Is believing/faith a work ?

[jaybo]

...not by the works of the law.
It is written..."Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal 2:16)

But then again, good works are the proof of our conversion..."For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Eph 2:10)

I know that there are two different kinds of works being discussed here, one for salvation and one because of salvation.
The works of the law pertain to the first one.

Suppose that a person, for one reason or another -- age, illness, living conditions, etc. -- can't perform "works". Does that mean that they lack the requirements of salvation?

 

[Hopeful]

I dont think you do agree, you just think you do. So far you have been a proponent of salvation by works.

I am indeed: the "works" of hearing and believing, repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and of enduring faithfully until the return of Christ Jesus with His angels.
But I am not a proponent of the "saved by the works of the Law" that Paul preached against.
Circumcision, dietary laws, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, tithing, and a long list of other things, will not save anybody.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, He is in us. Amen
This of course doesn’t mean that that our physical body is somehow in heaven in Christ.
Our physical body is here on earth.

It isn't "our" body anymore.
It is His vessel unto good works.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, again Christ is in us, and dwells in our spirit.

Isn't your spirit in your body?

This does not mean our flesh, our corrupt mortal body is in Christ.

Sorry you can't seem to grasp Gal 3:27..."For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
We are in Him as much as He is in us.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:1

Is your, and His, spirit in your body?
Can't a "body" be holy and sanctified?
Of course it can...and is, in the case of the repentant.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, because we are one spirit with Him, we are joined to the Lord where He is.
Remember the kingdom of God is within you.
This of course does not mean our corrupt mortal body is in heaven with Christ.

Why do you call it corrupt?
Subject to aging and deterioration may be better descriptions.
"Corrupt" reeks of sinfulness.

Not even dead people who are in heaven have their physical bodies there in Christ.

Almost all dead people are in the grave until Jesus returns.
Our vessels will always be individual beings, but the vessel is subservient to the mind.
It can't do anything the mind doesn't want.

Is your mind "in Christ"?
Mine sure is...thanks be to God.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, He will raise us up from the dead on the last day.


And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Romans 8:10-11


Please read these words —

• if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

The proximity to Rom 6 shows that, in context, Paul is referring to the body killed with Christ at our baptism. (Rom 6:3-7)
Not the one raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
The body was killed because of sin in us, but quickened by the Spirit of God.
It doesn't have sin in it anymore.
If it did, the person's alleged repentance form sin turned out to be a lie to God.
Liars will not be judged worthy of eternal life.

Our body will die because of sin, but Christ dwells in us and will raise us from the dead.

Our bodies will die because of old age, disease, or injury.
Because Adam and Eve loused things up.

 

[Hopeful]

Does God ever change? Is Jesus's Covenant that He instituted a blood covenant?

God doesn't change, but some of His decisions have.
The end of the world, except for Noah's 8, and the return from Persia of the Israelites attest to that.
And the fact that we have an entirely new covenant show He changes conditions, parameters, guidelines, and practices.

Salvation is a free gift not obtained by the works of the law. But salvation does require for us to make an action in order to be able to receive it.

Agreed.

We ask God to come into our heart and say the sinners prayer.

Can you show me that in the bible?
I will stick with Acts 2:38, myself.

Participation with God is what He wants from us. So the new covenant was instituted with the catchphrase, ask and ye shall receive. (Genius!) He just wants the conversation! And to obey.

Agreed.

Some would construe bending the knee and praying to be a work. Others think even pushing a button on an elevator on the sabbath is works. But that's still not talking about the works of the law saving a man, it can't.

Agreed.

There's works of the flesh (which is anything the body does), and works of the spirit. (which is anything your spirit does). So technically having faith within oneself could be a work or laying hands on someone and praying for their healing is a work. But the funny thing is, once you lay hands on someone and do them a good work (which is God's will), suddenly there are 50 more wanting to have hands layed upon them also. Because that is God's heart for us. So good works sort of snowball when the Lord's around.

Agreed.

 

[Hopeful]

"Those lazy concerning their faith will not endure." is not from the Bible.

Ever used a para-phrase?
I included Matt. 10:22 for you.
Enduring till the end is the antithesis of laziness.

 

[Hopeful]

Suppose that a person, for one reason or another -- age, illness, living conditions, etc. -- can't perform "works". Does that mean that they lack the requirements of salvation?

It depends on which "work" you refer.
Trust that God can see to your requirements "for salvation"
As for water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins...Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch were able to find water in a desert.
If you can't serve others at a food bank or orphanage because you are sick, it will not harm your chances of eternal life.

 

[JLB]

It isn't "our" body anymore.
It is His vessel unto good works.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


Our physical body is not “in Christ”, but is here on earth.





JLB

 

[JLB]

Isn't your spirit in your body?

My spirit, soul and body are what makes me a human being.

My spirit is in Christ.

My body is not “in Christ”.

 

[JLB]

The proximity to Rom 6 shows that, in context, Paul is referring to the body killed with Christ at our baptism.

Our physical body is not literally killed at water baptism.

Our physical body still contains after water baptism.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

And we are not to commit sin.

Our physical body is not “in Christ”, but is here on earth.

I am in Christ, as I was baptized into Him and into His death and burial, and raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)

I walk in a world with Christ in it.
I walk in a world with Christ in me, and me in Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

My spirit, soul and body are what makes me a human being.

My spirit is in Christ.

My body is not “in Christ”.

I suggest you get baptized into Christ.
It is written..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (Rom 6:3)
It is written..."For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
(Gal 3:27)
If you have not been baptized into Christ, your old man of the flesh is still alive and you are not walking in the Spirit.

 

[Hopeful]

Our physical body is not literally killed at water baptism.

Sorry you can't believe that, as it is what set me free from sinning.
No flesh, no vile affections, and no lusts.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

Our physical body still contains (sic) after water baptism.

I'm guessing you were going to say "sin" there.
Don't you believe that Christ died to take away the sin of the world?
I do.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

Obey Paul's exhortation and live forever.
Disobey, and have your name removed from the book of life.

Paul goes on..."Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Rom 6:16)
The mind controls who you serve.
And, thanks be to God, we have the mind of Christ after our death and rebirth.

 

[JLB]

I suggest you get baptized into Christ.

The Holy Spirit baptized me into Christ when I was born again.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13



JLB

 

[JLB]

Sorry you can't believe that, as it is what set me free from sinning.
No flesh, no vile affections, and no lusts.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

Crucifying the flesh is a lifestyle, not a one time thing that happens at water baptism.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:12-16

• Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

• And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
Romans 6:19

• so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

This is spoken to baptized Christians.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Obey Paul's exhortation and live forever.
Disobey, and have your name removed from the book of life.

Agreed

 

[Hopeful]

The Holy Spirit baptized me into Christ when I was born again.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

With..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (Rom 6:3)
And..."For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
(Gal 3:27)
If your baptism was into Christ, how can you still have sin in you...seeing as there is no sin in Christ?

 

[Hopeful]

Crucifying the flesh is a lifestyle, not a one time thing that happens at water baptism.

It took Jesus three (?) hours to die on the cross.
How long will it take us?
My death was instantaneous, as was my burial and my being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:12-16

• Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
• And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
Romans 6:19

• so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

This is spoken to baptized Christians.

I thank God for it too, as every time I read it I am strengthened in the fight for my soul.
Not only do I know I must be careful with my life, but I also know it is possible to obey Paul's exhortations.