titus 3:5

Christian baptism is an outward sign of the inward action of grace, or merits of Christ’s passion blood and death applied to our souls!

We cannot see the inward action of grace purifying the soul, so God gave us the outward “sign” of water washing the body to indicate the inward action of grace and connected the two.

The sacraments are signs of God’s grace!

The grace of justification in the power of the spirit is manifested by the sign of baptism!

Jesus Christ is the sign and the sacrament!

it is a covenant and in a covenant you have an outward sign of the covenant.

in the mosaic covenant it was circumsicion, in the new covenant of grace it is baptism.

"faith alone" has no outward sign.
this is why the proponents of this do it yourself religion insist on baptism as an outward sign, believers baptism, as a public profession of the "faith alone" that has already saved them.

in a covenant there is also the anointing with oil those who are entering the covenant.

psalm 23:5 thou anointed my head with oil...

in a covenant we are sealed by God.

"faith alone" has no outward sign or anointing or seal!

thks

 

[donadams]

more

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Also acts 16:17

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!









“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Where does it say we are sealed by faith alone?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Faith alone?

1 Timothy 1:14
And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
(Sound like faith alone?)
(Why a great amount of grace, don’t we just each need a tiny bit?)

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Ministered by the apostolic church!

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2