Is believing/faith a work ?

[OzSpen]

The word “believe” in the Greek text is “pisteuo” which is a verb denoting a work. If a person could believe in Christ before they are born again by the Spirit, it would mean they have done a work and that would mean they have worked for their salvation which is totally against what the scriptures teach. Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

bf,

James 2:14-18 (NET) provides the simple answer:

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm and eat well,” but you do not give them what the body needs, what good is it? 17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works.​

​

"Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works." Therefore, these verses demonstrate that works accompany faith to demonstrate faith in action. They are not part of faith but demonstrate faith's actions.

Oz

 

[brightfame52]

So believing now is "an abomination to the Lord." OY!

"By faith you were saved..."

Misrepresentation, thats dishonest.

 

[brightfame52]

bf,

James 2:14-18 (NET) provides the simple answer:

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm and eat well,” but you do not give them what the body needs, what good is it? 17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works.​

​

"Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works." Therefore, these verses demonstrate that works accompany faith to demonstrate faith in action. They are not part of faith but demonstrate faith's actions.

Oz

Rabbit trail and evasion.

 

[JLB]

Perhaps they had been part of a pseudo-religion that only presented half-truths.
But upon reading for themselves, actually had a change of heart.

wow! You are getting desperate.

Now your claim is the Church that Paul started and oversaw in Corinth and Ephesus, is a pseudo religion where Paul and the elders and Pastors taught half truths.

It never ceases to amaze me just how far people will twist and bend the scriptures to have it align with their man made doctrine.

Sinless perfection is a false doctrine.




JLB

 

[JLB]

My repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins came before I received the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Glad to hear it.

 

[JLB]

The sin "in my body" was eradicated when it was crucified with Christ.

Sorry to inform you that you still have a physical body that contains sin. It will contain sin until you die and are resurrected.



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

wow! You are getting desperate.

???

Now your claim is the Church that Paul started and oversaw in Corinth and Ephesus, is a pseudo religion where Paul and the elders and Pastors taught half truths.

I don't know where you got that idea, as I was referring to my own learnings from the bible from before I was converted...and in context with your comment.

It never ceases to amaze me just how far people will twist and bend the scriptures to have it align with their man made doctrine.

You ought to look at your comment I was responding to.
Post 205.
Some "unbelievers" do believe Jesus came and went on earth but, want to know more.
Maybe it just depends on what they believe.

Sinless perfection is a false doctrine.

Not to me and mine.
Or Paul..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Or Peter..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Or John..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
Or Jesus..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:32-34)
The truth shall free you from committing sin...according to Jesus.
Thanks be to God.

 

[Hopeful]

Glad to hear it.

I'm surprised you are glad to hear that my experience was different than you outlined.

 

[Hopeful]

Sorry to inform you that you still have a physical body that contains sin. It will contain sin until you die and are resurrected.

I am a new creature, born of God.
You are opining that God's seed brings forth sinful creatures.
I can't agree.

 

[rogerg]

No.
My arms and legs have no thought processes.
The mind handles everything before the arms and legs can do anything.

[Rom
7:23-25 KJV]
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[D-D-W]

Semantics.
Calling someone out-accusation, blame, what's the diff'?

Being in authority or not.

 

[JLB]

as I was referring to my own learnings from the bible from before I was converted...and in context with your comment.

Im using scripture, and the references Paul stated to the people in the Churches he oversaw.


You are interjected your own ideas or experiences into the scriptures rather than allowing the scripture to teach you the truth.





JLB

 

[JLB]

I'm surprised you are glad to hear that my experience was different than you outlined.

If you received the Holy Spirit, then I’m glad to hear it.

 

[JLB]

You are opining that God's seed brings forth sinful creatures.

This is a false statement, as I never said any such thing.

You natural body was born as a procreation from your father and mother.

Your spirit was born again by the Spirit.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


What you are attempting to teach is our physical body is born of God.

IOW, you believe our flesh can produce the righteousness of God.


This is the false teaching of the sinless perfection doctrine.





JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 4:4

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

This scripture identifies with those of mans religion that promote that salvation is the reward for the merit of107 repentance or believing. Those with that mindset have totally forsaken the truth of Salvation by Grace through Faith Eph 2:8 !

 

[Edward]

This is a false statement, as I never said any such thing.

You natural body was born as a procreation from your father and mother.

Your spirit was born again by the Spirit.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


What you are attempting to teach is our physical body is born of God.

IOW, you believe our flesh can produce the righteousness of God.


This is the false teaching of the sinless perfection doctrine.





JLB

You're right. Because even after being born again, we are still here in this flesh body and unperfected. This Earth of the Lord's is a University for teaching us during our time on earth. With built in trials and pitfalls every day at every turn! Way too hard for anyone to ace it, except Jesus. The University of Brotherly Love.

And it takes time to teach a man how to love another who is trying to kill him. (We're all slow learners, Lol)

 

[Hopeful]

[Rom
7:23-25 KJV]
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Thank God for Rom 8:2's answer to our, and Paul's, pre-conversion plight.
It is written..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

And Rom 7:24? "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
Already answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

Rom 7 is a sort of transition point between Rom 6's death of the flesh and Rom 8's walk in the Spirit.

 

[Hopeful]

Being in authority or not.

Sounds like a new topic !

 

[Hopeful]

Im using scripture, and the references Paul stated to the people in the Churches he oversaw.


You are interjected your own ideas or experiences into the scriptures rather than allowing the scripture to teach you the truth.

My experience isn't unscriptural.
I heard, believed, was converted, and grew in grace and knowledge.
But there was some knowledge of Jesus and righteous living already in my mind from years prior to my conversion.

 

[Hopeful]

This is a false statement, as I never said any such thing.

From Post #229..."Sorry to inform you that you still have a physical body that contains sin. It will contain sin until you die and are resurrected."
After my death with Jesus, I was raised with Him to walk in newness of life.
Continued sin wouldn't be a new life.

You natural body was born as a procreation from your father and mother
Your spirit was born again by the Spirit.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6
What you are attempting to teach is our physical body is born of God.
IOW, you believe our flesh can produce the righteousness of God.
This is the false teaching of the sinless perfection doctrine.

It is apparent that we have different opinions on rebirth.