Is believing/faith a work ?

[heartwashed]

I dont believe you share the same Faith in Christs death to save, as Paul and myself do !

I don't believe that you share the same faith in Christ's death to save, as Paul and myself do.

You would have to understand that those who reject faith in Christ do not avail themselves of the sacrifice that was made; while He did indeed die for everyone, 1 John 2:2.

 

[Hopeful]

No, that is not what Acts 22:16 is saying. On the surface it may seem so, but upon deeper
examination, it does not.

It is saying exactly that.
Getup and wash away your sins at your water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

[Act 22:16 KJV] 16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
First, "wash away" is not the same word as "forgive" if that's what you're implying.

As Peter said it first, in Acts 2:38, why would it suddenly change later?
It didn't.

To "wash away" is to have one's sinful beliefs washed away by the water of the truth of the gospel and in the receiving of it; that is, through the preaching and teaching of the gospel (and through the Holy Spirit), Paul's understanding/ beliefs/perceptions changed regarding the basis of salvation as a man cannot forgive his own sins, but which would have been the case and Christ would not be the Saviour, had "wash away" meant forgive. Paul's sin which was to be "washed away" was his belief from within by his old conscience - a sinful belief in law and works for salvation (which up to then had been the foundation of his life), unto a belief in Christ as Saviour. However, only by first being forgiven, was it possible for it to be washed away, otherwise, impossible. This is an entirely different matter than of God forgiving one's sins. The washing away came after his salvation which had already occurred, and through salvation alone, was sin his forgiven -- the washing away was not that.
Second, the "baptism", was a baptism unto the name of the Lord Jesus, but only as a physical and symbol act (having no spiritual efficacy of itself), and was not true spiritual baptism, which baptism was placed upon his spirit by the Holy Spirt, not upon his flesh. We know this because the baptism of the verse was from a man to a man, not from God to a man. This spiritual baptism had already occurred on the road to Damascus from God.
Third, "calling on the name of the Lord", would occur through his newly acquired faith in the Lord which was imparted to him through the Holy Spirit and realized by him by preaching/teaching. Through the presence of the Holy Spirit, that teaching found place within him, and by that, his conscience came to know Jesus Christ, and he called upon the name of the Lord. It is by this same cause that everyone who becomes saved calls upon the name of the Lord - there is no other way to know the Lord but by becoming saved.
Fourth, in Acts 9:18 even before Paul's baptism, the scales fell from Paul's eyes. Since it was before his physical baptism, scales falling from his eyes signifying that the Holy Spirit (who had been given unto Paul on the road to Damacus) was already present within Paul and no one besides Jesus Christ had caused it. We can know this, because man cannot dictate to God or force when someone is to be baptized in the spirit.

You can complicate it all you want, but water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the remission of sins.

I don't understand your reference to Rom 6: 3- 4 - relates to Acts.

Paul wrote that our baptism facilitates our entrance into, and participation with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.
That is in addition to our remission of past sins.
Rom 6 also describes the killing of our old man of sin, allowing a new creature to be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

[1Pe 3:21 KJV]
21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

"...by the resurrection of Christ".
Killed with Him, buried with Him, and raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
The result is written in Rom 6:7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."

[Heb 10:2, 22 KJV]
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. ...
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
[2Co 1:12 KJV] 12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
[1Ti 1:5 KJV] 5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and [of] a good conscience, and [of] faith unfeigned:
[Tit 1:15 KJV]
15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
[Heb 9:9, 14 KJV]
9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; ...
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
[1Co 12:13 KJV]
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[1Co 1:2 KJV] 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Has your interpretation of baptism allowed you to be a non-sinner..."freed from sin"? (Rom 6:7)

 

[Hopeful]

Well, thanks for the advice, but He has already determined who would be called - it's a done deal. By the very fact of trying to do something for it, we demonstrate that we aren't of it.
BTW, in 2:38, it is Jesus Christ who brings the remission of sins, not by baptism.
Should we believe that baptism or any else for that matter is needed from someone to become saved/born again, then we are still under law and therefore in great spiritual jeopardy indeed.

What Law was it that decreed we need to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of past sins?
How many of the commands in Rom 12 do you reject for fear of being called a Law keeper?
Being a Christian is being lawful.
Love God above all else and love your neighbor as you love yourself !
That is the synopsis of the Law and prophets.

 

[Hopeful]

I dont know, what Jesus do you mean ? Describe the one you talking about in detail. Exactly who is he, what did he accomplish, why, and for who ? Be detailed because there are many false christs being preached.

Any Jesus Christ the Son of God?

 

[brightfame52]

Read your Bible and receive the Jesus that is described for you there.

Have you done that?

I think that you have not; because it seems to me that your Jesus isn't the Jesus of the Bible.

But I would suggest that you pray a prayer such as is follows:

"Dear Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who is described for me in the Bible, I call on Your name for salvation from sin."

Have you done that?

If you haven't, then you are not born again.

If you don't know the Bible well enough to know the details of who He is, it suffices that you accept Him as the Jesus of the Bible. You will then get to know Him by reading your Bible on a daily basis.

You may have received the Jesus of the Bible and yet have an inaccurate understanding of what the Bible says about Him. Keep reading, until you understand who He is more accurately.

Pro 3:5, Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6, In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Like I said, I dont know what jesus you talking about, and you haven't given me any details as I have asked. So at this point, I dont know who the jesus is whom you speak of in your mind.

However in accordance with the theme of this thread, believing faith is a work, and people who think they get saved by their act /work of believing, are promoting salvation by their works, a false refuge !

 

[brightfame52]

I don't believe that you share the same faith in Christ's death to save, as Paul and myself do.

You would have to understand that those who reject faith in Christ do not avail themselves of the sacrifice that was made; while He did indeed die for everyone, 1 John 2:2.

The Jesus Christ Paul and myself believe in, He saved us by His Cross Work Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

When He saved us He gave us Faith ! Faith is given to them because of the Cross of Christ.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I dont know what all that suppose to mean, nevertheless, you said Christs death in and of itself saves no one ? That doesnt sound right to me, I agree with Paul Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

In essence Paul is saying the Cross Work of Christ saved him ! It agrees with what he wrote in Gal 1:4-5

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

I dont believe you share the same Faith in Christs death to save, as Paul and myself do !

Paul gloried in Christs' death because It shows the extent of his willingness to forgive even the most gruesome sins against himself,

they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love. Psa.109:5

Our Father didn't view his Son on the cross with contempt. The wicked did.

 

[heartwashed]

Like I said, I dont know what jesus you talking about, and you haven't given me any details as I have asked. So at this point, I dont know who the jesus is whom you speak of in your mind.

However in accordance with the theme of this thread, believing faith is a work, and people who think they get saved by their act /work of believing, are promoting salvation by their works, a false refuge !

Again, I am talking about the Jesus of the Bible. Have you received Him?

I think that your doctrine is just your excuse to reject Christ so that you can blame God for your unbelief on your day of judgment.

You don't think you need to believe in order to be saved.

Well, let me say that the fact that you find yourself unable to believe means that you aren't saved.

But if you take a step of faith, that step of faith will bring salvation to you.

 

[rogerg]

For the sake of the readers I feel compelled to quote the verses so that they can see for themselves whether what you are saying is true or not.

Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

You should have highlighted the "Repent" because it is that which is the key to those verses (see 2Ti 2:25, Rom 2:4 below). Repentance is a gift given by the Holy Spirit to someone. No one, of themselves, can do it in truth. To those to whom that repentance is given and by which do they repent, the remainder of Acts 2:38 is freely given by God to them also. Everything pertaining to salvation is a gift of God, nothing of ourselves.
This is confirmed in 2:39 by it stating that it is only by God's promise to Abraham ("for the promise"), so that 2:38 only pertains to those whom God has called - the spiritual seed of Abraham (see Rom 9:8 below). Those being the elect, no one else is of the seed.

[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

[Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

[Rom 4:13-14 KJV]
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law [be] heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
[Rom 9:8 KJV]
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[rogerg]

It is saying exactly that.
Getup and wash away your sins at your water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

No. It is through the below. However, true belief/faith is a gift given only to the spiritual seed of Abraham, through the Holy Spirit

[Act 10:43 KJV]
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

You can complicate it all you want, but water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the remission of sins.

See the above. You are the one complicating it.
My belief is simple - as simple as it could be: that we do/can do nothing to acquire salvation - it
is simply as a gift of God through Jesus Christ, given to those whom He has chosen - that's it.

Paul wrote that our baptism facilitates our entrance into, and participation with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.
That is in addition to our remission of past sins.
Rom 6 also describes the killing of our old man of sin, allowing a new creature to be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

It is spiritual baptism through Christ, not water baptism. Water baptism is only a
representation or a symbol of the true, which is the spiritual.

[Jhn 1:33 KJV]
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

"...by the resurrection of Christ".
Killed with Him, buried with Him, and raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
The result is written in Rom 6:7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."

Not through water baptism but by spiritual baptism by the Holy Ghost because of Christ alone. See John 1:33 above.
The "good conscience" is of baptism by the Holy Ghost given to God's elect, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[1Pe 3:21 KJV] 21
The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Has your interpretation of baptism allowed you to be a non-sinner..."freed from sin"? (Rom 6:7)

Yes, by spiritual baptism of the Holy Ghost. A non-sinner is someone
who has come to no longer trusts in their works for salvation, which works are of Satan, but
instead, has been given a faith in Christ as Saviour.

 

[rogerg]

I have said my piece, and am not inclined to argue with you.

You are now responsible for the information that I have given to you; which is biblical information; and therefore based in truth.

Ditto to you and I happily and joyfully rest upon them because they are based solely upon Christ as Saviour

 

[brightfame52]

journey

Paul gloried in Christs' death because It shows the extent of his willingness to forgive even the most gruesome sins against himself,

False, he gloried in the Cross because it saved him, it crucified him to the world and the world to him, that's salvation ! And I share his testimony and Faith. You dont appear to have the same Faith in His Cross since you believe sinners He died for going to hell !

 

[brightfame52]

Again, I am talking about the Jesus of the Bible. Have you received Him?

I think that your doctrine is just your excuse to reject Christ so that you can blame God for your unbelief on your day of judgment.

You don't think you need to believe in order to be saved.

Well, let me say that the fact that you find yourself unable to believe means that you aren't saved.

But if you take a step of faith, that step of faith will bring salvation to you.

Describe in detail who the jesus is you speak of ? So far you have not done that.

 

[brightfame52]

roger

Repentance is a gift given by the Holy Spirit to someone.

Correct, repentance a change of mind accompanies the new birth

To those to whom that repentance is given and by which do they repent, the remainder of Acts 2:38 is freely given by God to them also. Everything pertaining to salvation is a gift of God, nothing of ourselves.

Unfortunately religious people don't accept that fact !

This is confirmed in 2:39 by it stating that it is only by God's promise to Abraham ("for the promise"), so that 2:38 only pertains to those whom God has called - the spiritual seed of Abraham (see Rom 9:8 below). Those being the elect, no one else is of the seed.

Good points. I would suggest that the called are also the vessels of mercy Paul mentions in Rom 9:23-24

23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

journey
False, he gloried in the Cross because it saved him,

The cross is Christ being persecuted unjustly,

And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? Act.9:4

Paul gloried in the cross, because our Lord patiently endured his sin of persecuting the faithful, instead of bringing him into judgment.

it crucified him to the world and the world to him, that's salvation !

Yes it did. Paul came to understand the example of the Messiahs' restraint, when he himself was persecuted for him.

And I share his testimony and Faith. You dont appear to have the same Faith in His Cross since you believe sinners He died for going to hell !

Only the ones who aren't repentant about it. You apparently believe people can repent for no reason. You also apparently believe people who see their own injustice can't repent.
Your interpretation of scripture makes Jesus' sacrifice completely useless.

 

[brightfame52]

rogerg

No. It is through the below. However, true belief/faith is a gift given only to the spiritual seed of Abraham, through the Holy Spirit

Agreed, God promised him a believing seed Gal 3:8

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Justification by Faith is a Gospel Promise, God gives Faith in fulfilling His Promise to Abrahams Spiritual Seed

whether jew or gentile Rom 3:30

seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

So Faith to believe is the work of God Jn 6:29

Yes, by spiritual baptism of the Holy Ghost. A non-sinner is someone
who has come to no longer trusts in their works for salvation, which works are of Satan, but
instead, has been given a faith in Christ as Saviour.

Amen and Faith in a Saviour not a possible saviour or a made available, potential saviour !

 

[rogerg]

So Faith to believe is the work of God Jn 6:29

So, it is both the faith to believe, and by it, that one believes, right?

 

[brightfame52]

So, it is both the faith to believe, and by it, that one believes, right?

Correct

 

[Hopeful]

No. It is through the below. However, true belief/faith is a gift given only to the spiritual seed of Abraham, through the Holy Spirit

[Act 10:43 KJV]
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


See the above. You are the one complicating it.
My belief is simple - as simple as it could be: that we do/can do nothing to acquire salvation - it
is simply as a gift of God through Jesus Christ, given to those whom He has chosen - that's it.


It is spiritual baptism through Christ, not water baptism. Water baptism is only a
representation or a symbol of the true, which is the spiritual.

[Jhn 1:33 KJV]
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.



Not through water baptism but by spiritual baptism by the Holy Ghost because of Christ alone. See John 1:33 above.
The "good conscience" is of baptism by the Holy Ghost given to God's elect, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[1Pe 3:21 KJV] 21
The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


Yes, by spiritual baptism of the Holy Ghost. A non-sinner is someone
who has come to no longer trusts in their works for salvation, which works are of Satan, but
instead, has been given a faith in Christ as Saviour.

A non-sinner is one who doesn't commit sin.
Does that describe you?

 

[heartwashed]

Describe in detail who the jesus is you speak of ? So far you have not done that.

It would take volumes to describe Him in detail (see John 21:25).

I am encouraging you to receive the Jesus of the Bible and then be willing to learn about Him through the Bible; keeping in mind what it says in Proverbs 3:5-6.

Have you done that?

Or are you going to keep trying to evade the question?