Is Jesus FULLY God & Praying

[lowrab777]

I believe the word ELOHIM has alot to do with understanding the Family of GOD AND JESUS put proverbs 8 into perspective

Pro 8:22 Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, Before the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth, When there were no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills was I brought forth;
Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, Nor the beginning of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea its bound, That th
e waters should not transgress his commandment, When he marked out the foundations of the earth;
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as a master workman; And I was daily his delight, Rejoicing always before him,
Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in his habitable earth; And my delight was with the sons of men.

and of course the narrative given in Geneses

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

and then in John

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

 

[lowrab777]

The Holy Spirit is part of GOD that dwells in us it allows JESUS to live in us it allows us to stand before the throne of GOD
I always imagined it like this if you were a sail boat with your sails aloft the holy spirit /wind would fill up your sail and move you in the direction that god wants you to go,.. Of course it is his very breath that fills that sail,...
JESUS himself would be a pipe or conduit used to direct that breath all three elements working together to perform one task, that is to direct the sons of men to from the dangers of the raging sea into the peaceful river of life.

 

[Brother Mike]

Re: Is Jesus FULLY God & Praying

I believe the word ELOHIM has alot to do with understanding the Family of GOD AND JESUS put proverbs 8 into perspective

I believe it's a family also. Father and Son, Because of the Father saving us though His sent son we are also in the family. Trinity excludes man from the Family. Despite the scripture that we are the Godhead bodily. We judge angels, we rule with our family. God's Family. Trinity does not believe in "Family" just the Holy Spirit, Father and Son. We are left out of the Ruling Godhead.

Mike.

 

[Nick]

Nobody has attacked Brother, you seem to be a little irritated though.

That is simply not correct. Read your post #227 again.

Those accusations you threw at Free were by the way not correct.

Lay off the personal attacks and stick with the subject. If you have issues with Free personally, then take it to PMs.

 

[lowrab777]

Re: Is Jesus FULLY God & Praying

I believe the word ELOHIM has alot to do with understanding the Family of GOD AND JESUS put proverbs 8 into perspective

I believe it's a family also. Father and Son, Because of the Father saving us though His sent son we are also in the family. Trinity excludes man from the Family. Despite the scripture that we are the Godhead bodily. We judge angels, we rule with our family. God's Family. Trinity does not believe in "Family" just the Holy Spirit, Father and Son. We are left out of the Ruling Godhead.

Mike.

The trinity thing doesnt really bother me if it helps people understand it better, even though it is catholic in origin (Constantine and counsel at Nicea I believe).
But it confuses me, its a little hard to pin down in scripture, So I can agree to disagree with some of it.
It is kind of an annoyance when christians beat other christians over the head with it, I personaly have been cornered over the subject and accused of not being a true christian because of some trinity points that I disagree with.
The word ELOHIM does however mean Family it is plural in meaning and I believe that makes alot more since.

The holy spirit is to me,.. as GODS very breath.
The word RUACH means wind the word PNEUMA means wind, it is where the word pneumatic derives from. ,......... That means its a ............ HOLY WIND.
Then there is GOD which is sitting at his thrown and JESUS sitting at his right hand.
What ever GOD and JESUS are composed of they are still the same GOD and WORD of John 1:1 and they are still still the ELOHIM of geneses.
And the HOLY SPIRIT of John14 is still the SACRED BREATH of Psalm51:11
Thats the way I understand it.

I dont think I'm going to be trying to force anyone to look at it that way though.
Trinity or no trinity
GOD is GOD / Father ,
JESUS is the WORD / SON ,
HOLY SPIRIT is the SACRED WIND / ADVOCATE/COMFORTER/,..... HOLY.....SPIRIT.
And YES THEY ARE ALL WORKING TOGETHER AS ONE. Really thats the simplest way I can perceive it.
I dont feel like trying to break it down any more than that.

 

[lowrab777]

psychopathic geometry.

And Yes,..... Constantine was definatly a psychopath. but I dont believe that makes the Christain a psychopath,... Its like I said man if helps people in some way wrap there mind around it then let them have it. Take fault rather,.. as the scripture encourages you to.

 

[Brother Mike]

EDITED

Trinity​

There belief of Trinity is there is only ONE GOD. Monotheism. There are many different versions of Trinity. All versions conclude there is ONE GOD.

We see in the bible there is Clearly ONE GOD. ONE GOD who is creator, Saviour, our refuge. The Jewish people had many names for all this ONE GOD Was to them. We are all in agreement. ONE GOD!!!
IN the Bible there is mention of someone else. A son, the Son of God. We get glimpses of him in the OT. He is talking to the Father when they say Let us make man in our image. God does not fully reveal him in the OT, but we see him spoken about to come.

We all agree on this. God called him a Servant, Jesus said this about Himself.

Joh_17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus was here before the World was formed. He had always been with the Father. We all agree on this for the Trinity says each are God, each a person, Each Coequal. We are in agreement.
No question here, Jesus always was, is, and had been.

This is not the JW or Mormon belief....................................

There are two thrones, God the father and Our Lord Jesus Christ has always been separated. Jesus is one in the Father as we are One in Him. We are not God the father though. We are the body or the Godhead bodily. We are in the Godhead that will rule with our Lord. Trinity omits man from the family of God. Scripture says different.

So, we have 3 who are fully God, Always been. The Holy Spirit is never called God, does not speak on his own, does not have a throne........... However, by definition given in Greek and Hebrew for "god" He is also God. He never got the title, but by definition He is. We all agree the Holy Spirit is God. Jesus is God, the Father is God.

This is the Trinity Doctrine................................ This is where the idea of ONE GOD came from. We all Agree on the 3, All agree they are as one, working as one, all have a part in our redemption.

Right from the Doctrine itself....................

III. THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY IS A MYSTERY INSCRUTABLE AND INSOLUBLE TO FINITE MINDS; BUT IT IS NOT SELF-CONTRADICTORY.

We make no attempt to deny or to explain away the mystery of the doctrine of the Trinity. It is a high mystery that human minds can never fathom.

Where we don't agree is taking all 3 and smashing them together to make one and call it "GOD". Read the doctrine itself, They make no attempt to explain this or deny this. This language is in every single Trinity Doctrine.

Rome says (The first to come up with a Written version not making Jesus some deity as the first incantation of this idea did)

It is a mystery of the Christian faith, Not seen in scripture but what we believe that there is only One God, all in all.

This is what I asked a Certain person to explain, I knew it would come to this.

What I would respect as a bible student is for a person to say that I believe there is only ONE GOD. I don't believe in Polytheism. I Believe the trinity doctrine as it is written that the 3 are 1. I don't have to explain myself, it is my faith in God.

End of discussion!!!!!! I respect that, it's fine and makes sense. You say you believe in more than one God who both sit on their each throne it can open yourself up to possible error or being misunderstood.

What I will call out on the table is those so full of themselves to think they can explain their Doctrine when those that made the doctrine already told you it can't be explained. There are far to many scriptural contradiction for it to be explained. Someone trying to explain it does not even know what their own Doctrine states clearly in all forms of it. In effect they state they know more than those that have labored hard to defend this doctrine and what they have found. People have died over this doctrine to protect our belief in God, bringing in all forms of demi gods and such. I am thankful for those before standing up and saying we believe in ONE GOD, and there is only ONE GOD!!!

If you believe in the ONE GOD, then there is no issues. No need to explain, you just believe that. End of discussion, but if you think you can do what those that have written the Doctrine already said can't be done. Then we have an issue.

It's all in agreement until we smash 3 persons who are fully God into just ONE GOD. That is the mystery. Understand the mystery, hold onto what you believe.

Blessings.

Mike.

 

[lowrab777]

We see in the bible there is Clearly ONE GOD. ONE GOD who is creator, Saviour, our refuge. The Jewish people had many names for all this ONE GOD Was to them. We are all in agreement. ONE GOD!!!

I like that you pointed out the mystery part of it, because it truly is a mystery.
No need for us revive the crusades over the technical points.

AGREED! ONE GOD.

 

[Free]

Right from the Doctrine itself....................

III. THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY IS A MYSTERY INSCRUTABLE AND INSOLUBLE TO FINITE MINDS; BUT IT IS NOT SELF-CONTRADICTORY.

We make no attempt to deny or to explain away the mystery of the doctrine of the Trinity. It is a high mystery that human minds can never fathom.

Before I continue, what is your source for this?

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

So based on the understanding/biases of learned leaders/people of influence from long ago, the explaination of God they came up with to reconsile the scriptures with their understanding was the Trinity Doctrine. Since then, that doctrine has gained support to the point that it is viewed by many as if it was scripture as opposed to an understanding of scripture that could be flawed. The problem with accepting it as a given and a proven fact is that it is simply not proven. Is it a reasonable conclusion one might draw from study, perhaps, but there are other just as reasonable conclusions that can be drawn that do not support this dare I say, MAN MADE DOCTRINE. We need to be willing to open our minds and our Bibles so that we can use those 2 things as opposed to our conditioning and preconceptions to properly develop and build upon the faith that can be drawn from scripture.

 

[Free]

EDITED

Trinity​

There belief of Trinity is there is only ONE GOD. Monotheism. There are many different versions of Trinity. All versions conclude there is ONE GOD.

We see in the bible there is Clearly ONE GOD. ONE GOD who is creator, Saviour, our refuge. The Jewish people had many names for all this ONE GOD Was to them. We are all in agreement. ONE GOD!!!
IN the Bible there is mention of someone else. A son, the Son of God. We get glimpses of him in the OT. He is talking to the Father when they say Let us make man in our image. God does not fully reveal him in the OT, but we see him spoken about to come.

We all agree on this. God called him a Servant, Jesus said this about Himself.

Joh_17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus was here before the World was formed. He had always been with the Father. We all agree on this for the Trinity says each are God, each a person, Each Coequal. We are in agreement.
No question here, Jesus always was, is, and had been.

This is not the JW or Mormon belief....................................

There are two thrones, God the father and Our Lord Jesus Christ has always been separated. Jesus is one in the Father as we are One in Him. We are not God the father though. We are the body or the Godhead bodily. We are in the Godhead that will rule with our Lord. Trinity omits man from the family of God. Scripture says different.

So, we have 3 who are fully God, Always been. The Holy Spirit is never called God, does not speak on his own, does not have a throne........... However, by definition given in Greek and Hebrew for "god" He is also God. He never got the title, but by definition He is. We all agree the Holy Spirit is God. Jesus is God, the Father is God.

This is the Trinity Doctrine................................ This is where the idea of ONE GOD came from. We all Agree on the 3, All agree they are as one, working as one, all have a part in our redemption.

I'm not sure how to reconcile that with what you have stated previously:

We have many gods in heaven and earth. No wonder if Jesus called us gods and Satan is god of this world. Theos is generic term. Paul said though only One God but recognize two.

We are begotten of the Word, born of incorruptible seed and each seed produces after it's own Kind. In the image of God but not God the father either.

I believe Jesus is the One and true God, always been here, but here with His father as He stated. Trinity's statement is there is ONE God, and Only one. This Makes for just one, and avoids sounding like Jesus was some demi god or something. However if there is just ONE, then someone is not fully God without the other as it's a triune God.
.......
We have two thrones, one belongs to Jesus, The other to God the Father. No throne ever mentioned for the other 1/3 part (Holy Spirit) Thrones represent ruling power and all authority and there are only two main ones in Heaven with the 24 elders. The important ones are the ones the Father and Son sit in next to each other.

Now, how many Gods we have here? God is a class of something because Theos is generic unless defined. Two thrones, mean two God's. If their is only ONE made up of 3 then Each would have a throne all fully God but the Holy Spirit got left out somewhere. Oh my.

God being only One who created all things. No other maker or creator mentioned, no other gods created. devils are refered to as gods (False god's) Jesus called us gods, Satan is called god.

You say there is one God, yet believe there are many gods, which includes us, and that Jesus and the Father makes two Gods. I'm not sure how you can say that "we all agree on this," when what you believe contradicts not only what we believe, but your own beliefs as well.

Just wanting clarification as that is the most incoherent, confusing position I have ever come across.

 

[Free]

So based on the understanding/biases of learned leaders/people of influence from long ago, the explaination of God they came up with to reconsile the scriptures with their understanding was the Trinity Doctrine. Since then, that doctrine has gained support to the point that it is viewed by many as if it was scripture as opposed to an understanding of scripture that could be flawed. The problem with accepting it as a given and a proven fact is that it is simply not proven. Is it a reasonable conclusion one might draw from study, perhaps, but there are other just as reasonable conclusions that can be drawn that do not support this dare I say, MAN MADE DOCTRINE. We need to be willing to open our minds and our Bibles so that we can use those 2 things as opposed to our conditioning and preconceptions to properly develop and build upon the faith that can be drawn from scripture.

If you have a different reasonable conclusion, then please feel free to present it. Apart from the doctrine of the Trinity I have yet to see a position that takes into account all that Scripture states regarding the nature of God.

 

[MarkT]

Yes, I know what part you are referring to. Let's go back to your initial argument, which is what I was addressing:

"Or the WORD was 'Jesus', the Father's real name. He was the workman. Is the CC willing to confer personhood on the workman even though he was created? Pr. 8:22 'The LORD created me at the beginning of his work.'"

My point is that not only is Proverbs merely personifying wisdom, so that alone means it isn't likely referring to Jesus, but that wisdom is always thought of as female. Not to mention you are ignoring who "the workman" is:

Pro 8:12 "I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, and I find knowledge and discretion. (ESV)

That very workman is wisdom personified.

So the likelihood of the workman in Proverbs 8:22 being Jesus is slim to none. The case is just too weak.

Solomon, inspired by the Holy Spirit says, wisdom will come into your heart, Say to wisdom, "You are my sister," and call insight your intimate friend. Does not wisdom call, does not understanding raise her voice?

It's the Holy Spirit saying those things. The Spirit is not saying wisdom was created in the beginning. Wisdom is not saying the LORD created me in the beginning. The words given to Solomon are words inspired by the Spirit of God, the Counsellor. Where does the Counsellor lead us? He leads us to the beginning. So go back to the beginning. What did God create in the beginning? What was his first act? The light. Jesus said He was the light.

The Counselor "leads us to the beginning" (I'd like to see you prove this somehow, especially in the exclusive sense in which you are saying it), where God created the light and, therefore, because Jesus said he was the light (he said he was quite a few things), that that means he was the light God created in the beginning? Goodness, no. That is just proof-texting. You are making connections where there aren't any and ignoring ample Scripture in doing so.

We simply cannot say that because Jesus said he was the light, that therefore he was the light God created in the beginning. There simply is no basis for doing so.

The better rendering of Pr 8:22 is that of "possessing," not "creating." In other words, God possessed wisdom from the beginning. To say that wisdom was created, God's first act of creation, would mean that he was without wisdom prior to creating.

Too many problems with this position and it really doesn't line up with what Scripture says.

Yes, he said many things of himself. Are you going to dismiss everything or only choose some things to believe? Jesus said Abraham saw his day. He didn't say Abraham saw me, rather he uses day for his appearance. Abraham rejoiced when he saw it. What did Abraham see? He saw the day. The light. The image. The image of the Father. He brings us back to the beginning, the first act of old, the light and the workman.

 

[Eugene]

The Holy Spirit is never called God, does not speak on his own,

The Holy Spirit was not Jesus' spirit; He pointed to Christ and glorified Him in John 16:14.

The Holy Spirit is not the Father. In John 16:15 the Father refers to the Holy Spirit as "He."

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Acts 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

 

[Brother Mike]

Before I continue, what is your source for this?

That would be the Baptist version of the Trinity. I can post the others if you like. Southern Baptist to be more exact. It is well written and thought out, So I used that.

I like that you pointed out the mystery part of it, because it truly is a mystery.
No need for us revive the crusades over the technical points.

AGREED! ONE GOD.

Praise God Brother!!!! That has been my point, nothing wrong, and no need to explain the technical points or explain scriptures that "MAY" possibly contradict. Faith believes and is not moved by what it believes. ONE GOD!!!

You say there is one God, yet believe there are many gods, which includes us, and that Jesus and the Father makes two Gods. I'm not sure how you can say that "we all agree on this," when what you believe contradicts not only what we believe, but your own beliefs as well.

Just wanting clarification as that is the most incoherent, confusing position I have ever come across.

We are having a problem with communication.

As the doctrine states.......

(2) By The Fact that Each One of the Three is Recognized As God.

We have already shown that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are severally recognized as God in the Scripture. This shows their unity, because God is represented as being the supreme being. For that reason there could not be three Gods. Supremacy is possible to only one.

(3) By the Fact that the Three are Equal.

We have already discussed the equality of the members of the Trinity. Absolute equality is impossible without identity of essence, nature, and being.

I am in full agreement with this. We see a Father figure, we see ONE GOD, the Saviour, the healer, and so fourth.

No contradictions here. We agree, this is not the JW or mormon view. It's not a oneness view, it's not a unilateralist view.

There are 3, Each are God, each a person, Each no lesser or greater than the other.

I come in and say but wait!!! People are gods, and Satan is god and bla, bla, bla, bla............... I understand it sounds very contradicting. God the Father, God the Son (Using it for clarification I don't have the scripture) God the Holy Spirit (Once again, I don't have that scripture, just for clarification) Are all titles denoting a specific Theos. John the One True God is a title. God the Father is a Title. Theos by itself is not a title but can be or defined in the article.

This is how Satan is called theos. God of this World is a title.

Now, I do not see any thing else being called a deity of uncertain affinity as god whom I follow or give heed to but the 3 as listed in the Trinity Doctrine. However, as Paul stated there be many gods in heaven and earth and many lords we only give reverence to TWO of them. God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Where I see two God's, two persons, two equal "AS" you also see them. There are two as the Doctrine has clearly stated.

Where I jump off your train, so to speak is where those 2 suddenly become One with the same name "GOD" without title. The 3 have titles ........... God the Father, The Lord Jesus Christ and God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit whom God sent.

Mashing them into One, all 3 distinct persons loose their place and title. There are not two thrones anymore but ONE. That is my issue, and that is the Mystery part of the Doctrine itself.

If I am told that part is a mystery, then I have a choice. I believe it, or I don't believe it.

Mike.

 

[Eugene]

There are not two thrones anymore but ONE.

When were there two thrones? Are you referring to Hebrews 1:8? Thanks.

 

[Brother Mike]

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Heb_1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb_10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

There you Go brother.

As I said, Trinity Doctrine states that Each part of the Trinity is a full person, coequal, a different person though and all 3 are fully God.

These scriptures line up perfectly. Jesus said He has a throne, and He said His father has a throne (none for the Holy Spirit but for the sake of the example we won't discuss the Holy Spirit)

Jesus was Honored to sit on His Fathers Throne, and in return, Jesus will honor us the same on His throne. Both God, Both unique persons, Both coequal as the Trinity Doctrine states.

We get to sit with Jesus on His Throne, Not the Fathers, but His............................ TWO Gods, fully each their own person, both coequal..............Both are God

However, the Doctrine of the trinity takes one step further............................... There is only ONE GOD, by which the 3 Gods that are persons make.

That is where I jump off the ship, It don't make sense to me. However, All forms of the Trinity Doctrine include the "Mystery" part. It's the mystery Part I don't get.

The oneness Doctrine says.................. There is one God, that manifest Himself into 3 different Persons, all Coequal and God.

Trinity says there are 3 Gods, all persons, all equal but are only One God.

I find some get the doctrines confused at time so just needed to clarify.


Blessings.

Mike.

 

[Brother Mike]

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Heb_1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb_10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

There you Go brother.

As I said, Trinity Doctrine states that Each part of the Trinity is a full person, coequal, a different person though and all 3 are fully God.

These scriptures line up perfectly. Jesus said He has a throne, and He said His father has a throne (none for the Holy Spirit but for the sake of the example we won't discuss the Holy Spirit)

Jesus was Honored to sit on His Fathers Throne, and in return, Jesus will honor us the same on His throne. Both God, Both unique persons, Both coequal as the Trinity Doctrine states.

We get to sit with Jesus on His Throne, Not the Fathers, but His............................ TWO Gods, fully each their own person, both coequal..............Both are God

However, the Doctrine of the trinity takes one step further............................... There is only ONE GOD, by which the 3 Gods that are persons make.

That is where I jump off the ship, It don't make sense to me. However, All forms of the Trinity Doctrine include the "Mystery" part. It's the mystery Part I don't get.

The oneness Doctrine says.................. There is one God, that manifest Himself into 3 different Persons, all Coequal and God.

Trinity says there are 3 Gods, all persons, all equal but are only One God.

I find some get the doctrines confused at time so just needed to clarify.


Blessings.

Mike.

 

[Free]

That would be the Baptist version of the Trinity. I can post the others if you like. Southern Baptist to be more exact. It is well written and thought out, So I used that.

I was meaning that it looks like a copy and paste from the Internet, so I was wondering if you could post a link to the source.

 

[Brother Mike]

I was meaning that it looks like a copy and paste from the Internet, so I was wondering if you could post a link to the source.

It is a copy and Past so I did not get the Wording wrong.

http://hbdoctrine.webs.com/simmonsch7.htm

Here is an older version if you like.
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm

Explaining the concept of the Trinity in human terms has been determined to be an impossibility. Rationalists may balk at the idea but those who put their trust in God's perfect Word accept it without hesitation. Divine mysteries may not line up with man's need to understand everything in a logical manner but, then again, denying the obvious Biblical teaching of Trinitarianism is one that one will have to take up with God. It seems that He insists upon it, so any argument is mute.

This is a more modern essay in Baptist style. I fit in that category of it needs to make sense, denying the obvious Biblical teachings that don't make sense. If I insist of debating it then the argument is mute because you can't make sense out of something that does not. Only if you say it makes sense, then you come into my World, trying to defend something that I am told I need to take up with God as humans can't explain it. If we stay in our own Worlds then no argument or disagreement.

http://www.allaboutbaptists.com/doctrines_God_the_Holy_Spirit.html

My question is, If you believe you can't explain it in "HUMAN" terms as God gave the Word to man "Who is Human" then how did you come up with the idea in the first place? Any denying of biblical teaching is only because those teaching it have said that as humans we won't get it. I don't get it............

Another Mystery.


I hope this helps..

Mike.