Is believing/faith a work ?

[PeterJens]

Must we believe to be saved? Yes.
Our salvation works on the seed of Gods word bearing fruit and change in our lives.
Eternity is not the passive agreement of people or forced conversion in ones mind but not ones life.

The cross is such a victory because God chose to walk a life of love and die because of its betrayal, to rise again victorious so that we might know in His this walk is possible. Those who deny the need for the walk do not know Jesus, because the whole of the bible is about the walk and those who have listened and followed. It distinguishes between failure and struggle from rebellion and evil. The whole point of the temple was we will always struggle, have failure, and need to learn and change, through effort, dedication and conviction.

Paul uses the term "perfecting"
1 Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1

9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.
2 Cor 9

8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered
9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 5:8-10

How could Jesus be made perfect, when he already was perfect? Because the action of the cross and its sacrifice was the fruit of His heart and love, a demonstration in action of what God is eternally.

Equally our calling needs to be make perfect through our actions, the reflection of the reality within.
It is not in a sense arriving anywhere, heaven is always a road to walk with Jesus. It is why when people say they can lose their salvation, like it is a future thing, walking away from Jesus is rejecting heaven in the here and now.

We live under the delusion heaven and its realities will be so different than the realities we live today. We see and dismiss too easily the eternal realities we face each and every day. Heaven has come to earth in our walk with Jesus. Its preciousness is Gods grace at work. Reject this and there is nothing else.

God bless you all

 

[brightfame52]

peterj

Must we believe to be saved? Yes.

Agreed, yet thats much different from one must believe to get saved.

When one believes to be saved, its believing because they were already saved, but believing makes it experiential.

If we say or mean one must believe to get saved, that makes it a condition one must meet before God saves them. Thats salvation by works.

The cross is such a victory because God chose to walk a life of love and die because of its betrayal, to rise again victorious so that we might know in His this walk is possible

This is false, Christ by His Obedience unto the death of the Cross actually made them He did it for, the many, righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered
9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 5:8-10

How could Jesus be made perfect, when he already was perfect? Because the action of the cross and its sacrifice was the fruit of His heart and love, a demonstration in action of what God is eternally.

Christs obedience secured the obedience of those He lived and died for. His obedience effected/authored their obeying Him, which is obeying or believing His Gospel. Its impossible for anyone Christ lived and died for, not coming to faith in Christ, since His obedience secured unto them the new birth by the Spirit. Acts 5:31=32

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

How could Jesus be made perfect, when he already was perfect? Because the action of the cross and its sacrifice was the fruit of His heart and love, a demonstration in action of what God is eternally.

Equally our calling needs to be make perfect through our actions, the reflection of the reality within.
It is not in a sense arriving anywhere, heaven is always a road to walk with Jesus. It is why when people say they can lose their salvation, like it is a future thing, walking away from Jesus is rejecting heaven in the here and now.

We live under the delusion heaven and its realities will be so different than the realities we live today. We see and dismiss too easily the eternal realities we face each and every day. Heaven has come to earth in our walk with Jesus. Its preciousness is Gods grace at work. Reject this and there is nothing else.

No disrespect friend, but you seem to place a higher premium on mans doings and obeying, over and above Christs doing and obeying and what that savingly accomplished. Any spiritual obedience from a dead sinner is only the fruit and effect of Christs obedience, suffering and death, and rising again.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Im not speaking about you, but what scripture says. Its not wise to judge scripture truth by the experiences of men. Yet its wise to judge scripture by what scripture says. The word of salvation is sent to people who fears God, which means they are regenerated, because men by nature we have no fear of God, not the True God Rom 3:18

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

But Gods word of salvation is sent to the ones that fear God of any nation Acts 13:26

26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

Acts 10:34-35

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

The Gospel of Salvation is sent to them that fear God and who have been accepted with Him.

So not interested in how you were saved, nor anyone else if the testimony doesn't line up with the truth, even myself, if my testimony and experience doesn't line up with truth, its garbage and need to be repented of !

It seems Calvanists believe they have no desire of their own to know our Lord.

 

[PeterJens]

peterj



Agreed, yet thats much different from one must believe to get saved.

When one believes to be saved, its believing because they were already saved, but believing makes it experiential.

If we say or mean one must believe to get saved, that makes it a condition one must meet before God saves them. Thats salvation by works.



This is false, Christ by His Obedience unto the death of the Cross actually made them He did it for, the many, righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.



Christs obedience secured the obedience of those He lived and died for. His obedience effected/authored their obeying Him, which is obeying or believing His Gospel. Its impossible for anyone Christ lived and died for, not coming to faith in Christ, since His obedience secured unto them the new birth by the Spirit. Acts 5:31=32

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


No disrespect friend, but you seem to place a higher premium on mans doings and obeying, over and above Christs doing and obeying and what that savingly accomplished. Any spiritual obedience from a dead sinner is only the fruit and effect of Christs obedience, suffering and death, and rising again.

"No disrespect friend, but you seem to place a higher premium on mans doings and obeying"

Its an interesting way you have of expressing faith. Living beings are not so analytical or weighing one thing against another. After Peter betrayed Jesus by denying knowledge of Him, what did He ask Peter?

Do you love me?
This was after Jesus had risen again.

My question was not on emphasis of one aspect over another but how Jesus transforms us from the heart outwards.
As you did not answer this point, clearly it is not something that is important to you.


Jesus's criticism of the pharisees was there lack of love and mercy. He said simply they did not listen to Him because they did not love God. If they had loved God and love was driving their lives, His words would have echoed the reality in their hearts.

God bless you

 

[journeymanisnothing]

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” Mt.4:17

 

[rogerg]

From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” Mt.4:17

[Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

 

[PeterJens]

peterj



Agreed, yet thats much different from one must believe to get saved.

When one believes to be saved, its believing because they were already saved, but believing makes it experiential.

If we say or mean one must believe to get saved, that makes it a condition one must meet before God saves them. Thats salvation by works.



This is false, Christ by His Obedience unto the death of the Cross actually made them He did it for, the many, righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.



Christs obedience secured the obedience of those He lived and died for. His obedience effected/authored their obeying Him, which is obeying or believing His Gospel. Its impossible for anyone Christ lived and died for, not coming to faith in Christ, since His obedience secured unto them the new birth by the Spirit. Acts 5:31=32

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


No disrespect friend, but you seem to place a higher premium on mans doings and obeying, over and above Christs doing and obeying and what that savingly accomplished. Any spiritual obedience from a dead sinner is only the fruit and effect of Christs obedience, suffering and death, and rising again.

My fear for everyone who says "I know Jesus" is what does this mean to their heart?
Believing the right things, being part of the right group, fitting in can become more important than who they actually are. This is not restricted to any group or position, it is about how well we know ourselves, our emotional balances and our foundations.

Jesus talked about meeting followers at judgement day. He criticised one group for not helping Him while on earth and the others for helping Him. The difference was love extended to those in need. It has never been about proving or earning praise, it is about loving people and knowing what they are going through and feeling for them.

Maybe the internet and the types of people who type on forums already selects for those more introverted and less able to reach out to others. But for anyone, when Jesus reached out to us and answered our prayers and needs, so should we reach out to others with His light and love, which is what I am doing here.

God bless you

 

[brightfame52]

peter

"No disrespect friend, but you seem to place a higher premium on mans doings and obeying"

Yes Peter going by the things you post it seems that way.

Its an interesting way you have of expressing faith. Living beings are not so analytical or weighing one thing against another. After Peter betrayed Jesus by denying knowledge of Him, what did He ask Peter?

Do you love me?
This was after Jesus had risen again.

My question was not on emphasis of one aspect over another but how Jesus transforms us from the heart outwards.
As you did not answer this point, clearly it is not something that is important to you.


Jesus's criticism of the pharisees was there lack of love and mercy. He said simply they did not listen to Him because they did not love God. If they had loved God and love was driving their lives, His words would have echoed the reality in their hearts.

Again, as now, your conversation is all about man and what he does or dont do. Its all about works, mans behavior. Do you ever think about Christ and the works He did, and what they accomplished, and for who , and why ?

Read the OP again if you please and understand the point Im making.

 

[brightfame52]

My fear for everyone who says "I know Jesus" is what does this mean to their heart?
Believing the right things, being part of the right group, fitting in can become more important than who they actually are. This is not restricted to any group or position, it is about how well we know ourselves, our emotional balances and our foundations.

Jesus talked about meeting followers at judgement day. He criticised one group for not helping Him while on earth and the others for helping Him. The difference was love extended to those in need. It has never been about proving or earning praise, it is about loving people and knowing what they are going through and feeling for them.

Maybe the internet and the types of people who type on forums already selects for those more introverted and less able to reach out to others. But for anyone, when Jesus reached out to us and answered our prayers and needs, so should we reach out to others with His light and love, which is what I am doing here.

God bless you

More on the works and doings of men.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

[Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

For as long as we've been speaking, I've said how Christ endured the wrongdoing of man against himself (as his Father does every day, and then he said,

Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven Mt.12:32

But when he returns, repentance towards salvation is ended.

[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Also told you concerning this verse, the repentant heart being granted by God is because the sinner hearing the gospel realized he needed forgivness.

A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people.
Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil’s trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants. 1Tim.2:24-26

There's nothing "beforehand" about this. It's plain.

 

[rogerg]

For as long as we've been speaking, I've said how Christ endured the wrongdoing of man against himself (as his Father does every day, and then he said,

Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven Mt.12:32

But when he returns, repentance towards salvation is ended.

Don't see that anything you've posted has to do with receiving repentance, and in general, really doesn't make sense to me at all. Anyway, my point was that to truly repent is to have one's heart turned by God to Christ to trust fully, solely, completely in Him as Saviour and completely away from ourselves for salvation. Repentance in that manner, can only be as a gift from God given to those who were chosen and are to be the recipients of salvation, as a part of being born again from above -- it is nothing that anyone can do of themselves. In fact, just the opposite is true: the more someone works to achieve it, the further from it they get.
The verses that I posted clearly informs that repentance is only from God and not of ourselves - that is why I posted them.

Also told you concerning this verse, the repentant heart being granted by God is because the sinner hearing the gospel realized he needed forgivness.

A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people.
Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil’s trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants. 1Tim.2:24-26

There's nothing "beforehand" about this. It's plain.

The sinner is first saved, and then from that comes to the knowledge of Christ alone as Saviour - all as gifts given from God to those whom He had chosen. Man contributes nothing to it, nor can he contribute to it - salvation was completed and satisfied totally between God the Father and Christ, not man - man is only its beneficiary - all was completed from the foundation of the world because Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

[Eph 1:4 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

[1Pe 1:19-20 KJV]
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

[Rev 13:8 KJV]
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Don't see that anything you've posted has to do with receiving repentance, and in general, really doesn't make sense to me at all. Anyway, my point was that to truly repent is to have one's heart turned by God to Christ to trust fully, solely, completely in Him as Saviour and completely away from ourselves for salvation. Repentance in that manner, can only be as a gift from God given to those who were chosen and are to be the recipients of salvation, as a part of being born again from above -- it is nothing that anyone can do of themselves. In fact, just the opposite is true: the more someone works to achieve it, the further from it they get.
The verses that I posted clearly informs that repentance is only from God and not of ourselves - that is why I posted them.

The sinner is first saved, and then from that comes to the knowledge of Christ alone as Saviour - all as gifts given from God to those whom He had chosen. Man contributes nothing to it, nor can he contribute to it - salvation was completed and satisfied totally between God the Father and Christ, not man - man is only its beneficiary - all was completed from the foundation of the world because Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

[Eph 1:4 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

[1Pe 1:19-20 KJV]
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

[Rev 13:8 KJV]
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

A better translation from the NET reads,
and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed. Rex.13:8

because the emphasis on "from the foundation of the world", is on the names written in the Lambs' book. Jesus wasn't slain from the foundation of the world, because

then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb.9:26

Our Lord can blot people out of his book, so "from the foundation of the world", everyones' name was written in it.

I 'm aware of your belief. Your belief makes Christs' sacrifice meaningless.

 

[PeterJens]

More on the works and doings of men.

Here is the fruit of theology. If how we talk and relate to Jesus, and to others is not part of who we are, then salvation has not dawned on the heart. It is a trait I noticed talking to some very dedicated folk.

One guy who claimed how he behaved did not matter, got very upset when it was suggest he smoked weed. This demonstrates how people lie to themselves, when they suggest who they are does not matter to them. Who they are in their own mind is assumed, it is all around them. When things shift and a boundary gets hit, the emotions get stirred up and they feel it very strongly and will express this.

One member decided he wanted to show me I was just like him, and wanted to shake me up to realise my limitations. What he was not aware of he was wrong. He got very angry just sharing certain positions, as if I was as he assumed. On the internet we only know these few words, not how we look, how old we are, our families, our habits etc. The danger is we can think we are just talking to ourselves and express those feelings that are normally private to the whole world.

In Christ though, these feelings of love, praise and devotion can shine, because they dwell in this quiet private space.
If this does not speak to an individual then maybe this quiet place is outside their experience. If this is so for you, I pray for you,

God bless you

 

[brightfame52]

roger g

The sinner is first saved, and then from that comes to the knowledge of Christ alone as Saviour - all as gifts given from God to those whom He had chosen. Man contributes nothing to it, nor can he contribute to it - salvation was completed and satisfied totally between God the Father and Christ, not man - man is only its beneficiary - all was completed from the foundation of the world because Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I am in absolute agreement here !

 

[brightfame52]

Here is the fruit of theology. If how we talk and relate to Jesus, and to others is not part of who we are, then salvation has not dawned on the heart. It is a trait I noticed talking to some very dedicated folk.

One guy who claimed how he behaved did not matter, got very upset when it was suggest he smoked weed. This demonstrates how people lie to themselves, when they suggest who they are does not matter to them. Who they are in their own mind is assumed, it is all around them. When things shift and a boundary gets hit, the emotions get stirred up and they feel it very strongly and will express this.

One member decided he wanted to show me I was just like him, and wanted to shake me up to realise my limitations. What he was not aware of he was wrong. He got very angry just sharing certain positions, as if I was as he assumed. On the internet we only know these few words, not how we look, how old we are, our families, our habits etc. The danger is we can think we are just talking to ourselves and express those feelings that are normally private to the whole world.

In Christ though, these feelings of love, praise and devotion can shine, because they dwell in this quiet private space.
If this does not speak to an individual then maybe this quiet place is outside their experience. If this is so for you, I pray for you,

God bless you

More on the works of men !

 

[rogerg]

A better translation from the NET reads,
and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed. Rex.13:8

because the emphasis on "from the foundation of the world", is on the names written in the Lambs' book. Jesus wasn't slain from the foundation of the world, because

then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb.9:26

Our Lord can blot people out of his book, so "from the foundation of the world", everyones' name was written in it.

I 'm aware of your belief. Your belief makes Christs' sacrifice meaningless.

I do not accept that version of the Bible is better, but to respond, I'll reference it

Really? How could anyone's name be written into the Lamb's book if He wasn't yet the Lamb?
The whole purpose of the Lamb was solely to be slain, as was demonstrated in/by OT Jewish law.

Above, you say "whose name has not been written since the foundation...". But then you go on to say " "so from the foundation of the world" everyones' name was written in it". Which is it? Everyone's name was not written in it, or everyone's name was written in it? You can't have it both ways. Logically speaking, that the names WERE written from the foundation, and since those are the names which could not be/were not removed, they remain. According to Luke 10:20, Jesus told them while He was yet alive, to rejoice because their names "stand written in heaven"? Why rejoice then if their names might still be removed? The reason was because their names were written and could not be removed. Interestingly, Christ was still alive when He said that to them. How could that be?
Your last sentence is absurd. My belief is that Christ alone IS the Saviour. Is it yours?

Using your version :
[Heb 4:3 NET] 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, "As I swore in my anger, 'They will never enter my rest!'" And yet God's works were accomplished from the foundation of the world.
[Heb 4:4 NET] 4 For he has spoken somewhere about the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,"

[Luk 10:20 NET] 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names stand written in heaven."

 

[PeterJens]

More on the works of men !

I see your comment. Jesus in this proposition did not expect change to take place, that the fruit of His work would take root and transform people, that there is real fruit of His work.

Except Jesus declared the Father reaped a harvest from His sown word. What did Jesus say the Kingdom of heaven is like the seed sown by a farmer.

10 The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
Matt 23:10-11

Jesus expects change, growth and maturity. As any farmer would need is maturity, fully developed consequences of the sown seed.

So to say it is only about Gods work and nothing to the affect on His people, is to miss Jesus's own message. We cannot separate the two, they work together, but to ignore the affect is to deny Jesus and His teaching. Jesus became friends with the disciples because friendship and love are His foundation and His family.

35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
John 13:35

The sign we know Jesus and follow His is our love for one another. Equally the opposite is true, ie those who do not love one another do not know Him. So when we look at the Lords people, we know how they will show themselves.

This is not because they are following a works salvation gospel, earning salvation, they are literally living the walk with Jesus which is heaven come to earth.

God bless you

 

[brightfame52]

rogerg

Really? How could anyone's name be written into the Lamb's book if He wasn't yet the Lamb?
The whole purpose of the Lamb was solely to be slain, as was demonstrated in/by OT Jewish law.

Agreed, Christ existed in Heaven before He became Incarnate. He existed in the Form of God Phil 2:5-7

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

 

[brightfame52]

I see your comment. Jesus in this proposition did not expect change to take place, that the fruit of His work would take root and transform people, that there is real fruit of His work.

Except Jesus declared the Father reaped a harvest from His sown word. What did Jesus say the Kingdom of heaven is like the seed sown by a farmer.

10 The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
Matt 23:10-11

Jesus expects change, growth and maturity. As any farmer would need is maturity, fully developed consequences of the sown seed.

So to say it is only about Gods work and nothing to the affect on His people, is to miss Jesus's own message. We cannot separate the two, they work together, but to ignore the affect is to deny Jesus and His teaching. Jesus became friends with the disciples because friendship and love are His foundation and His family.

35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
John 13:35

The sign we know Jesus and follow His is our love for one another. Equally the opposite is true, ie those who do not love one another do not know Him. So when we look at the Lords people, we know how they will show themselves.

This is not because they are following a works salvation gospel, earning salvation, they are literally living the walk with Jesus which is heaven come to earth.

God bless you

More on the works of men

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I do not accept that version of the Bible is better, but to respond, I'll reference it

Really? How could anyone's name be written into the Lamb's book if He wasn't yet the Lamb?

It's the Lambs' book of life, because he is God.

The whole purpose of the Lamb was solely to be slain, as was demonstrated in/by OT Jewish law.

No. The whole ourpose of the Lamb was soley to conquer death. According to OT Jewish law, Jesus was without sin and therefore sentenced wrongfully.

Above, you say "whose name has not been written since the foundation...". But then you go on to say " "so from the foundation of the world" everyones' name was written in it". Which is it? Everyone's name was not written in it, or everyone's name was written in it? You can't have it both ways.

The names are declared at the end of this world,

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Mt.25:34

So before that point, names can be removed and those turn their backs on God,

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. Psa.69:28

Logically speaking, that the names WERE written from the foundation, and since those are the names which could not be/were not removed, they remain.

Only the names of the faithful remain.

According to Luke 10:20, Jesus told them while He was yet alive, to rejoice because their names "stand written in heaven"? Why rejoice then if their names might still be removed? The reason was because their names were written and could not be removed.

In the passage you're referring to, his disciples were rejoicing about the power they had over demons. It seems our Lord was cautioning them against being intoxicated by power, as satan was.Their names were written in heaven because they followed our humble King,
Interestingly, Christ was still alive when He said that to them. How could that be?

Your last sentence is absurd. My belief is that Christ alone IS the Saviour. Is it yours?

Of course I believe in Jesus. I believe in our Father because of his Son,

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1Pet.1:21

But you believe some sinners are saved by God for no particular reason and belief is forced on them. This would make Christs' sacrifice meaningless, unnecessary. You're dead wrong

Using your version :
[Heb 4:3 NET] 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, "As I swore in my anger, 'They will never enter my rest!'" And yet God's works were accomplished from the foundation of the world.
[Heb 4:4 NET] 4 For he has spoken somewhere about the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,"

The works finished from the foundation of the world are light divided from darkness, water devided above from below, everything reproducing after its own kind, etc, but Father, Son and Spirit are still working.

To enter Gods' rest now, is to have the peace Jesus gives us in this world of turmoil,

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Jn.14:1

And to you who are troubled rest with us 2Thes.1:7