Is believing/faith a work ?

[rogerg]

Don't kid yourself.
Paul had to hear and believe all things concerning the faith, and then accept it as real, before he could move one inch in Christ.

Definitely not! You're changing that verse - that's your gospel, not God's. The law of life itself (Christ) made Paul free. Paul did nothing.

 

[Hopeful]

Definitely not! You're changing that verse - that's your gospel, not God's. The law of life itself (Christ) made Paul free. Paul did nothing.

Would Paul have been converted without hearing and believing what Jesus, and the church at Damascus, told him?
I don't think so.

 

[Hopeful]

Definitely not! You're changing that verse - that's your gospel, not God's. The law of life itself (Christ) made Paul free. Paul did nothing.

Would you be where you are now if you had not heard and believed the teachings of Christ?

 

[heartwashed]

Becoming saved occurs in two parts: 1) when one is placed under the law of the Spirit of life
in Christ Jesus, at a time of God's choosing, and 2) at the redemption of the body at the
end of time.

In Galatians 4:5-7, Paul tells us that the Galatians had the adoption as sons; which is defined in Romans 8:23 as the redemption of the body.

So, the Galatians already had that redemption...the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

 

[rogerg]

Would Paul have been converted without hearing and believing what Jesus, and the church at Damascus, told him?
I don't think so.

Paul was saved on the road to Damascus. What happened to him afterwards
was the result of that and of God's specific will for him. Those
whom God has chosen to salvation, will hear the gospel and respond to it. All Christian
attributes the saved exhibit, are because of having been saved, not the
cause salvation.

 

[rogerg]

So, the Galatians already had that redemption...the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

Paul tells us they were WAITING FOR the adoption, the REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY.

[Rom 8:23 KJV] 23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

 

[heartwashed]

Paul tells us they were WAITING FOR the adoption, the REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY.

[Rom 8:23 KJV] 23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

In Romans.

In Galatians 4:5-7, Paul tells the Galatians that they had already received the adoption as sons; which is defined in Romans 8:23 as the redemption of the body.

Yes, we are waiting for it; and that is how we receive it (1 John 3:2-3). If we currently have it it is because we are currently waiting for it.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1).

Compare Romans 8:24-25.

 

[rogerg]

Would you be where you are now if you had not heard and believed the teachings of Christ?

To believe is only as a gift from God. It is not possible for unsaved man to believe the true gospel
until and unless first becoming saved by God

[1Co 2:14 KJV]
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[rogerg]

In Galatians 4:5-7, Paul tells the Galatians that they had already received the adoption as sons; which is defined in Romans 8:23 as the redemption of the body.

No. You compare unlike verses. In Galatians they have been adopted only as the spiritual sons of God. The physical manifestation of that has yet to be manifested. They are sons because they are heirs of God, not because
they have received the final physical representation of that having occurred.

Yes, we are waiting for it; and that is how we receive it (1 John 3:2-3). If we currently have it it is because we are currently waiting for it.

I don't understand that.

 

[Randy]

What Christ do you believe in ? Who is He, what did He accomplish and for who did He accomplish it ? There are many false christs today.

This seems to be your standard defense. You know what Jesus we believe in.

My Jesus
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Your Jesus
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever is prewritten in the book of life will not perish, but have everlasting life.

What must I do to inherit eternal life?
My Jesus
If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

Your Jesus
You can't do anything. If your in the book of life your in otherwise you have no hope. I didn't come for you.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God; God in the flesh; who came to this earth to die for our sins according to the scriptures, and was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

Have you received this Jesus?

He will save you if you put your trust in Him.

So exactly whose sins are we talking about that he died for, be specific ? Also what was the outcome of the death, what success did it have Please be specific ?

 

[brightfame52]

This seems to be your standard defense. You know what Jesus we believe in.

My Jesus
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Your Jesus
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever is prewritten in the book of life will not perish, but have everlasting life.

What must I do to inherit eternal life?
My Jesus
If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

Your Jesus
You can't do anything. If your in the book of life your in otherwise you have no hope. I didn't come for you.

No, I dont believe in your jesus, such a jesus i reject !

 

[brightfame52]

I know you don't, but thescriptures say,

I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Isa.49:6

You believe the light goes on before sinners can see the Light, but the Light said,

They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Mk.2:17

So you're wrong from the starting gate.

In fact I hate the jesus you witness about, so now you know !

 

[journeyman]

In fact I hate the jesus you witness about, so now you know !

Now ask yourself, why would someone hate a Person who was very kind to people who weren't kind to him? Why would anyone of normal human intelligence, want to kill Someone who loved them?

 

[rogerg]

What must I do to inherit eternal life?
My Jesus
If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

I think you miss the point of those verses. He framed his question with "WHAT MUST I DO". If he was
to inherit eternal life of his own accord and actions, then those requirements would have to be achieved by him. However, not only must he attempt to achieve them, but actually achieve them to perfection, never once varying from that perfection throughout his entire life, and not only that, but must also sell all he had, give it to the poor, and follow Jesus. Now, while not obvious, those requirements are full of spiritual meaning and inferences. The spiritual are really the true requirements of the requirements and impossible for man to satisfy. Nevertheless, do you believe that you have attained, and will continue to attain, all of those of yourself since you are apparently depending upon yourself and your works to enter into eternal life? In effect, the point that Jesus was making to him without directly saying it, was that they cannot be achieved by man, and should he attempt them, he would fail - read the verses below.

Their discussion continued with these verses. Notice that the young man realized those requirements were
unattainable, and as not having yet been saved so as to have been given faith in Christ as Saviour instead of himself, he left being saddened. Notice also in verse 26 we are informed that salvation and eternal life can only be as a gift from God. Notice the "all things"; that is, that everything pertaining to salvation is by God.

[Mat 19:22, 25-26 KJV]
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. ...
25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[Randy]

I think you miss the point of those verses. He framed his question with "WHAT MUST I DO". If he was
to inherit eternal life of his own accord and actions, then those requirements would have to be achieved by him. However, not only must he attempt to achieve them, but actually achieve them to perfection, never once varying from that perfection throughout his entire life, and not only that, but must also sell all he had, give it to the poor, and follow Jesus. Now, while not obvious, those requirements are full of spiritual meaning and inferences. The spiritual are really the true requirements of the requirements and impossible for man to satisfy. Nevertheless, do you believe that you have attained, and will continue to attain, all of those of yourself since you are apparently depending upon yourself and your works to enter into eternal life? In effect, the point that Jesus was making to him without directly saying it, was that they cannot be achieved by man, and should he attempt them, he would fail - read the verses below.

Their discussion continued with these verses. Notice that the young man realized those requirements were
unattainable, and as not having yet been saved so as to have been given faith in Christ as Saviour instead of himself, he left being saddened. Notice also in verse 26 we are informed that salvation and eternal life can only be as a gift from God. Notice the "all things"; that is, that everything pertaining to salvation is by God.

[Mat 19:22, 25-26 KJV]
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. ...
25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Paul before Felix

My accusers did not find me arguing with anyone at the temple, or stirring up a crowd in the synagogues or anywhere else in the city. 13 And they cannot prove to you the charges they are now making against me. 14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

 

[rogerg]

Paul before Felix

My accusers did not find me arguing with anyone at the temple, or stirring up a crowd in the synagogues or anywhere else in the city. 13 And they cannot prove to you the charges they are now making against me. 14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

What's your point? That your conscience is clear?

 

[rogerg]

Paul before Felix

My accusers did not find me arguing with anyone at the temple, or stirring up a crowd in the synagogues or anywhere else in the city. 13 And they cannot prove to you the charges they are now making against me. 14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

My question to you stands:

do you believe that you have attained, and will continue to attain, all of those of yourself since you are apparently depending upon yourself and your works to enter into eternal life?

 

[Randy]

My question to you stands:

do you believe that you have attained, and will continue to attain, all of those of yourself since you are apparently depending upon yourself and your works to enter into eternal life?

That question is irrelevant as God gives the HS to those who obey him.
I will state this, "I am not free to sin" and I both love and fear God.

 

[Randy]

What's your point? That your conscience is clear?

His point is that he strived to live in obedience to God. Because its not over when your body dies. There is a resurrection of the righteous to life and the wicked to the 2nd death.