Is baptism required for salvation?

[Eternally-grateful]

Holy Spirit baptism is the sacrament of confirmation that is almost never discussed

let go of romansim//Water baptism no more saves than physical circumcision saved the jew.

it is the spiritual circumcision done by the hand of God through baptism which is performed (both) by the HS

Physical baptism and physical circumcision were symbols of this act of God on the believer to save them
(col 2)

 

[Eternally-grateful]

both and!
faith and baptism

scripture nowhere says "faith alone" except James 2;42

scripture says faith alone all over the place

faith minus everything = faith alone

faith minus works = faith alone

just because the word alone is not used does not mean it is not insinuated. hence you have a weak argument

again, your following words of men, And using their excuses..

Follow the word. and see what the word says

 

[Free]

there is no first then second!

all one action:

KJV

matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

thks

Either way, it does away with infant baptism since an infant cannot be a disciple.

 

[Walpole]

No it does not

We are saved by grace through faith. not of works

water baptism no more saves us then physical circumcision saved the jews.

Both symbolized the true washing or cleaning. which was performed By God when GOD baptized us into Christ. (no water involved)

Believe the Word of God!

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, NOW SAVES YOU, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1 Peter 3:21)


The Word of God instructs us to be baptized if we want to be saved. Yet modern Protestants tell us our Blessed Lord and the Apostles were wrong and that you do not need to be baptized and that baptism does not even have anything to do with water!

Whom shall we believe???

 

[donadams]

There is no such things as initial grace or initial salvation

Grace is grace and we are either saved or we are not saved

Grace in any sense is the opposite of works

Paul said grace plus works equals works.

Grace plus anything (including baptism) equals works

salvation is a long process

that's your issue or stumbling block


Redemption :
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 eph 2:1-8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Purification
Glorification

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

we don't receive one grace or even one kind of grace

there are three kinds of grace:
the initial grace of justification
sanctifying grace
actual grace

the scripture is replete with references to increasing grace, to gaining more and new graces daily

every greeting of the fathers include the phrase: grace be unto you!

maybe you have noticed it?

example:

1 thes 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
or
1 pet 2:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

thks

 

[donadams]

The one baptism is the baptism of God. (Holy Spirit) not the baptism performed by a sinner who may or may not be saved himself

the apostles received the life of grace! Jn 20:21-23

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

they administer this life of grace unto us! 2 pet 1:11

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

thks

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Either way, it does away with infant baptism since an infant cannot be a disciple.

I had my kids sprinkled as infants (you can not really baptize one) I did not do it for their sake though. I did it for mine, I did it to present them to God and promise I would bring them up in his ways..

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Believe the Word of God!

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, NOW SAVES YOU, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1 Peter 3:21)


The Word of God instructs us to be baptized if we want to be saved. Yet modern Protestants tell us our Blessed Lord and the Apostles were wrong and that you do not need to be baptized and that baptism does not even have anything to do with water!

Whom shall we believe???

I do believe the word of God

1. But as many as have recieved him, to them he gave the right to become children of God
2. For god so loved the world. he gave his only son, that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM will never perish, but has eternal life (born again)
3. Ask and I will give you living water flowing to eternal life (john 4)
whoever sees and believes has passed from death to live and shall not come to judgment (john 5)
4. Seek or labor for the food which endures forever. the bread from heaven, the words the spirit gives us, you will never hunger, never thirst, live forever. Not be judged. Be raised on the last day. and will never be lost.
5. Not by works of righteousness which we have done (like water baptism) buy by his mercy he saved us

baptism does not save you. what it represents saves you. as the waters of judgment saved noah.. they both symbolise Gods truth

 

[Walpole]

Either way, it does away with infant baptism since an infant cannot be a disciple.

St. Peter says otherwise...

"Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you AND YOUR CHILDREN and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." (Acts 2:38-39)

St. Peter is referencing the Prophet Joel, who prophesied the coming of grace and the sanctification of the people, which included children and infants (those that "suck the breasts")...

Joel 2:16 ---> "Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet."

St. Peter tells us the prophet Joel's prophesy is fulfilled with baptism.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

salvation is a long process

salvation from the power of sin, and making us like christ, yes it is long it takes a lifetime

salvation from the penalty of sin is a one time process. based on the death of christ.

I have no stumbling block. Sadly like for the jews. Jesus is your stumbling block.

he calls for you to trust him with assurance and confidence.

When you do not. You have to add your own works, Hence your faith is in self. not God

 

[Eternally-grateful]

St. Peter says otherwise...

"Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you AND YOUR CHILDREN and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." (Acts 2:38-39[/ur])

St. Peter is referencing the Prophet Joel, who prophesied the coming of grace and the sanctification of the people, which included children and infants (those that "suck the breasts")...

Joel 2:16 ---> "Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet."

St. Peter tells us the prophet Joel's prophesy is fulfilled with baptism.

the gift of the spirit points to repent (2nd person plural) not baptism (3rd person singular)

the greek does not say what you think.. baptism and the gift are not related.. other than those who recieve the gift. and told to be baptized because they recieved remission of sin.

which those who repented and were saved did.. about 3000 was added to the church

 

[Walpole]

I do believe the word of God

1. But as many as have recieved him, to them he gave the right to become children of God
2. For god so loved the world. he gave his only son, that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM will never perish, but has eternal life (born again)
3. Ask and I will give you living water flowing to eternal life (john 4)
whoever sees and believes has passed from death to live and shall not come to judgment (john 5)
4. Seek or labor for the food which endures forever. the bread from heaven, the words the spirit gives us, you will never hunger, never thirst, live forever. Not be judged. Be raised on the last day. and will never be lost.
5. Not by works of righteousness which we have done (like water baptism) buy by his mercy he saved us

baptism does not save you. what it represents saves you. as the waters of judgment saved noah.. they both symbolise Gods truth

You: "Baptism does not save you."

Word of God: ""Baptism, which corresponds to this, NOW SAVES YOU, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1 Peter 3:21)

Which way Western man? Jesus Christ or thy self?

 

[Johann!@#]

You: "Baptism does not save you."

Word of God: ""Baptism, which corresponds to this, NOW SAVES YOU, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1 Peter 3:21)

Which way Western man? Jesus Christ or thy self?

Ah! Now we're getting somewhere..read the Scriptures through an Eastern lens, considering Jewish customs and culture, not a Western perspective.

Johann.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

You: "Baptism does not save you."

I was baptised a year after I was saved, I agree with you. My baptism did not save me, I was already saved

Gods baptism did

Word of God: ""Baptism, which corresponds to this, NOW SAVES YOU, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1 Peter 3:21)

Which way Western man? Jesus Christ or thy self?

you do not form a doctrine on one verse..

plus your translation is flawed.

the waters of the flood also corresponds to the waters of baptism. (they equally point to what truely saves us)

peter tried to be clear in that it does not remove sin from the soul.. but is the answer of a good consciousness toward god. (we do not do it to get saved, we do it because we love God and in good conscious want to obey his commands, baptism is one of many commands God has given to us

 

[Walpole]

the gift of the spirit points to repent (2nd person plural) not baptism (3rd person singular)

the greek does not say what you think.. baptism and the gift are not related.. other than those who recieve the gift. and told to be baptized because they recieved remission of sin.

which those who repented and were saved did.. about 3000 was added to the church

You have it backwards...

Greek: Metanoēsate kai baptisthētô ekastos hymôn en tô onomati Iesou Xristou eis afesin tôn hamartiôn hymôn…
(Source)

Literally: Repent (pl.) And let each of you be baptized (sg.) in the name of Jesus Christ UNTO (eis) the forgiveness of your sins.

The preposition eis is directional and purposive.

Acts 2:38 demonstrates baptism washes away sins.

 

[Walpole]

I was baptised a year after I was saved, I agree with you. My baptism did not save me, I was already saved

Gods baptism did

you do not form a doctrine on one verse..

plus your translation is flawed.

the waters of the flood also corresponds to the waters of baptism. (they equally point to what truely saves us)

peter tried to be clear in that it does not remove sin from the soul.. but is the answer of a good consciousness toward god. (we do not do it to get saved, we do it because we love God and in good conscious want to obey his commands, baptism is one of many commands God has given to us

How many verses are required for you to believe what Scripture says is true?

1, 2, 3...10?

Do you not believe every word in Scripture is the Word of God?

 

[Johann!@#]

You have it backwards...

Greek: Metanoēsate kai baptisthētô ekastos hymôn en tô onomati Iesou Xristou eis afesin tôn hamartiôn hymôn…
(Source)

Literally: Repent (pl.) And let each of you be baptized (sg.) in the name of Jesus Christ UNTO (eis) the forgiveness of your sins.

The preposition eis is directional and purposive.

Acts 2:38 demonstrates baptism washes away sins.

Context of Acts 2:38:
Acts 2:38 reads:
"Peter said to them, 'Repent (μετανοήσατε, 2nd person plural), and each of you be baptized (βαπτισθήτω, 3rd person singular) in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"

The context here is Peter’s response to the question posed in Acts 2:37:
"Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
Peter's answer addresses both repentance and baptism, but they are grammatically distinct.

2. Grammatical Structure:

The verb "repent" (μετανοήσατε) is in the 2nd person plural, addressing the collective group.

The verb "be baptized" (βαπτισθήτω) is in the 3rd person singular, indicating an individual action.

This distinction suggests that repentance is commanded for the entire group, while baptism is applied individually.

The prepositional phrase "for the forgiveness of sins" (εἰς ἄφεσιν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν) modifies both verbs, but the grammatical construction indicates that repentance precedes forgiveness, while baptism is connected as a subsequent step.

3. The Use of "Eis" (εἰς):

The preposition εἰς does indeed indicate purpose or result, but it does not inherently mean that baptism itself causes forgiveness.

A similar use of εἰς appears in Matthew 12:41:
"They repented at (εἰς) the preaching of Jonah..."
Here, εἰς does not mean that Jonah's preaching itself caused repentance; rather, it indicates the resulting effect or response to the message.

Therefore, in Acts 2:38, εἰς points to the intended outcome of the overall response (repentance and baptism), not strictly attributing the forgiveness to baptism alone.



The gift of the Holy Spirit follows the repentance and forgiveness.

The order here shows that repentance and faith in Christ are central to forgiveness, with baptism as the public declaration and symbolic act of that inner transformation.

Peter’s emphasis on repentance as the foundational response aligns with other passages where faith, not baptism, is explicitly tied to forgiveness (e.g., Acts 10:43, Romans 10:9-10).

5. Example from Acts 10 (Cornelius):

In Acts 10:44-48, Cornelius and his household receive the Holy Spirit before baptism.

This shows that forgiveness and the gift of the Spirit do not depend on baptism, reinforcing that repentance and faith are primary.


So your claim that baptism itself causes forgiveness misunderstands the grammar and context of Acts 2:38.

Repentance is the immediate response leading to forgiveness, while baptism follows as a sign of obedience and public confession.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is given on the basis of faith and repentance, not the act of baptism itself.

Therefore, Acts 2:38 does not support the idea that baptism alone results in forgiveness of sins.

God bless.

Johann.

 

[donadams]

The one baptism is the baptism of God. (Holy Spirit) not the baptism performed by a sinner who may or may not be saved himself

how do you know?
are you adding your interpretation to scripture?

how do we settle it?

we must hear Christ and His church!

matt 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

If you believe scripture you would believe the teaching of the apostolic church which alone possesses the authority of Jesus Christ in union with Jesus Christ! matt 28:19-20 matt 16:18:19 Jn 20:21-23 acts 1:1-8

Christ is the light! (Truth)
Jn 8:12

The church he founded is also the light as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 5:14

Christ is the teacher!
Heb 1:1-3

The church He founded is also our teacher as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 18:17

Christ is the truth!
Jn 14:6

The church He founded is also the pillar of truth as an extension and command of Christ! 1 tim 3:15

I can post the teaching of the fathers if you like?

the unanimous teaching is that without baptism no man is saved!

thanks

 

[Walpole]

Ah! Now we're getting somewhere..read the Scriptures through an Eastern lens, considering Jewish customs and culture, not a Western perspective.

Johann.

Bingo!

This is exactly why St. Paul compares Christian baptism to Jewish circumcision...

"In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses. (Col 2:11-13)

Baptism is the requirement to enter into the the New Covenant just as circumcision was a requirement of the Abrahamic covenant.

The deluge killed all "flesh," saving only 8 people.
Circumcision cuts off the "flesh," on the 8th day.

The parallels are only coincidental if you are a modern-day Protestant.

 

[Walpole]

Context of Acts 2:38:
Acts 2:38 reads:
"Peter said to them, 'Repent (μετανοήσατε, 2nd person plural), and each of you be baptized (βαπτισθήτω, 3rd person singular) in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"

The context here is Peter’s response to the question posed in Acts 2:37:
"Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
Peter's answer addresses both repentance and baptism, but they are grammatically distinct.

2. Grammatical Structure:

The verb "repent" (μετανοήσατε) is in the 2nd person plural, addressing the collective group.

The verb "be baptized" (βαπτισθήτω) is in the 3rd person singular, indicating an individual action.

This distinction suggests that repentance is commanded for the entire group, while baptism is applied individually.

The prepositional phrase "for the forgiveness of sins" (εἰς ἄφεσιν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν) modifies both verbs, but the grammatical construction indicates that repentance precedes forgiveness, while baptism is connected as a subsequent step.

3. The Use of "Eis" (εἰς):

The preposition εἰς does indeed indicate purpose or result, but it does not inherently mean that baptism itself causes forgiveness.

A similar use of εἰς appears in Matthew 12:41:
"They repented at (εἰς) the preaching of Jonah..."
Here, εἰς does not mean that Jonah's preaching itself caused repentance; rather, it indicates the resulting effect or response to the message.

Therefore, in Acts 2:38, εἰς points to the intended outcome of the overall response (repentance and baptism), not strictly attributing the forgiveness to baptism alone.



The gift of the Holy Spirit follows the repentance and forgiveness.

The order here shows that repentance and faith in Christ are central to forgiveness, with baptism as the public declaration and symbolic act of that inner transformation.

Peter’s emphasis on repentance as the foundational response aligns with other passages where faith, not baptism, is explicitly tied to forgiveness (e.g., Acts 10:43, Romans 10:9-10).

5. Example from Acts 10 (Cornelius):

In Acts 10:44-48, Cornelius and his household receive the Holy Spirit before baptism.

This shows that forgiveness and the gift of the Spirit do not depend on baptism, reinforcing that repentance and faith are primary.


So your claim that baptism itself causes forgiveness misunderstands the grammar and context of Acts 2:38.

Repentance is the immediate response leading to forgiveness, while baptism follows as a sign of obedience and public confession.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is given on the basis of faith and repentance, not the act of baptism itself.

Therefore, Acts 2:38 does not support the idea that baptism alone results in forgiveness of sins.

God bless.

Johann.

FYI, Christians believe baptism is only efficacious because of the blood of Christ. This is why St. John repeatedly connects the blood of Christ with water...

"But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water." (John 19:34)

"This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:6-8)