Is believing/faith a work ?

[brightfame52]

Repenting and or believing are acts of the mind and the will which makes them works.20

 

[brightfame52]

I am indeed: the "works" of hearing and believing, repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and of enduring faithfully until the return of Christ Jesus with His angels.
But I am not a proponent of the "saved by the works of the Law" that Paul preached against.
Circumcision, dietary laws, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, tithing, and a long list of other things, will not save anybody.

There you go, you promote the false teaching of salvation by works.

 

[JLB]

It took Jesus three (?) hours to die on the cross.
How long will it take us?
My death was instantaneous, as was my burial and my being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

Water Baptism is symbolic of being buried with Him and being raised in the "likeness" not literal resurrection.


For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, Romans 6:5

We still have a body that contains sin, and we still must put to death the sinful desires of our flesh, by the Spirit.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Romans 6:12-13


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13






JLB

 

[JLB]

I thank God for it too, as every time I read it I am strengthened in the fight for my soul.
Not only do I know I must be careful with my life, but I also know it is possible to obey Paul's exhortations.

Amen.

Good word! Well said.

 

[JLB]

Repenting and or believing are acts of the mind and the will which makes them works.20

Confessing Jesus as Lord is the act of obedience, the obedience of faith, by which we are saved.

Believing in our heart is an act of our spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

Confessing Jesus as Lord is the act of obedience, the obedience of faith, by which we are saved.

Believing in our heart is an act of our spirit.

Confessing, believing, obeying are all actions, therefore works, if you conditioned your salvation on doing those actions/ works, then you condition salvation by your works, its as simple as that.

 

[Edward]

God doesn't change, but some of His decisions have.
The end of the world, except for Noah's 8, and the return from Persia of the Israelites attest to that.
And the fact that we have an entirely new covenant show He changes conditions, parameters, guidelines, and practices.

Yeah but that don't change the nature of a blood covenant. A blood covenant needs reaffirmed every day. In other words, walk in the Spirit.

And you're right, if enough people pray it can change God's mind and judgments. We seen that in the 2016 Presidential Election, didn't we?!

Water Baptism is symbolic of being buried with Him and being raised in the "likeness" not literal resurrection.


For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, Romans 6:5

We still have a body that contains sin, and we still must put to death the sinful desires of our flesh, by the Spirit.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Romans 6:12-13


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13






JLB

That seems to be the crux of it. There will still be plenty of trials and temptations on this Funhouse Carnival we call Earth. The Lord uses these situations to test us and as an ideal teaching tool. We are very clearly instructed to resist evil and to be more than an overcomer, a conqueror in Christ.

But we can't forget that there is rank in heaven. Do you want to be the doorman when we get there? I don't. (Why do they always make Peter the doorman?! I bet Peter is Not the doorman, he has higher rank than that, Lol!

So to lay up our treasures in heaven, we are able to do this in several ways. Through intercessory prayer, helping the poor, obeying your Lord, and to shine your light (the Lord's light shining through you) to the world in Christ.

...AKA, works. So anyway you look at it we can't separate good works from faith. This is how the river of life flows through us.

 

[Hopeful]

Repenting and or believing are acts of the mind and the will which makes them works.20

Yes.
But not the works of the Law that Paul was down on.

 

[Hopeful]

There you go, you promote the false teaching of salvation by works.

There is no salvation without proof of salvation.
Our love of God above all else and our love of our neighbors proves we are converted.
Christianity is work !

 

[Hopeful]

Water Baptism is symbolic of being buried with Him and being raised in the "likeness" not literal resurrection.

If it is only symbolic, then I guess our rebirth, death of the old man, and remission of sins are only symbolic too.
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Rom 6:5)
I guess our resurrection is only symbolic too?
I'm am glad I don't believe any of that.
If it is only symbolic, then Gal 5:24 isn't true..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
No wonder you think being 100% obedient to God is a false doctrine.

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, Romans 6:5

Yep, just like it.
In fact, as the word says, "with Him".

We still have a body that contains sin, and we still must put to death the sinful desires of our flesh, by the Spirit.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Romans 6:12-13

You seem to keep misreading this scripture.
It doesn't say..."do not let the sin in your mortal body reign".
Is says "do not let it in" !

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13

Thank God for those words, and thank God for showing us how to put to keep the body, and its deeds, dead.
Of course, if it is only symbolic, we have no hope of actually mortifying the flesh.
I am so glad it isn't only symbolic.
I worship my God who made it possible to not only cast off the flesh but to also be raised a new creature with Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

Confessing, believing, obeying are all actions, therefore works, if you conditioned your salvation on doing those actions/ works, then you condition salvation by your works, its as simple as that.

Will adulterers, liars, thieves, idolaters, or murderers be saved?
What must they NOT do to be saved?
Must they quit committing adultery, lying, worshipping false gods, and killing folks?
Or must they keep doing those ungodly things to be saved?

 

[Hopeful]

Yeah but that don't change the nature of a blood covenant. A blood covenant needs reaffirmed every day. In other words, walk in the Spirit.

Which covenant?
The first one or the final one?

And you're right, if enough people pray it can change God's mind and judgments. We seen that in the 2016 Presidential Election, didn't we?!

I have no idea what you refer to.

That seems to be the crux of it. There will still be plenty of trials and temptations on this Funhouse Carnival we call Earth. The Lord uses these situations to test us and as an ideal teaching tool. We are very clearly instructed to resist evil and to be more than an overcomer, a conqueror in Christ.

It is a shame there is a doctrine that vilifies our rejection of temptation, or learning, or any other action manifesting a true repentance form sin and love of our neighbors.
All are "actions".

But we can't forget that there is rank in heaven. Do you want to be the doorman when we get there? I don't. (Why do they always make Peter the doorman?! I bet Peter is Not the doorman, he has higher rank than that, Lol!

Have you a scripture pointing out "rank"?
I'll be happy just to be there.

So to lay up our treasures in heaven, we are able to do this in several ways. Through intercessory prayer, helping the poor, obeying your Lord, and to shine your light (the Lord's light shining through you) to the world in Christ.
...AKA, works. So anyway you look at it we can't separate good works from faith. This is how the river of life flows through us.

Amen.

 

[Edward]

Which covenant?
The first one or the final one?

Blood covenants in general, though when I wrote I had the new covenant in mind (that Jesus instituted. (Luke 22;20) as he bled on the cross.

It is a shame there is a doctrine that vilifies our rejection of temptation, or learning, or any other action manifesting a true repentance form sin and love of our neighbors.
All are "actions".

Agreed.

Have you a scripture pointing out "rank"?
I'll be happy just to be there.

Actually, there's plenty of them. Scripture speaks of different rank of Angels. Archangels Jude 1:9, Genesis 3:22-24 talks about the Cherubim Angel that was placed to guard the tree of Life, Guardian Angels Matthew 18:10

How about this?
Matthew 5:19
19 So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven..../

So if some will be called least and others will be called great, then there you have it. Some will be above others. That's ranking. I remember hearing a sermon where he explained that heaven is sort of set up like a temple building in that there is an outer court, and an inner court, and the Holy of Holies. And the outer court folks are not allowed into the Holy of Holies. But that, they will very much so still be happy and satisfied due to their cup runneth over. But it's true that some people's cups are thimble sized where others have led a keg size life for the Lord. Along those lines. (That from memory and no scriptures for any right here)

 

[OzSpen]

Repenting and or believing are acts of the mind and the will which makes them works.20

bf,

Bible verses please!

Oz

 

[JLB]

If it is only symbolic, then I guess our rebirth, death of the old man, and remission of sins are only symbolic too

No sir.

The going down into death and rising up again, of water baptism are symbolic of the resurrection to come, when He returns on the last Day.

 

[Hopeful]

Blood covenants in general, though when I wrote I had the new covenant in mind (that Jesus instituted. (Luke 22;20) as he bled on the cross.



Agreed.



Actually, there's plenty of them. Scripture speaks of different rank of Angels. Archangels Jude 1:9, Genesis 3:22-24 talks about the Cherubim Angel that was placed to guard the tree of Life, Guardian Angels Matthew 18:10

How about this?
Matthew 5:19
19 So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven..../

So if some will be called least and others will be called great, then there you have it. Some will be above others. That's ranking. I remember hearing a sermon where he explained that heaven is sort of set up like a temple building in that there is an outer court, and an inner court, and the Holy of Holies. And the outer court folks are not allowed into the Holy of Holies. But that, they will very much so still be happy and satisfied due to their cup runneth over. But it's true that some people's cups are thimble sized where others have led a keg size life for the Lord. Along those lines. (That from memory and no scriptures for any right here)

I do understand your "ranking" of angels, (though It isn't clear which is higher or lower).
Matt 5:19 is a good one though.
Then again, some would say we may be working to achieve a higher rank...LOL!

 

[Hopeful]

No sir.

The going down into death and rising up again, of water baptism are symbolic of the resurrection to come, when He returns on the last Day.

If that is the case, both still have a perfectly sinless ending!
You seem to view water baptism as symbolic, but drop it there at the act.
Why not the outcome too?

Our death, burial, and being raised with Christ are actual, to those whose flesh has been destroyed so they can walk henceforth in the Spirit.
It is the culmination of the prophetic "casting away of the flesh", at circumcision.

It is written..."In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;" (Col 2:11-13)

Paul seemed to think it real and not just symbolic.

 

[Edward]

I do understand your "ranking" of angels, (though It isn't clear which is higher or lower).
Matt 5:19 is a good one though.
Then again, some would say we may be working to achieve a higher rank...LOL!

It's not for rank though, it's to bring glory to God alone by being a profitable servant for him.

I can say that I don't want to be a plumber again, Lol. That's as far as my desire for rank goes.

 

[brightfame52]

Is the act of Faith a Work ? Yes it is, and here's some reasons why

1. Because we are commanded to believe (as we are) to love one another, as he gave us commandment, 1 John 3:23.

2. To obey a command, is a work; but to believe, is to obey a command, 1 John 3:23, 24. Faith is an obeying of the will of God; therefore it's a work, and a good work.

3. It's a work, because we are reproved for the smallness of our faith: Christ said, "O ye of little faith," Matt. 6:30, "why are ye fearful? wherefore do ye doubt, O ye of little faith," Matt. 8:26. If faith were not acted by us (although the power is of God) why are we reproved for not believing?

4. It's a work, because the Saints are exhorted to exercise faith: "Let us draw near with full assurance of faith," Heb. 10:22. We are not exhorted to nothing but to that which is our duty, as it is to do a good work, as believing is.

5. It's a work, because to believe is a work of all the faculties of the soul, viz.: memory, conscience, affections, principally the understanding and will, Rom. 10:9,10.

6. To receive a thing is an act of the whole man; but to believe in Christ is to receive Him: 1 John 1:12. Therefore, to believe in Christ is a work.

7. Because unbelief is a work of darkness; therefore to believe is a work of righteousness, Tit. 3:5.

8. Because, to a good work faith is required, therefore, it partakes of the nature of a good work, and so is a part of every good work. (Heb. 11:4)

9. It's a work, because we are said to do it: If thou believest, I do believe, Acts 8:37. To believe is the action of the heart, viz.: will: With the heart man believeth. He does it as truly as he confesseth with his mouth, Rom. 10:9, 10.

10. If to confess Christ be a duty and a work (though by grace we do both), then is the act of believing a work also, and a work that we do, and is one of those works of righteousness that we have done, Tit. 3:5 with Isa. 64:6. https://www.pristinegrace.org/media.php?id=798
Click to expand...

See believing on Christ is a command, something which is done in obedience. Paul answered the Phillipian Jailor when he asked what shall he DO to be saved, and Paul answered Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ Acts 16:30-31

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Now interestingly enough the word believe here the verb pisteuō and its in the imperative mood which means:

Corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/act/16/31/t_conc_1034031

Yes believing in Jesus Christ is a work done by the one obeying the imperative to believe on Him. So if we say that God saved or Christ saved us from the penalty of our sins because we believed on Christ, and God responded to our obedience and saved us from our sins, then we are in essence saying we are saved by our work of believing. Reference is made to samuel richardson, his work " Justification by Christ alone" for many of these points.

 

[brightfame52]

bf,

Bible verses please!

Oz

Ive made my point already !