Is baptism required for salvation?

[Randy]

I am making no assumption sir.

Do you honestly believe the Catholic Church is going to instruct these people in the doctrine of Christ?

Or are they going to continue instructing them is dogmas and rituals and teaching of Catholicism?

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day"
"Everyone whom the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never send away"

"They shall all be taught by GOD"

Those the Father chooses to know the righteous one will go to Him. Baptism in itself doesn't produce faith.

I think the Catholic church promotes Christ. I'm not Catholic. My father was Catholic as was his parents. My mother is Lutheran, and they baptize infants as well. I'm not anyone in authority so it really doesn't matter what I think but I consider myself baptized despite your objections. What I do know is that I have the Spirit of Christ in me and I know Him and He knows me well.

 

[Randy]

Nonetheless, it has no effect in salvation if baptism is not a conscious and informed decision.

Apparently, that's a matter of debate as several denominations baptize infants, so they don't deem that baptism as worthless.

It's still saved by grace through faith with the fruit of obedience and any baptism in itself doesn't produce faith. It's those who listen and learn from the Father who go to Jesus. In fact Jesus states ALL that the Father GIVES Him will come to Him and He will never drive them away as its His Fathers will to raise them up on the last day.

I consider myself baptized in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit by clergy in a Christain church. (Lutheran) Its not worthless to me.

 

[JLB]

but I consider myself baptized despite your objections.

I have no objections.

I only posted scripture about water baptism.

For me personally I don’t go by what I consider, I just go by what the Spirit and the word teach me is the truth.

 

[Randy]

What objections do I have?

You don't consider it a valid baptism.

Have you considered setting salvation aside at that baptism the child committed to God by their parents belongs to God?

As the child grows.
Whoever belongs to God hears what God says.

 

[JLB]

My mother is Lutheran, and they baptize infants as well. I'm not anyone in authority so it really doesn't matter what I think

I really don’t know what Lutherans teach.

Do they baptize adults in the name of the Lord Jesus?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Apparently, that's a matter of debate as several denominations baptize infants, so they don't deem that baptism as worthless.

It's still saved by grace through faith with the fruit of obedience and any baptism in itself doesn't produce faith. It's those who listen and learn from the Father who go to Jesus. In fact Jesus states ALL that the Father GIVES Him will come to Him and He will never drive them away as its His Fathers will to raise them up on the last day.

I consider myself baptized in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit by clergy in a Christain church. (Lutheran) Its not worthless to me.

I didn't say it's worthless, I explained it multiple times that baptism is a sacred rite of initiation, a public declaration of faith and a milestone in a person's life, it is as significant as a wedding, the end of one stage of life and the beginning of the next stage, like wedding ceremony. And as you said, baptism itself does NOT produce faith as much as wedding ceremony itself does not produce love, the absolute requirement for salvation is receiving of the Holy Spirit.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. (Matt. 3:11)
"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts. 2:38)

 

[JLB]

You don't consider it a valid baptism.

I go by what scripture says.

To me this is what the Lord taught His disciples to do.

Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Acts 8:37-38

It does matter what I or anyone else considers.

We either do what Jesus teaches or we don’t.

From what I read in scripture, Jesus isn’t a pick and choose what we decide to do or not do kind of Lord.

For me personally I do go by what some denomination says or the traditions of my parents.

As an adult I have to choose what Jesus says to do.

Jesus teaches I need forgive those who have wronged me otherwise I won’t be forgiven my sins.

There is no other options. I either forgive or I don’t.

I don’t want to get to the day of Judgement and find out I had plenty of time and opportunity to do what was right in His eyes and just because I was stubborn I didn’t do what He plainly taught me to do.

 

[Randy]

I go by what scripture says.

To me this is what the Lord taught His disciples to do.

Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Acts 8:37-38

It does matter what I or anyone else considers.

We either do what Jesus teaches or we don’t.

From what I read in scripture, Jesus isn’t a pick and choose what we decide to do or not do kind of Lord.

For me personally I do go by what some denomination says or the traditions of my parents.

As an adult I have to choose what Jesus says to do.

Jesus teaches I need forgive those who have wronged me otherwise I won’t be forgiven my sins.

There is no other options. I either forgive or I don’t.

I don’t want to get to the day of Judgement and find out I had plenty of time and opportunity to do what was right in His eyes and just because I was stubborn I didn’t do what He plainly taught me to do.

I maintain were saved by grace through faith with the fruit of obedience. Whether your baptized as an adult or infant. Baptism does not produce faith.

But its always Gods choice.
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

 

[Randy]

I didn't say it's worthless, I explained it multiple times that baptism is a sacred rite of initiation, a public declaration of faith and a milestone in a person's life, it is as significant as a wedding, the end of one stage of life and the beginning of the next stage, like wedding ceremony. And as you said, baptism itself does NOT produce faith as much as wedding ceremony itself does not produce love, the absolute requirement for salvation is receiving of the Holy Spirit.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. (Matt. 3:11)
"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts. 2:38)

Well I did ask for and received the inner gift of the Spirit of Christ at a later date as one calling on the Lord.

We are saved by grace through faith.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[Randy]

I really don’t know what Lutherans teach.

Do they baptize adults in the name of the Lord Jesus?

Really?
There are those that come to the faith as adults.

It's in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[JLB]

For me personally I do go by what some denomination says or the traditions of my parents.

Correction.

For me personally I don’t go by what some denomination says or the traditions of my parents.

 

[JLB]

There are those that come to the faith as adults.

Maybe so, I don’t really understand what that term means…
“come to faith”.

Do you mean by saying, “come to faith” become born again?

 

[JLB]

I maintain were saved by grace through faith with the fruit of obedience. Whether your baptized as an adult or infant. Baptism does not produce faith.

But its always Gods choice.
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Yes it’s God’s will for all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

• God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4

 

[JLB]

It's in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The only name under heaven by which men are saved is Jesus Christ.


let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
Acts 4:10-12

 

[Randy]

Maybe so, I don’t really understand what that term means…
“come to faith”.

Do you mean by saying, “come to faith” become born again?

No.
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves.


Come to the faith.

 

[Randy]

The only name under heaven by which men are saved is Jesus Christ.


let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
Acts 4:10-12

And Jesus is the head of the body of Christ
He stated:
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[JLB]

No.
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves.


Come to the faith.

Are you saying that come to faith does not refer to being born again?

Again, I apologize that I don’t understand this term and what it means.

I see the scripture you quoted, however that refers to being “in the faith” not coming to faith.

Test yourselves to see whether you are in the faith refers to being in Christ; in the faith of Christ. We who are in Christ are said to be in the household of faith; our common faith in Christ.

Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.
Galatians 6:10

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13:5

People can depart from the faith because they gave heed to false doctrine.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1

 

[JLB]

And Jesus is the head of the body of Christ
He stated:
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Do you realize that the Name the Godhead has chosen to represent them is Jesus.

All the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Him bodily.

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Colossians 2:9

The apostles always baptized people in water in the name of Jesus.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:14-17

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48


Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Corinthians 1:13


he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
Acts 19:2-6

 

[Randy]

Are you saying that come to faith does not refer to being born again?

Again, I apologize that I don’t understand this term and what it means.

I see the scripture you quoted, however that refers to being “in the faith” not coming to faith.

Test yourselves to see whether you are in the faith refers to being in Christ; in the faith of Christ. We who are in Christ are said to be in the household of faith; our common faith in Christ.

Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.
Galatians 6:10

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13:5

People can depart from the faith because they gave heed to false doctrine.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1

I stated some come to the faith as adults. Meaning they would be baptized as adults. I gave you the context.

I don't have anything to add.

 

[Randy]

Do you realize that the Name the Godhead has chosen to represent them is Jesus.

All the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Him bodily.

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Colossians 2:9

The apostles always baptized people in water in the name of Jesus.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:14-17

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48


Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Corinthians 1:13


he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
Acts 19:2-6

You do know Jesus is the Son don't you? Anyway your problem is in His words not mine. Jesus spoke the Fathers words and the Spirit speaks only what he hears from the mind of the Spirit. Thats 3 that testify but the source of the message/truth is God our Father.
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

If God rejects reconciliation it won't be because of a naming problem. It will be because He finds fault with the person's heart who is being baptized. As in a wolf in sheep's clothing.