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Is believing/faith a work ?

brightfame52 said:
You reject salvation by grace and promote it by works, which is contrary to the scripture.
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I can't do the works without the grace.
Without God's love/grace, I would never have heard of or been allowed to repent of sin, or be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Without God's grace/love, I would still be walking in darkness.

Again, the works Paul wrote against were the works of the Law.
It is written..."Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal 2:16)
"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal 3:2)
"He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal 3:5)
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." (Gal 3:10)

Paul's fight was with those who advocated circumcision and Law keeping for salvation, and he, with the council in Jerusalem, prescribed exactly how much of the Law pertained to Gentiles..."But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." (Acts 15:20)
 
Hopeful said:
I can't do the works without the grace.
Without God's love/grace, I would never have heard of or been allowed to repent of sin, or be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Without God's grace/love, I would still be walking in darkness.

Again, the works Paul wrote against were the works of the Law.
It is written..."Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal 2:16)
"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal 3:2)
"He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal 3:5)
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." (Gal 3:10)

Paul's fight was with those who advocated circumcision and Law keeping for salvation, and he, with the council in Jerusalem, prescribed exactly how much of the Law pertained to Gentiles..."But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." (Acts 15:20)
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You mix grace and works, that equals works. Thats Pauls point in Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Sorry you cant have it both ways, you either saved by works or Grace !
 
Hopeful said:
They sure do.
And I am grateful to God for the grace and knowledge to accomplish those works.
And I am also grateful that the works of the Mosaic covenant are not necessary anymore.
Faith is all about works of love.
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That's a pretty big point you made.
Faith is the substance of things unseen and so us believers must shine the light of God through us so that the world can see the evidence of God. Sounds complicated but it's not. We do it by blessing others, walking in love and good works toward all mankind. You can easily say good works. And Brother, it aint hard to find people who need help on this planet.

Having the heart of God is having a heart for good works.
 
brightfame52 said:
You mix grace and works, that equals works. Thats Pauls point in Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Sorry you cant have it both ways, you either saved by works or Grace !
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The "works" Paul references are the works of the Mosaic covenant.
They are not sufficient for salvation.
Hearing and believing, repenting of sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, loving God with all our strength, loving our neighbor as ourself, and enduring faithfully till the end are necessary acts for salvation.
Without them, one is still a sinner with all their past sins remaining on an empty corpse.
Hardly fit for the residency of the Holy Ghost.
 
Edward said:
That's a pretty big point you made.
Faith is the substance of things unseen and so us believers must shine the light of God through us so that the world can see the evidence of God. Sounds complicated but it's not. We do it by blessing others, walking in love and good works toward all mankind. You can easily say good works. And Brother, it aint hard to find people who need help on this planet.

Having the heart of God is having a heart for good works.
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Amen to that.
Without "doing" it...there is no salvation.
 
Hopeful said:
The "works" Paul references are the works of the Mosaic covenant.
They are not sufficient for salvation.
Hearing and believing, repenting of sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, loving God with all our strength, loving our neighbor as ourself, and enduring faithfully till the end are necessary acts for salvation.
Without them, one is still a sinner with all their past sins remaining on an empty corpse.
Hardly fit for the residency of the Holy Ghost.
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Its any work, condition that constitutes a work.
 
First and foremost to be Justified by Faith and it not be our work, it must be the subjective faith of Christ in His Suretyship obedience and faithfulness unto will of God for us that Justifies us before God, otherwise, justified by our own faith is nothing but being justified by our works, something done by us, which is flat out contrary to justification by grace.
 
Hopeful said:
Our opinions differ.
How does your doctrine accomplish the remission of sins?
How does your doctrine accomplish the circumcision of the heart?
How does it accomplish the death of the "old man"?
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It does differ, you believe in salvation by works, by what a sinner does, which is the enemy to Salvation by Grace through what Christ has done to save His People.
 
Hopeful said:
How does your doctrine accomplish the remission of sins?
How does your doctrine accomplish the circumcision of the heart?
How does it accomplish the death of the "old man"?
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Christ perfectly achieved everything needed for salvation on the behalf of those He came to save and imputed it freely to them as a gift through grace. And as a gift, it can neither be earned nor purchased no matter how little or much a person attempts to - In fact, any attempt is in itself sin. His title is Saviour.
All true Christian attributes which a Christian may exhibit (to include the ones you mentioned above,) are from the fruit of the Spirit who is given upon becoming born-again. They continue growing in these attributes over the course of their lifetimes.
 
Hopeful said:
Our opinions differ.
How does your doctrine accomplish the remission of sins?
How does your doctrine accomplish the circumcision of the heart?
How does it accomplish the death of the "old man"?
Click to expand...

How does their doctrine accomplish being an overcomer? (Rev 2:26, 3:21, 21:7, 1 John 5:4-5)
How does their doctrine accomplish making our Garments white? (Ecclesiastes 9:8)
How does their doctrine accomplish enduring to the end? (Matthew 24:13-15)
 
DancesWithGnostics said:
Jhn 6:28
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jhn 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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If I remember right, faith is an act of our spirit and belief is an act of our flesh, i.e., walking in it. And we have to do both. We're here for the count.

Even Jesus got restricted from doing many miracles because of their unbelief (Matt 13;58). So, Lord help our unbelief.

It's not enough to accept it on a intellectual level in other words. The belief comes with acting on it in the flesh. In essence, to be a doer and not just a reader. So in a way, it can be construed as a work, but on the other hand, show me your faith apart from works and I shall show you my faith through my works. ;)

Tidy's that up nicely hey? :lol
 
I've seen signs and wonders...
"And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.” - Mark 9:23
"Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." - John 14:12
I want to see more! I believe it to be an act of faith and obedience.
Lord, we need more of You...so this unbelieving generation will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that You are who You say You are, will see that they are sinners, will come to You and be saved! Amen!
 
brightfame52 said:
First and foremost to be Justified by Faith and it not be our work, it must be the subjective faith of Christ in His Suretyship obedience and faithfulness unto will of God for us that Justifies us before God, otherwise, justified by our own faith is nothing but being justified by our works, something done by us, which is flat out contrary to justification by grace.
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So everybody is, or will be, saved at the final judgement?
If it is the faith Christ has in...whatever, that saves folks, all men will be saved.

I just don't see that happening.
 
brightfame52 said:
It does differ, you believe in salvation by works, by what a sinner does, which is the enemy to Salvation by Grace through what Christ has done to save His People.
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God supplies salvation through Jesus Christ.
It isn't just thrown onto us whether we believe or not.
Believing is an act we must do...to be saved.
 
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