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Is believing/faith a work ?

brightfame52 said:
Most people I know make faith, their believing a condition they met in order for God to Justify them, thats works.
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"to the one who does not work, but believes" Romans 4:5

You keep making believing the same thing as working. Paul doesn't do that. He distinguishes between the two as to what justifies and what doesn't justify. Faith justifies, works do not:

28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 3:28
 
Jethro Bodine said:
"to the one who does not work, but believes" Romans 4:5

You keep making believing the same thing as working. Paul doesn't do that. He distinguishes between the two as to what justifies and what doesn't justify. Faith justifies, works do not:

28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 3:28
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If one conditions their Justification before God on their act of believing, thats works, totally against Rom 4:5 and Rom 3:28
 
brightfame52 said:
If one conditions their Justification before God on their act of believing, thats works, totally against Rom 4:5 and Rom 3:28
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Those verses literally say a person is justified by faith/believing. But you say that's 'works' and so a person can not be justified by faith/believing. :neutral
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Those verses literally say a person is justified by faith/believing. But you say that's 'works' and so a person can not be justified by faith/believing. :neutral
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I know what the verses say and that very well, yet they dont say mans Justification/Salvation are conditioned on faith or believing, that would be works, and goes totally against what those verses say and stand for.
 
brightfame52 said:
I know what the verses say and that very well, yet they dont say mans Justification/Salvation are conditioned on faith or believing, that would be works, and goes totally against what those verses say and stand for.
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Read it:

"5 to the one who does not work, but believes" Romans 4:5

Believing is being contrasted with work, not equated with it as you are doing.
 
Did you not say this sir:
brightfame52 said:
The word “believe” in the Greek text is “pisteuo” which is a verb denoting a work. If a person could believe in Christ before they are born again by the Spirit, it would mean they have done a work and that would mean they have worked for their salvation which is totally against what the scriptures teach. Ephesians 2:8-9
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8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

It seems like my comment was very fitting.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Read it:

"5 to the one who does not work, but believes" Romans 4:5

Believing is being contrasted with work, not equated with it as you are doing.
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I told you Im familiar with that verse, says nothing about believing being a condition man meets to be saved or justified, in fact its against that concept.
 
brightfame52 said:
Like I said if a person conditions their salvation on believing thats works. You are conditioning salvation on something you did.
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My faith is based on Jesus Christ, who did the work by taking my sins upon himself and granted me the free gift of salvation.
.
 
Highway54 said:
Did you not say this sir:


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

It seems like my comment was very fitting.
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Again, whoever makes faith, believing a condition they meet to get saved, thats works.
 
Cooper said:
My faith is based on Jesus Christ, who did the work by taking my sins upon himself and granted me the free gift of salvation.
.
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Sounds good, but if you believe that gift of faith was a condition you met in order for God to save or justify you, its works.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
"5 to the one who does not work, but believes" Romans 4:5

Are you the one who does not work, or the one who believes?
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Let me try to explain from a REFORM point of view the subtle difference (I'm not trying to change your mind)
1) Faith cometh by hearing Roman 10:17 (not all that hear come to believe, but this is necessary precursor)
2) The Spirit regenerates (born again) those God chose (the elect)
3) Step 2 causes one's desire to change with no work done by recipient (He now has Saving Faith)
4) everyone of step 3 is saved, no changing their Belief
5) we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1)

Same thing from Arminian point of view (lot more variance among individuals as to how this works IMO)
1) Faith cometh by hearing Roman 10:17 (not all that hear come to believe, but this is necessary precursor)
1b) Prevenient Grace to everyone to overcome depravity
1c) God's work in regards to saving a man is complete. Man does work (work is defined as doing something for a purpose) of believing salvificly thus he has Saving Faith
2) The Spirit regenerates (born again)
4) One must continue the work of believing till he dies to be saved OR ALTERNATE OPINION ... God's takes away 'free will' so one continues to believe salvificly till he dies
5) we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1)

So, Reform theology has God doing all the work leading to and continuing salvific faith till death (John 6:29)...
and Arminian individuals work with God to save themselves. Thus, reform think they do no work to be saved and believe Arminians believe they must do work to be saved.

Aside: Arminians theology is not organized such that one can seek out details of their theology by going to a central source so I am sure they will disagree amongst themselves and with me as to the process above.
 
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