brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Is pisteou the word for believe a verb or not ?
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Is believing/faith a work ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Thanks for your reply, Oz. I'm going to have to ponder/research this topic further.
Roger
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
So again you condition salvation on works, which is an enemy to Grace my friend.
Can you be saved without hearing the truth?
No.
Can you be saved without believing?
No.
Can you be saved without repenting from sinning?
No.
Can you be saved without having your past sins remitted in the name of Jesus Christ?
No.
And yet none of those soul saving actions are the "works" of the Law that Paul preached against. ie, circumcision, dietary laws, clothing laws, tithing, feast keeping, etc.
They are all gifts from God for our salvation.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Believing or Faith is contrasted with works Salvation because one must be saved already in order to believe in Christ. So when you see verses like Rom 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
1 Cor 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
1 Pet 2:7
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
Believing is evidence of being in a saved state, not a condition to get into a saved state. When this truth is adhered to, its then believing is in contrast to works salvation or justification23
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
1 Cor 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
1 Pet 2:7
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
Believing is evidence of being in a saved state, not a condition to get into a saved state. When this truth is adhered to, its then believing is in contrast to works salvation or justification23
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Again, you condition salvation by your works, not good friend.
You are not giving the meaning of pisteuō from a reliable source. We are NOT discussing whether it is a verb, noun, adjective or relative pronoun. We are discussing the MEANING of the word in a given context, considering the syntax of the sentence.
Oz
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Is it a verb or not ? And then define a verb 1
We put to death the deeds of the body by the power of the Spirit. We don't allow the sinful desires of our flesh to leads us or control us, rather we desire to be lead by the Spirit, in which we obey what the Spirit leads us to do.
JLB
We are discussing the MEANING of the word and not the GRAMMAR of the word. Do you get it yet?
Amen to that.
Thankfully, those acts you label "works" are not the works of the Law that Paul preached against.
I am grateful for repentance from sin so I never need sin again.
I am grateful for baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins so I can be cleansed.
And I am grateful for the ability to endure faithfully till my end.
I'ld hate to be a sinning, dirty, failure at love ever again.
It's something each of us must do daily.
Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. Luke 9:23
JLB
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Is it a verb or not ?
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Amen to being an enemy to Grace ??
Okay, if you don't mind that I ask, isn't Christ the Saviour? If He is, how then does
that relate to your post above?
Oz,
I did a little research into the "it" of Eph 2:8, and the result was kind of interesting.
Now, as a caveat, I'm not an expert on the different Bible translation nor the interlinear that accompanies them, but when I researched that verse, it looked to me like the "it is" isn't actually part of the verse. I realize the words of a "phrase" may mean they're inferred and germane just not present but am unsure.
Please observe:
not
g3756
οὐκ οὐou
PRT-N
of
g1537
ἐξ ἐκek
PREP
yourselves:
g5216
ὑμῶν ὑμῶνhymōn
[it is]
PHRASE
the
g3588
τὸ ὁho
T-NSN
gift
g1435
δῶρον δῶρονdōron
N-NSN
of God:
PHRASE
g2316
θεοῦ θεόςtheos
N-GSM
However, after pondering it, it seemed to me that even if the "it is" is valid, then it would be corollary to the "and that not of yourselves," and not to the "faith," "saved," or "grace." So, what I'm trying to say is the "it is" associates to the "and that not of yourselves" and therefore is the PROCESS by which the "faith", "saved" and "grace" is given, but not directly to them. By they being of the process, then God Himself must be the gift because He is the process.
Whew -I know I didn't do too good a job with this, but I'm hoping it makes sense anyway.
If you (or anyone) would like me to clarify or to continue this discussion, please don't hesitate to reply.
Roger
He didn’t mention any works.
He mentioned believing, faith, repentance…
Please don’t misrepresent what others are saying, as this only makes for arguing.
JLB
It must not have been a true crucifixion if you have to keep repeating the act daily.
"Follow me" where?
To Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection...just as Rom 6:3-7 says.
Accomplished at our "immersion" into Christ at water baptism.
"Once dead, always dead" is how we should view our crucifixion of the flesh, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
Of course without a true repentance from sin, any baptism is just a bath.