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Is believing/faith a work ?

rogerg

And if it is a required work, brlghtfame52, then, by it being a requirement for salvation, by definition, it must also be a law, or it couldn't be a requirement.
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Correct, may as well try to keep the whole law to be saved, which of course is to depart from Grace altogether.

But thanks to God, that through His mercy and His grace, instead, it comes fully and completely as a gift in its totality through Jesus Christ, thereby making it neither of law nor of work, but as a gift.
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absolutely through Jesus Christ our lord Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 6:11

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Many have objected to the reality that Faith/Believing is a work because they read in scripture where faith is contrasted to works like Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Yes Faith/Believing are contrasted with works, and the reason for that, Faith and or Believing are not of ourselves, but are Gifts of Gods Grace to a person, its only when we hijack that which finds it originating source from the Grace of God, and say, no my faith or believing originated from me and my nature, my freewill, then thats when the contrast no longer exists, then Faith and believing become your acts of the flesh, and that makes them your works.

To say one is Justified by Grace Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

and one is Justified by Faith Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Its saying the same thing if we keep in mind that Faith originates from Grace, and not of ourselves. If we believe that our Faith/Believing is because of the operation of Gods Grace, His Spirit, that its the Work of God in us being manifested Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

2 Thess 2:13

3 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Sanctification of the Spirit is describing the work of God the Spirit, and what follows is belief of the truth or faith. The word belief here is the noun pistis and translated faith 239 times in the NT

And what is the Truth that the work of the Spirit leads to ? Its the Gospel, notice vs 14

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice that word whereunto, its the prep eis which means towards, into, (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.);

The point and result of the sanctification of the Spirit was to result in the belief of the truth of the Gospel.

This passage shows that #1 Believing the truth is a work of God the Spirit confirming Jn 6:29 and #2 that regeneration is before and unto Faith in the Gospel.

But if we deny this, and insist that faith/believing is of ourselves, then you fall into the snare of Salvation/Justification being by your works.
 
brightfame52 said:
Many have objected to the reality that Faith/Believing is a work because they read in scripture where faith is contrasted to works like Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Yes Faith/Believing are contrasted with works, and the reason for that, Faith and or Believing are not of ourselves, but are Gifts of Gods Grace to a person, its only when we hijack that which finds it originating source from the Grace of God, and say, no my faith or believing originated from me and my nature, my freewill, then thats when the contrast no longer exists, then Faith and believing become your acts of the flesh, and that makes them your works.

To say one is Justified by Grace Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

and one is Justified by Faith Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Its saying the same thing if we keep in mind that Faith originates from Grace, and not of ourselves. If we believe that our Faith/Believing is because of the operation of Gods Grace, His Spirit, that its the Work of God in us being manifested Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

2 Thess 2:13

3 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Sanctification of the Spirit is describing the work of God the Spirit, and what follows is belief of the truth or faith. The word belief here is the noun pistis and translated faith 239 times in the NT

And what is the Truth that the work of the Spirit leads to ? Its the Gospel, notice vs 14

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice that word whereunto, its the prep eis which means towards, into, (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.);

The point and result of the sanctification of the Spirit was to result in the belief of the truth of the Gospel.

This passage shows that #1 Believing the truth is a work of God the Spirit confirming Jn 6:29 and #2 that regeneration is before and unto Faith in the Gospel.

But if we deny this, and insist that faith/believing is of ourselves, then you fall into the snare of Salvation/Justification being by your works.
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I don't see believing in Father Christmas, the same as cooking someone a meal or lighting a fire for them.

One is invisible faith, the other is visible work.

One, we can touch, see, and hold, the other we cannot even touch it.
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If our believing/faith is inherent, then its our work, our action to believe in God/Jesus Christ for all Salvation, but if its not naturally inherent, and it be the work and operation of the Spirit of God in us, also the effectual working of Gods grace, then its not of ourselves, but the Gift of God, then the proper contrast of Faith vs works is manifested.

Christ is the author of our Faith/Believing by giving us His Spirit 1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him[Christ] do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power,

Paul attributes his believing and the believers at Ephesus to the mighty working of Gods power, the same power that was exerted when He raised up Jesus from the dead.

So believing, having Faith and Hope in God in the matters of Salvation is Gods work for us and in us.

But if we insist that our believing and faith is of ourselves, then we make these things our work !
 
Edward said:
Is that your point or is there a point beyond that?

You have this same exact thread on a different forum, lol! Have you got your answer yet?
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Thats my point.
But if we insist that our believing and faith is of ourselves, then we make these things our work !
 
brightfame52 said:
Everybody who conditions salvation on something they do, thats who !
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Yeah but everybody who? Are people coming to you telling you that you have to go do something to get saved? Because they aren't to me.

I'm tryna unnderstand, where you coming from with this,
and where you are going with it.
 
brightfame52 said:
Everybody and anybody !
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Have you talked with any of them?

I'm just curious and feel like I'm missing your point somehow or something because this thread is over 100 pages and 2200 replies...plus you have the same thread in another forum talking about the same thing over and over.I'm think that the amount of threads and replies would indicate a deeper and more significant point that you want us to see?

We are saved by grace through faith. We receive two things when Jesus comes. Salvation and our inheritance which is our reward, I believe. We work for more inheritance, build up your treasures in Heaven...that is what the works are about. Everyone has to do works but not for the salvation. To show God that we love Him and have been listening to Him teaching us.

Nobody believes in God without miracles. They always want a sign. God is good sport so He does do miracles for the people. Does God want a sign from us? One that shows that we are more than hearers but actually doers of the word? Would that be fair? I think it's fair. Besides, you get to help people and that feels good.

I think the only people who can argue about their right to be lazy and not go out of their way for neighbors and strangers are the ones who should ponder the parable of the Talents. God gave everyone skills & talents, and you did good with it eh? Some got 5 some got 2 some got one. The one that did not make the Lord a profit on his own, was strpped of his talent. Wow. More works. Better works. Becase it shows I love the Lord and am obedient. It helps someone. It carries a reward for it. That's win/win/win to give the guy somey to help him. He wouldn't be out here in the cold if he didn't have a woman and perhaps kids back home. So $5 bucks don't help that guy! Maybe 40 or 100?

Jesus said, sell all you have and give to the poor and you will have treasure in Heaven. Do you believe that?
 
Edward said:
Have you talked with any of them?

I'm just curious and feel like I'm missing your point somehow or something because this thread is over 100 pages and 2200 replies...plus you have the same thread in another forum talking about the same thing over and over.I'm think that the amount of threads and replies would indicate a deeper and more significant point that you want us to see?

We are saved by grace through faith. We receive two things when Jesus comes. Salvation and our inheritance which is our reward, I believe. We work for more inheritance, build up your treasures in Heaven...that is what the works are about. Everyone has to do works but not for the salvation. To show God that we love Him and have been listening to Him teaching us.

Nobody believes in God without miracles. They always want a sign. God is good sport so He does do miracles for the people. Does God want a sign from us? One that shows that we are more than hearers but actually doers of the word? Would that be fair? I think it's fair. Besides, you get to help people and that feels good.

I think the only people who can argue about their right to be lazy and not go out of their way for neighbors and strangers are the ones who should ponder the parable of the Talents. God gave everyone skills & talents, and you did good with it eh? Some got 5 some got 2 some got one. The one that did not make the Lord a profit on his own, was strpped of his talent. Wow. More works. Better works. Becase it shows I love the Lord and am obedient. It helps someone. It carries a reward for it. That's win/win/win to give the guy somey to help him. He wouldn't be out here in the cold if he didn't have a woman and perhaps kids back home. So $5 bucks don't help that guy! Maybe 40 or 100?

Jesus said, sell all you have and give to the poor and you will have treasure in Heaven. Do you believe that?
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I have read peoples post where they believe that they are saved after the exercise faith in Christ or repentance, I read it all the time. Thats works
 
brightfame52 said:
I have read peoples post where they believe that they are saved after the exercise faith in Christ or repentance, I read it all the time. Thats works
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Ok. I just don't know where this thread is going. It doesn't seem to ever go anywhere. I read it sometimes, and scratch my head. Your point was made on page 1 Brother!
 
Edward said:
Ok. I just don't know where this thread is going. It doesn't seem to ever go anywhere. I read it sometimes, and scratch my head. Your point was made on page 1 Brother!
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Its not difficult. Its about people who condition their salvation on the act of their faith or believing, they are in essence basing their salvation on their works, which is against salvation by grace. If that doesnt apply to you, dont sweat it.
 
Is Faith/believing a work ? Yes, but in its proper context its a work done through grace,the grace of the Spirit following new birth or new creation. Its written Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Now believing Faith is one of those good works God hath before ordained that we should walk in them Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

So believing follows the workmanship of God, being created in Christ Jesus unto good works, versus because of good works. Thats why works and faith in scripture can be contrasted, since believing is not of ourselves as natural men, but as new creatures in Christ. Its only when we claim faith/believing as coming from the natural man that the contrast is no longer valid! 29
 
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