Is believing/faith a work ?

[rogerg]

Do you think the apostles, or anyone for that matter, can just hideout after their conversion?
Is it truly unnecessary to exhibit the changes made in your life?
Can you continue to lie, kill, steal, and commit adultery and still be in the book of life?

No, nor would they have wanted to "hideout", nor is that what I'm saying.... but that wasn't the point.
The point is of what is needed FROM its recipient FOR salvation. The answer is
nothing. After salvation, those saved are to share the gospel, which they desire
to do as a byproduct OF salvation, but that nevertheless has nothing to do with their becoming saved.
Becoming saved is a gift in its totality, and the Saviour is Jesus Christ alone.
We can contribute nothing to it.
Do you think that should a saved person kill someone, commit adultery, ETC, they would lose
their salvation or would Christ's sacrifice still cover it?

 

[rogerg]

If it is the gift of God, we have the tools.

So, you're saying that God drops the tools off, but then it becomes up to the person
for their salvation?

 

[Hopeful]

No, nor would they have wanted to "hideout", nor is that what I'm saying.... but that wasn't the point.
The point is of what is needed FROM its recipient FOR salvation. The answer is
nothing. After salvation, those saved are to share the gospel, which they desire
to do as a byproduct OF salvation, but that nevertheless has nothing to do with their becoming saved.
Becoming saved is a gift in its totality, and the Saviour is Jesus Christ alone.
We can contribute nothing to it.
Do you think that should a saved person kill someone, commit adultery, ETC, they would lose
their salvation or would Christ's sacrifice still cover it?

You won't be saved if you continue to commit sin.
Ergo, we must cease from sinning.
It is our choice of which to do at our conversion.
It is something we must do, in order to be saved.

 

[Hopeful]

So, you're saying that God drops the tools off, but then it becomes up to the person
for their salvation?

Who else but you will be judged for your deeds on the last day?
Your deeds, your choices aimed at your desires.
Do you desire to show God you love Him?
Or do you choose to serve the allegedly dead flesh?
Will any liars receive eternal life?
No.

 

[rogerg]

ou won't be saved if you continue to commit sin.
Ergo, we must cease from sinning.
It is our choice of which to do at our conversion.
It is something we must do, in order to be saved.

Really? Not that I would suggest that anyone sin in any form, but
have you read about King David? Do you think he was saved
after the killing of Uriah, or of committing adultery with Bathsheba,
or of his killing of the tens of thousands?
What you seem unable to perceive is that salvation is solely by what Christ has achieved and is not based
upon our righteousness or good deeds at all nor based upon ANTTHING we have done or might do.
When He gives it as a gift, He becomes the righteousness, it is no longer of us.

 

[rogerg]

Who else but you will be judged for your deeds on the last day?
Your deeds, your choices aimed at your desires.
Do you desire to show God you love Him?
Or do you choose to serve the allegedly dead flesh?
Will any liars receive eternal life?
No.

Christ alone is the Saviour, we are not

 

[heartwashed]

Lol, I still dont receive the Jesus you believe in. The Jesus I believe in died only and specifically for Gods elect. And His death for them saved them completely ! Do you believe in the same Jesus I do ?

The Jesus I believe in died for "our" sins according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

That is the biblical Jesus.

 

[Hopeful]

Really? Not that I would suggest that anyone sin in any form, but
have you read about King David?

Yes, I have read about king David.

Do you think he was saved

Only God can determine if David followed all the Mosaic Laws concerning atonement for his sins.

after the killing of Uriah, or of committing adultery with Bathsheba,
or of his killing of the tens of thousands?

OT men were not able to walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh, like NT men can.
But they will all face God on the day of judgement.

What you seem unable to perceive is that salvation is solely by what Christ has achieved and is not based
upon our righteousness or good deeds at all nor based upon ANTTHING we have done or might do.
When He gives it as a gift, He becomes the righteousness, it is no longer of us.

Your salvation will be based on your obedience.
Will you obey God or will you usurp His final judgement and claim your salvation now?

 

[Hopeful]

Christ alone is the Saviour, we are not

He sure is, and I thank God for His taking my past sins upon Himself.
I love Him now to the point of complete obedience.
I thank God for making that possible.

 

[heartwashed]

Your salvation will be based on your obedience.

No; for obedience is works.

And we are not saved by works (Titus 3:5, Romans 4:5-6, Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9).

We are not saved by our obedience;

We are saved unto obedience.

 

[Hopeful]

No; for obedience is works.

The devil loves that.
You have just made it ungodly to love God.

And we are not saved by works (Titus 3:5, Romans 4:5-6, Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9).

I know, the works of the Law profit no man.

We are not saved by our obedience;

We can be damned for our disobedience.
We will be judged faithful on the last day for our obedience.

We are saved unto obedience.

That phrase isn't in my bible.

Will liars go to heaven?
No?
Then we MUST tell the truth.
Thankfully, God made it possible to crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts, (Gal 5:24), so we can tell the truth always.

 

[heartwashed]

The devil loves that.
You have just made it ungodly to love God.

I know, the works of the Law profit no man.

We can be damned for our disobedience.
We will be judged faithful on the last day for our obedience.

That phrase isn't in my bible.

Will liars go to heaven?
No?
Then we MUST tell the truth.
Thankfully, God made it possible to crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts, (Gal 5:24), so we can tell the truth always.

Friend, we cannot be saved through law-keeping, works, or personal merit (see Romans 3:20, Galatians 2:16).

If you are trying to enter into the kingdom that way, you must keep the law perfectly from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10).

We tell the truth once we have been saved by grace through faith; we are regenerated and renewed on the inside so that we abhor lying.

But those who are not born again, their inclination is to love a lie. No amount of truth-telling will save them therefore because in their heart they are inclined towards loving and making a lie.

Outward obedience does not produce an inward change.

However, an inward change does produce outward obedience.

See Matthew 23:25-28, Philippians 3:9.

 

[heartwashed]

That phrase isn't in my bible.

The principle can be found in Ephesians 2:8-10.

 

[brightfame52]

The Jesus I believe in died for "our" sins according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

That is the biblical Jesus.

. The Jesus I believe in died only and specifically for Gods elect. And His death for them saved them completely ! Do you believe in the same Jesus I do ?

 

[Randy]

. The Jesus I believe in died only and specifically for Gods elect. And His death for them saved them completely ! Do you believe in the same Jesus I do ?

Our Jesus covers at "least" what you believe and the possibility of more. Do you find such mercy that offensive?

 

[rogerg]

He sure is, and I thank God for His taking my past sins upon Himself.
I love Him now to the point of complete obedience.
I thank God for making that possible.

Past sins? What about the current and future? How
do you believe those are remitted? What does "complete obedience" mean?

 

[rogerg]

You won't be saved if you continue to commit sin.
Ergo, we must cease from sinning.
It is our choice of which to do at our conversion.
It is something we must do, in order to be saved.

So, you're saying that the Bible should be changed to remove the verses with "eternal life"?

[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[heartwashed]

. The Jesus I believe in died only and specifically for Gods elect. And His death for them saved them completely ! Do you believe in the same Jesus I do ?

Jesus died for "our" sins according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Therefore if you can read that passage, you are included in the category of those identified as "our" or "us".

I believe that if anyone receives Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, God is not going to reject them over some pretext that they never belonged to Him.

See John 6:37. "If anyone comes to me I will in no wise cast him out."

 

[Randy]

No race for the elect to run. Jesus won the trophy on behalf of those He chose for salvation.
That is why He has the title of Saviour and we don't.

He didn't see it that way.

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

 

[Randy]

So, you're saying that God drops the tools off, but then it becomes up to the person
for their salvation?

Yes, God knocks, the Spirit teaches, we open the door and receive the Lord who is our savior.

Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.