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Is believing/faith a work ?

rogerg said:
Yes, I believe that true Christians are not included in the word "all" as used in that verse.
The "somehow" is by, and through, Christ
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So in your mind Christians can lie and be exempt from the warning given by the Lord which says...

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”


So who do you believe the book of Revelation was written to?
 
rogerg said:
Yes, I believe that true Christians are not included in the word "all" as used in that verse.
The "somehow" is by, and through, Christ
Click to expand...
Correct all the lies true believers have spoken, are speaking, or will speak, have been blotted out by Christ, and they aren't charged to them. Rom 4:8
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

In fact all their sins were blotted out by Christ before they became believers, and is why they were given the Gift of faith to become believers.
 
JLB said:
So in your mind Christians can lie and be exempt from the warning given by the Lord which says...

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Click to expand...

Yes. All lie.

[Heb 7:25 KJV] 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
 
brightfame52 said:
Correct all the lies true believers have spoken, are speaking, or will speak, have been blotted out by Christ, and they aren't charged to them. Rom 4:8
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

In fact all their sins were blotted out by Christ before they became believers, and is why they were given the Gift of faith to become believers.
Click to expand...

Please explain how someone becomes a "true believer" before they believe; have believing faith


I wonder if Jethro Bodine understands this mystery.
 
JLB said:
Please explain how someone becomes a "true believer" before they believe; have believing faith
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It is given as a gift by God to those He saves through the Holy Spirit. It is not of a person's doing.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

It is result, not cause.
 
rogerg said:
It is given as a gift by God to those He saves through the Holy Spirit. It is not of a person's doing.
Click to expand...

How does one become a "true believer" before he ever believes?

We are called "believers" BECAUSE we believe.

If somehow hasn't believed how can they be considered a "true believer" since they haven't believed yet?



JLB
 
JLB said:
How does one become a "true believer" before he ever believes?

We are called "believers" BECAUSE we believe.

If somehow hasn't believed how can they be considered a "true believer" since they haven't believed yet?
Click to expand...

Either you didn't understand what I just posted, or I don't understand your question.
Faith is given as a gift to those whom God has chosen upon becoming born-again
 
rogerg said:
I don't follow your point. Those of the elect will not harden their hearts. They will
read, perceive and follow all biblical admonitions including that one - no one immediately after
becoming born-again wakes up knowing all doctrine, and admonitions until
being exposed to them in the Bible. However, they conform and follow them, realizing
the doing of them is a byproduct (or from) of salvation, not unto salvation, and that is the important part.
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Now I understand why you think that those who don’t believe as you do are not real Christians. You have a standard by which you measure others which has no tolerance it seems.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Now I understand why you think that those who don’t believe as you do are not real Christians. You have a standard by which you measure others which has no tolerance it seems.
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This isn't complicated. To be a Christian, one has to.... well.... truly believe in Christ as Saviour. That's about it.
 
rogerg said:
This isn't complicated. To be a Christian, one has to.... well.... truly believe in Christ as Saviour. That's about it.
Click to expand...
No, Roger, you added a whole lot more baggage. You need to read your post for the requirements you have set up. It’s much more than one sentence.
 
rogerg said:
Which post do you have in mind?
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rogerg said:
I don't follow your point.
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Your requirement:
rogerg said:
1) Those of the elect will not harden their hearts.
2) They will read, perceive and follow all biblical admonitions including that one - (3 in one)
6)no one immediately after
becoming born-again wakes up knowing all doctrine, and admonitions until
being exposed to them in the Bible. However, they conform and follow them, realizing
the doing of them is a byproduct (or from) of salvation, not unto salvation, and that is the important part.
Click to expand...
There’s a catch, of course, a byproduct of the above isn’t automatic as it’s too painful to the flesh to happen by chance. So defining it as merely “a byproduct” means it’s optional. And since it’s optional, there’s no real reason to curb the flesh.

For those following, the calvinist has a problem. They don’t really want obeying the teachings of Jesus to be either required or an optional extra. They will tell you you’d better, but if you ask why, they don’t know within the teaching of their faith.

Worse, As obeying is often indeed looked at as a work, and their theology REQUIRES rejecting works or you don’t truly believe, they are left with no compelling reason to obey Jesus and a good reason not to do so.

So what will calvinists teach? They’ll use words with no power. “You’d better but only if you realize it’s not required.” What will you lose if you don’t? They have no idea. But if you obey thinking it’s required, you were never saved (lost salvation.)
 
Dorothy Mae said:
There’s a catch, of course, a byproduct of the above isn’t automatic as it’s too painful to the flesh to happen by chance. So defining it as merely “a byproduct” means it’s optional. And since it’s optional, there’s no real reason to curb the flesh.

For those following, the calvinist has a problem. They don’t really want obeying the teachings of Jesus to be either required or an optional extra. They will tell you you’d better, but if you ask why, they don’t know within the teaching of their faith.

Worse, As obeying is often indeed looked at as a work, and their theology REQUIRES rejecting works or you don’t truly believe, they are left with no compelling reason to obey Jesus. So what will calvinists teach? They’ll use words with no power. “You’d better but only if you realize it’s not required.” What will you lose if you don’t? They have no idea. But if you obey thinking it’s required, you were never saved (lost salvation.)
Click to expand...

So, you're saying you don't believe that Christ is the Saviour? Which means, you're not a Christian? Really?
You can't have it both ways: He either is the Saviour, in which case He saves completely - to
the uttermost, or, He is not, in which case we must save ourselves completely to the uttermost.
By your post, I can see that you perceive your role is of judge, jury and executioner but
be careful that you don't end up convicting yourself.

[Heb 10:29 KJV]
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

[Heb 7:25 KJV]
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
 
Folk we are not going to get into discussions here about who is a believer and who is not. Im asking to please get back to the subject matter, and if we disagree, so be it. Dont blame one another from taking or adding from the word, we all have our views shaped by our understanding of the word. I will be deleting posts that get controversial and stray to far off the subject of the thread. Thanks
 
brightfame52 said:
Please Show us where I or anyone else stated that someone becomes a true believer before they believe. The onus is on you.
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Brightfame said --

Correct all the lies true believers have spoken, are speaking, or will speak, have been blotted out by Christ, and they aren't charged to them. Rom 4:8
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

In fact all their sins were blotted out by Christ before they became believers, and is why they were given the Gift of faith to become believers.

Only those who believe are forgiven their sins.

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Romans 4:5-7

Only those who believe are saved.


JLB
 
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