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Is believing/faith a work ?

Randy said:
That question is irrelevant as God gives the HS to those who obey him.
I will state this, "I am not free to sin" and I both love and fear God.
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Really? Why no answer? You have determined a supposed standard
by which someone achieves eternal life. Yet, you refuse to state
whether you have achieved that standard or not? If you have,
then why be hesitant to say so? If you haven't then why would you preach a standard
that you have not been able to attain?
26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
 
rogerg said:
Really? Why no answer? You have determined a supposed standard
by which someone achieves eternal life. Yet, you refuse to state
whether you have achieved that standard or not? If you have,
then why be hesitant to say so? If you haven't then why would you preach a standard
that you have not been able to attain?
26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
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But according to you one must be pre determined in the book of life or its NOT POSSIBLE.

I have the Spirit of Christ in me and I live accordingly. That Spirit helps us to overcome the world.
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live
 
Randy said:
His point is that he strived to live in obedience to God. Because its not over when your body dies. There is a resurrection of the righteous to life and the wicked to the 2nd death.
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No, I don't think that was his point since just a striving to live in obedience is insufficient where law is concerned.
Law is binary, intentions don't count, either one achieves it, or they don't, period. There is no middle ground.
If one is going to preach that standard for others, then they should have either achieved if for themselves, or at least,
let those they preach it to know that they haven't.

The second death are for the unsaved. Being saved is a gift that no one of themselves can achieve:

26
But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

[Gal 3:10 KJV]
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

[Rev 20:12, 14-15 KJV]
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. ...
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
Randy said:
I have the Spirit of Christ in me and I live accordingly. That Spirit helps us to overcome the world.
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live
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Well then, have you overcome it or not?
 
rogerg said:
No. You compare unlike verses.
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Scripture interprets scripture. Romans 8:23 defines the adoption as the redemption of the body; and Galatians 4:5-7 tells us that the Galatians already had the adoption and were sons.

rogerg said:
I don't understand that.
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Pray for the Holy Spirit's illumination of what you don't understand. Ask, and you shall receive (Matthew 7:7-8).

brightfame52 said:
So exactly whose sins are we talking about that he died for, be specific ? Also what was the outcome of the death, what success did it have Please be specific ?
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"our" sins (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
 
heartwashed said:
Scripture interprets scripture. Romans 8:23 defines the adoption as the redemption of the body; and Galatians 4:5-7 tells us that the Galatians already had the adoption and were sons.



Pray for the Holy Spirit's illumination of what you don't understand. Ask, and you shall receive (Matthew 7:7-8).


"our" sins (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
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Why are you scared to be specific ? Who is the our sins ? Is it everyone in the world without exception, or is it limited to the church. Gods chosen ?
 
heartwashed said:
Scripture interprets scripture. Romans 8:23 defines the adoption as the redemption of the body; and Galatians 4:5-7 tells us that the Galatians already had the adoption and were sons.
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Gal 4:5 - 7 clearly speaks of it being of the Holy Spirit, and because it is of the Holy Spirit, it was an adoption of their spirits, not the physical manifestation of adoption -- God places the Spirit into the heart but does not change the body then.
Romans 8:15 confirms this by saying they received the "Spirit of adoption", but NOT PHYSICAL ADOPTION.
Romans 8:23 clearly speaks of a future time/event when physical adoption does occur. We know this
because we are informed in 8:23, that they were WAITING FOR THE ADOPTION (the redemption) of their bodies

[Gal 4:5-7 KJV]
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

[Rom 8:15 KJV] 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

[Rom 8:23 KJV]
23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

heartwashed said:
Pray for the Holy Spirit's illumination of what you don't understand. Ask, and you shall receive (Matthew 7:7-8).
Click to expand...

That's a non-answer. That statement was yours, and from what I can determine, not found in the Bible.
Yet, you will not/cannot explain what it means. Really? How does that work?
Everyone here has a platform to post almost anything they choose to post, but if it doesn't make sense, then it can't lead to the edification of the brethren, which edification, is what God intends for someone claiming to have wisdom to share, and not in-effect just say, "the best of luck to you in figuring it out".

[1Co 14:26 KJV]
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
 
rogerg said:
Gal 4:5 - 7 clearly speaks of it being of the Holy Spirit, and because it is of the Holy Spirit, it was an adoption of their spirits, not the physical manifestation of adoption -- God places the Spirit into the heart but does not change the body then.
Romans 8:15 confirms this by saying they received the "Spirit of adoption", but NOT PHYSICAL ADOPTION.
Romans 8:23 clearly speaks of a future time/event when physical adoption does occur. We know this
because we are informed in 8:23, that they were WAITING FOR THE ADOPTION (the redemption) of their bodies

[Gal 4:5-7 KJV]
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

[Rom 8:15 KJV] 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

[Rom 8:23 KJV]
23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.



That's a non-answer. That statement was yours, and from what I can determine, not found in the Bible.
Yet, you will not/cannot explain what it means. Really? How does that work?
Everyone here has a platform to post almost anything they choose to post, but if it doesn't make sense, then it can't lead to the edification of the brethren, which edification, is what God intends for someone claiming to have wisdom to share, and not in-effect just say, "the best of luck to you in figuring it out".

[1Co 14:26 KJV]
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
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Those who Christ died for, and redeemed, God sends the Holy Spirit in their hearts, which regenerates them and gives them Faith in their redeemer Gal 3:13-24

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

See redemption means we belonged to the Spiritual seed of Abraham, and consequently we are given Faith to make it manifest.

Gal 3:7

. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

The Holy Spirit and Faith are Gifts of redemption through Christ !
 
Randy said:
In process.
But like the Lord Himself I still have my own will to choose who I will follow.
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Well actually, no, you don't have that freedom of will, but that notwithstanding,
based upon the stipulations of your belief, you cannot then be assured that you've truly satisfied all of its requirements until judgment day comes at end of time - one misstep and you've failed, and for an eternity you will
suffer the consequences. Add to that, that you may not even know you've failed until then. Now, you may
even think that you've been successful, but that assessment would solely be one that is of/ from/by man with all of his attendant frailties and misperceptions, and not one of a completely knowledgeable/objective/unbiased/perfect, ultimately powerful, judge who will assess you perfectly.
Look, I'm not trying to give you a hard time with these posts, but I am trying to
reason with you to show you the predicament and precariousness of your position,
and hoping you'll recognize (God willing) that, logically speaking, there is absolutely no other
alternative to Christ as Saviour, and that He is the Saviour completely, in all possible
ways with nothing remaining for us to do for salvation. So, what I'm trying to make clear,
is that salvation cannot be found outside of Christ, nor in any of our works.
To finish, just because we are given faith in Christ as Saviour, doesn't mean that we shouldn't follow the law
where appropriate as a standard of behavior, especially where morality is concerned, and in other associated areas,
but not to place our trust in the doing or achieving of it to justify ourselves before God, or to bring us salvation.

[2Ti 1:9 KJV] 9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 
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rogerg said:
Well actually, no, you don't have that freedom of will, but that notwithstanding,
based upon the stipulations of your belief, you cannot then be assured that you've truly satisfied all of its requirements until judgment day comes at end of time - one misstep and you've failed, and for an eternity you will
suffer the consequences. Add to that, that you may not even know you've failed until then. Now, you may
even think that you've been successful, but that assessment would solely be one that is of/ from/by man with all of his attendant frailties and misperceptions, and not one of a completely knowledgeable/objective/unbiased/perfect, ultimately powerful, judge who will assess you perfectly.
Look, I'm not trying to give you a hard time with these posts, but I am trying to
reason with you to show you the predicament and precariousness of your position,
and hoping you'll recognize (God willing) that, logically speaking, there is absolutely no other
alternative to Christ as Saviour, and that He is the Saviour completely, in all possible
ways with nothing remaining for us to do for salvation. So, what I'm trying to make clear,
is that salvation cannot be found outside of Christ, nor in any of our works.
To finish, just because we are given faith in Christ as Saviour, doesn't mean that we shouldn't follow the law
where appropriate as a standard of behavior, especially where morality is concerned, and in other associated areas,
but not to place our trust in the doing or achieving of it to justify ourselves before God, or to bring us salvation.

[2Ti 1:9 KJV] 9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Click to expand...
I do have my own will. I submit to Christs will just as Christ submitted to His Fathers will. I have the Spirit of Christ in me and I do know with certainty I am a child of God. I am sanctified by that Spirit in me not by any works. I remain faithful to Christ by obeying His commands. So just as He remains in me I remain in Him.
 
rogerg said:
Paul was saved on the road to Damascus.
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Really?
I thought the day of judgement was going to be on the last day?
rogerg said:
What happened to him afterwards
was the result of that and of God's specific will for him. Those
whom God has chosen to salvation, will hear the gospel and respond to it. All Christian
attributes the saved exhibit, are because of having been saved, not the
cause salvation.
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He wasn't even converted until he obeyed Ananias.
 
rogerg said:
To believe is only as a gift from God. It is not possible for unsaved man to believe the true gospel
until and unless first becoming saved by God

[1Co 2:14 KJV]
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
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Every man who ever believed did so from the state of condemnation.
Their belief led them to their repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
And still, they have to endure faithfully until their end to be found in the book of life on the last day.
 
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