Is believing/faith a work ?

[Hopeful]

Now ask yourself, why would someone hate a Person who was very kind to people who weren't kind to him? Why would anyone of normal human intelligence, want to kill Someone who loved them?

Because they loved sin more than they loved God.

 

[Hopeful]

My question to you stands:

do you believe that you have attained, and will continue to attain, all of those of yourself since you are apparently depending upon yourself and your works to enter into eternal life?

Nobody but me will be judged for my actions.
Thankfully, God supplies everything we need to remain faithful.

 

[rogerg]

Every man who ever believed did so from the state of condemnation.
Their belief led them to their repentance form sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
And still, they have to endure faithfully until their end to be found in the book of life on the last day.

No, it was from their salvation/being born again that belief was given to them as a gift.
no one of themselves can believe in Christ.
No, they are kept by the power of God. The names were written into the
book of life from the foundation of the world. Those, and only those, written in that book,
become saved.

[2Th 2:13 KJV]
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Rev 17:8 KJV]
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
[Rev 20:15 KJV]
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Hopeful]

It is... what does that have to do with anything?

You keep referring to being "saved".
What were you saved from?

No, from/by his encounter with Christ on the road to Damacus - Christ is the Saviour, not Ananias.

Paul wasn't even "in Christ" until he was water baptized into Him. (Rom 6:3)

Was it you or someone else that I went through all of this with few days ago?

I couldn't really say.
The discussions blend together after a while.

 

[rogerg]

Nobody but me will be judged for my actions.

That wasn't my point. My point was if you are going to preach that kind
of gospel, then you should be prepared to share whether you've achieved it
or not. That would only be fair to those who follow your preaching, wouldn't it?

 

[Hopeful]

No, it was from their salvation/being born again that belief was given to them as a gift.
no one of themselves can believe in Christ.
No, they are kept by the power of God. The names were written into the
book of life from the foundation of the world. Those, and only those, written in that book,
become saved.

[2Th 2:13 KJV]
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Rev 17:8 KJV]
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
[Rev 20:15 KJV]
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You have usurped the "trophy" before your "race" began.

 

[Hopeful]

That wasn't my point. My point was if you are going to preach that kind
of gospel, then you should be prepared to share whether you've achieved it
or not. That would only be fair to those who follow your preaching, wouldn't it?

I have "partaken of" it, (if you mean conversion and forgiveness of past sins), thanks to the good grace and all the other tools God supplied.
But there is still the life I have been granted in which to remain righteous.
On the day of judgement my hope is that I will be named in the book of life.

 

[rogerg]

You keep referring to being "saved".
What were you saved from?

The law of sin and death and thereby the judgement of God.

Paul wasn't even "in Christ" until he was water baptized into Him. (Rom 6:3)

No, not water baptism, baptism by the Holy Spirit. Water baptism is symbolic just
as was circumcision.

[1Co 12:13 KJV]
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

[Act 11:16 KJV]
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

 

[rogerg]

You have usurped the "trophy" before your "race" began.

No race for the elect to run. Jesus won the trophy on behalf of those He chose for salvation.
That is why He has the title of Saviour and we don't.

 

[rogerg]

I have "partaken of" it, (if you mean conversion and forgiveness of past sins), thanks to the good grace and all the other tools God supplied.
But there is still the life I have been granted in which to remain righteous.
On the day of judgement my hope is that I will be named in the book of life.

No "tools" to achieve or maintain it are possible. If you have it, it was only as a gift from God.
If your name wasn't written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, it never will be, and if it has, it can't be removed. One of the ways to tell, is if you've come to believe that Christ is the Saviour in all ways.
and that He has thereby provided everything needed for salvation, with nothing remaining for you to do for it but
to fully rest in it.

 

[heartwashed]

No I have not received or believe in the jesus you are talking about !

2Co 5:18, And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19, To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20, Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1, We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2Co 6:2, (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

 

[heartwashed]

Gal 4:5 - 7 clearly speaks of it being of the Holy Spirit, and because it is of the Holy Spirit, it was an adoption of their spirits, not the physical manifestation of adoption -- God places the Spirit into the heart but does not change the body then.
Romans 8:15 confirms this by saying they received the "Spirit of adoption", but NOT PHYSICAL ADOPTION.
Romans 8:23 clearly speaks of a future time/event when physical adoption does occur. We know this
because we are informed in 8:23, that they were WAITING FOR THE ADOPTION (the redemption) of their bodies

[Gal 4:5-7 KJV]
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

[Rom 8:15 KJV] 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

[Rom 8:23 KJV]
23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

The Galatians are said by Paul to have received the adoption as sons:

Gal 4:5, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6, And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7, Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

This is defined as the redemption of the body:

Rom 8:23, And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Granted, this is not yet seen and is still hoped for (Romans 8:24-25).

Hebrews 11:1 tells us that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

 

[heartwashed]

Yes, we are waiting for it; and that is how we receive it (1 John 3:2-3). If we currently have it it is because we are currently waiting for it.

I don't understand that.

Pray for the Holy Spirit's illumination of what you don't understand. Ask, and you shall receive (Matthew 7:7-8).

That's a non-answer. That statement was yours, and from what I can determine, not found in the Bible.
Yet, you will not/cannot explain what it means. Really? How does that work?
Everyone here has a platform to post almost anything they choose to post, but if it doesn't make sense, then it can't lead to the edification of the brethren, which edification, is what God intends for someone claiming to have wisdom to share, and not in-effect just say, "the best of luck to you in figuring it out".

[1Co 14:26 KJV]
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

I will only say that I have given scripture and that if you can't understand something it is because the god of this world has blinded your mind so that you can't understand what is written.

Did you read the reference that I gave (1 John 3:2-3)?

The principle of the statement that I gave is in fact found in the Bible. But apparently you didn't do your homework and didn't look up the reference.

I said that if we have received the redemption of the body, it is because we are currently waiting for it.

Now I will quote the verses in question so that you might be able to seek to understand how they teach what I am saying to you; however your mind may be blinded from understanding it apart from asking the Lord for illumination (2 Corinthians 4:3-4):

1Jo 3:2, Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Here, a hope is spoken of, that when Jesus appears, we shall be like Him.

Next, it is written that whoever has this hope in Him purifies himself even as Jesus is pure.

So, I conclude from this that we purify ourselves in the present moments by placing our hope in (waiting for) a specific purification that is promised in the future.

 

[brightfame52]

2Co 5:18, And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19, To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20, Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1, We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2Co 6:2, (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Lol, I still dont receive the Jesus you believe in. The Jesus I believe in died only and specifically for Gods elect. And His death for them saved them completely ! Do you believe in the same Jesus I do ?

 

[rogerg]

On the day of judgement my hope is that I will be named in the book of life.

After thinking about my prior post where I mentioned the book of life, I
have realized that I didn't state it quite correctly, so wanted to correct it now.
I said that if someone's name isn't already in the book, it never will be.
According to my understanding, that is not the case. What I should have
said is that only those names written into the book from the foundation of the
world will remain in it to the end for the day of judgment.
The names of the others will be entered into it upon birth
and removed upon their death or the end of the world, but only those names whom God has chosen to
salvation, remain from the beginning of the world to unto the end because
they can never die.
Anyway, that represents my understanding of it now.

 

[rogerg]

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Here, a hope is spoken of, that when Jesus appears, we shall be like Him.

Next, it is written that whoever has this hope in Him purifies himself even as Jesus is pure.

So, I conclude from this that we purify ourselves in the present moments by placing our hope in (waiting for) a specific purification that is promised in the future.

Not by placing it, by having it; that is, that hope is given not derived

 

[rogerg]

Did you read the reference that I gave (1 John 3:2-3)?

I have read those verses many times.

I said that if we have received the redemption of the body, it is because we are currently waiting for it.

Nothing you said clarifies the above.
"received" is not "waiting" but the verse says "waiting".
Anyway, if this is all you have, I'm done discussing it.

[Rom 8:23 KJV] 23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Because they loved sin more than they loved God.

That's right!

 

[Hopeful]

No "tools" to achieve or maintain it are possible. If you have it, it was only as a gift from God.

If it is the gift of God, we have the tools.
It is the gift of God.
Without the gift of repentance from sin, I would still be a sinner.
Without the gift of water baptism, I would still be walking in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.
Without prayer and study, I would never grow in grace or knowledge.

If your name wasn't written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, it never will be, and if it has, it can't be removed. One of the ways to tell, is if you've come to believe that Christ is the Saviour in all ways.
and that He has thereby provided everything needed for salvation, with nothing remaining for you to do for it but
to fully rest in it.

Do you think the apostles, or anyone for that matter, can just hideout after their conversion?
Is it truly unnecessary to exhibit the changes made in your life?
Can you continue to lie, kill, steal, and commit adultery and still be in the book of life?

 

[brightfame52]

roger

According to my understanding, that is not the case. What I should have
said is that only those names written into the book from the foundation of the
world will remain in it to the end for the day of judgment.
The names of the others will be entered into it upon birth
and removed upon their death or the end of the world, but only those names whom God has chosen to
salvation, remain from the beginning of the world to unto the end because
they can never die.

I right now see this a little different. Everyone whose to be saved had their names written in the lambs book of life, which i believe is equivalent to their election in Christ before the foundation, and of course their names can never be blotted out, since its all of grace, the election of grace, unmerited.

I also believe the lambs book of life symbolizes all the members of Christs mystical body hinted at here Ps 139:14-16
14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

So again, not one member of His Blessed Body will be blotted out that member book

None of the non elect names were ever in that book, hence Jesus will say to them Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I believe there may be another book, the book of providence, wherein all the names of the living is written in, and perhaps at the end of their physical lives, their name is taken out.

David may have alluded to it here Ps 69:28


Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

The book of the Living. Written with the righteous I believe goes back to the lambs book of life.

Just my thoughts, of course its a vast subject and i may not understand it all until in that perfect day !