Is Jesus FULLY God & Praying

[By Grace]

That's because I'm not thinking in religious terms.

Whenever one uses a religious term, such as "polytheism" as you did, due to the definition of the term, that person is "speaking in religious terms" . It cannot be otherwise.

You and Free are the ones that are putting down @Brother Mike

I directed my comments to you, and no one else. Therefore I am perplexed at your statement. Look carefully at what he stated:

No, he's a polytheist which goes against the Bible. That is very far from what I believe.

It is a statement of what the poster believes, and the definition of another poster's theology.

I still haven't heard an explanation of why.

An accurate explanation of something is not the same as an attack.

 

[Free]

Polytheism does not go against the Bible. Please explain how it does. To me that's just a religious word so..

I wish you were only joking. Judaism and Christianity have always been monotheistic. Belief in only one God is foundational to both belief systems. I have already given several passages which show this to be the case:

All you're saying to me is that you're preaching is based on religion and not love. What specifically about Brother Mike's trinity do you disagree with.

You already asked this and even quoted my response.

What exactly is polytheismism or whatever. I have no idea what it is. So teach me.

But you already stated:

Polytheism does not go against the Bible.

How can you say that "polytheism does not go against the Bible" if you "have no idea what it is"? I think you know very well what it is.

As for polytheism being a "religious word," yes, of course it is. This is a Christian forum so what else should one expect? If we were to do away with all the "religious words," we would no longer be a Christian forum. Should we do away with "theism"? What about "theology," "apologetics," "soteriology," or "propitiation"?

To dismiss "polytheism" as a "religious word" is nonsensical. It is a total evasion of the seriousness of the contradiction that has been posited. And it appears that the contradiction isn't going to be dealt with.

 

[Bro Steve Winter]

Polytheism is the belief in more than one god being or "person". Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God.

1Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Regards,
Bro. Winter

 

[Brother Mike]

To dismiss "polytheism" as a "religious word" is nonsensical. It is a total evasion of the seriousness of the contradiction that has been posited. And it appears that the contradiction isn't going to be dealt with.

Because of you Free. I will jump back in. Only out of respect as I normally jump out and stay out. I see no reason to continue this Trinity discussion, I don't see how it can productive. We already established it's a Mystery and I posted several different denominational beliefs that are modern by todays standard, All calling it a mystery. The mystery part in all of them if you go back and read their literature and creeds is that 3 does not equal 1. Also their definition of "god" would need changed expect that each person in the trinity is separate, distinct and fully God. They already understand that by definition each distinct person that is called God would also have to be triune or else Not God by definition. This presents major issues to the Doctrine itself. Not my words but those that wrote the doctrine. I am using their own findings and arguments.

So it becomes a mystery that the human finite mind can not comprehend.

I have people here trying to explain something that those that wrote the doctrine already know you can't explain it. That is why I don't see a point to continue, because if it's a mystery that is a foreign concept to human reasoning then A) You accept it for what it is. Or B) you have to redefine who and what you always believed God to be.

So where is the discussion then? It goes right back down to what is a "god" Who defines that? No matter the differences in the many different versions of this Trinity Doctrine, they all point to ONE GOD. They all have the same wording that the 3 beings are separate and distinct but fully God. They are not triune though to fit the definition of ONE GOD and hence the mystery.

Isa 43:10-11, 10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. 11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

One God, one Saviour, One creator, there is no other God formed nor shall any be.

We examine that in fact by scripture there is only One God who created everything, and by whom we are saved. No question here. None made like him, none before or after Him. ONE.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

This scripture says the same exact thing. There is ONE GOD by whom are all things. One that made everything and everything by HIM. NO other God, No other creator. We have Jesus our Lord by whom are all things, or through him are all things and we came to God because of Him.

God is the Saviour...................... How did the ONE God the creator save us?

Act_3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

The Creator, the Saviour "RAISED UP" His son. Not Sent Himself as the Creator did not need raised up. He sent His actual Son. By whom The ONE GOD, Creator of all things, made everything because and for His Son by whom the ONE GOD made an heir of all things.

Jesus was not confused at all...................... It's a Doctrine of man that is called a mystery that confuses the issue.

Joh_17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

ONE GOD that Sent his Son. There is no other God like the creator, no other God that saved us but the ONE GOD, The Father, The Creator having raised up A son for us and sent Him to us.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

This is Jesus, the Son of God who had always been with the Father, the Creator, whom the Creator gave glory to before the earth was even formed.

Missing is the other part of God in all these verses about glory and being raised up. The one that don't have a throne. That is God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit. Because He belongs to God.

Bible only teaches there is ONE GOD:

Wrong!!! The bible teachers there is only One God the Father, the creator. The definition of God used in the bible is ONE of something not triune in nature. Not one place is Triune or Trinity is used to describe God or the concept of a god. The Holy Spirit used different words. None denote a triune being, not even close.

2Co_4:4 In whom the god (Theos some name given to God the Father) of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

In whom the "What" of this World............................. GOD. Satan is not a triune being. That makes two gods at least if the creator is somehow triune by the mystery we are told.

Well, ......... Satan is not God brother Mike... I mean come on, really. He is just god of this Word, but not god.

Then you be the one to tell the Holy Spirit He should have used a different Greek word. Tell him He is Wrong when you talk to him. Theos ..... A deity of uncertain origin. The Holy Spirit could have used a number of different words.

Does a deity of uncertain origin sound Triune to you?

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (In response to accusing him of making himself to be God)

There are now 3 Gods. A triune God, Us and Satan...............Theos..

Well, Jesus did not mean we are god.... He just meant that we are something, something who knows, but not god. Go talk to Jesus about it, tell him He used the wrong Word.

God is not defined in the bible as Triune. It is defined as a class of something, given with the title. The bible defines more than one type of thing in that class. Trinity says there is only one God made up of 3 other distinct Gods.

I'll take the scripture over the mystery. I hope this is enough. (God had to raise up a Part of himself to send Himself in the flesh...... wow) It certainly is a mystery.

Mike.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=142]Free[/MENTION] You still haven't told me why you disagree with [MENTION=7377]Brother Mike[/MENTION]. Tell me how polytheism goes against what you believe. Brother Mike believes that there is one God with 3 separate persons working as God deity. That's what you believe Free. I have read your posts. As far as I'm concerned, both of you follow the same trinity but are following different religious words. Now, does that make sense? No. What about the word LOVE. Brother Mike is not a Jehovah Witness, so I don't know why you disagree.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=142]Free[/MENTION] For example, if the Holy Spirit dwells inside of you AND Brother Mike, then what's the problem.

 

[Brother Mike]

Tell me how polytheism goes against what you believe. Brother Mike believes that there is one God with 3 separate persons working as God deity.

I do, there is Only ONE God. The father, the Creator, the one that Saved us by sending His son. I believe all three are deity. The problem is what is the definition of god? I am taking the exact Hebrew or Greek word for the definition. Free is taking the Trinity definition. That is where the hang up comes. I do love Brother free, I just don't understand how or why you would attempt to use scriptures to explain something that you believe when what you believe has already told you it can't be fully explained. It's as if Free has gotten this amazing revelation that nobody who even wrote the different Trinity Doctrines had.
Go back and read...................... these doctrines were made by some very brilliant people that love God. They have debated and covered all the scriptures mentioned here and lots, lots more. This is why they have included the mystery part to their own doctrine. They realized that there are many problematic scriptures that can't be explained, but it does not denote that God is 3 in 1. There is only ONE GOD. The people that wrote the doctrines are not stupid, some amazing revelation has come from these folks. Free believes he somehow can defend a mystery. I believe that Free has never gone back and examined or spent the hours and hours reading on this that I have. I think it's something He was taught as true and given some scriptures to help support it.

I also can give scripture to support the Trinity Doctrine as it stands. I have to ignore a bunch though. That is why the 3 in 1 is a mystery. I can have Jesus fully God, yet separate from His Father yet there only be ONE GOD. That is the mystery part to explain all those problematic scriptures. Since it's a mystery that the human mind can't comprehend then I can keep my Trinity Doctrine. Who's to say different?

Mike.

 

[Bro Steve Winter]

The trinity was not invented until after all the Apostles were gone from the Earth.



CANNEY ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION, Page 53 -- "The early church always baptized in the Name of Lord Jesus until the development of the trinity doctrine in the 2nd Century."

HASTINGS ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION, Vol. 2 pages 377-378-389, "The
Christian baptism was administered using the Name of Jesus. The use of the trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in the early church history, baptism was always in the Name of the Lord Jesus, until the time of Justin Martyr when the trinity formula was used." Hastings also said in Vol. 2 Page 377, commenting on Acts 2:38, "NAME was an ancient synonym for person. Payment was always made in the name of some person referring to ownership. Therefore one being baptized in Jesus Name became his personal property." "Ye are Christ's." I Cor. 3:23.

NEW INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol. 22 Page 477, "The term "trinity" was originated by Tertullain, Roman Catholic Church father."

TYNDALE NEW TESTAMENT COMMENTARIES: "... the true explanation why the early church did not at once administer baptism in the threefold name is that the words of Mat 28:19 were not meant as a baptismal formula. [Jesus] was not giving instructions about the actual words to be used in the service of baptism, but, as has already been suggested, was indicating that the baptized person would by baptism pass into the possession of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost."

THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION AND ETHICS, James Hastings, p.384, "there is no evidence [in early church history] for the use of the triune name."

I hope this helps...

Bro. Winter

 

[Eugene]

We can't fathom it because it's not scripture. No scripture in the bible defines a god as a triune being......... NOWHERE!!!!

Our Statement of Faith
We believe that there is only one God, who is eternal and immutable, and manifests Himself in three distinct Persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Is our Father God?
Is Jesus God?
Is the Holy Spirit God?

Brother Mike, I do not know what previous posts may have brought out; there are just too many for me to research at this time, but yes or no and a scripture to justify a "No" will suffice, and I'll get back to you. Thanks.

 

[Bro Steve Winter]

Since it's a mystery that the human mind can't comprehend then I can keep my Trinity Doctrine. Who's to say different?

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

From these scriptures it would seem that the Bible does not endorse trinity polytheism.

I have a Bible study revealing the MYSTERY of the Trinity.

Bro. Winter

 

[Brother Mike]

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

From these scriptures it would seem that the Bible does not endorse trinity polytheism.

I have a Bible study revealing the MYSTERY of the Trinity.

Bro. Winter

Thank you Steve. For you just put us "IN" him as being the complete Fullness of the Godhead Bodily. We are the Body of Christ an in Jesus with us in Him is the fullness of the Godhead or the ruling force in Heaven. As it is written we shall rule with Him as heirs as He is and kings and priest. We shall even judge the Angels as part of that Godhead Body.

Brother Steve. We are discussing the concept of how the Trinity Doctrine was written. Concerning the Eternal Godhead it consist of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Us in Him in the body are not included in the Doctrine itself as written. Godhead used twice and two different Greek Words but translated Godhead includes us as the Body and part of Heavens Operation, Being heirs under the Lord Jesus Christ.

Could you post the Version of the Trinity Doctrine your using that includes the Children of God also? I have never seen this version or concept concerning the Godhead and the many different Trinity Doctrines.

God bless and thank you.

Mike.

Our Statement of Faith
We believe that there is only one God, who is eternal and immutable, and manifests Himself in three distinct Persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Is our Father God?
Is Jesus God?
Is the Holy Spirit God?

Brother Mike, I do not know what previous posts may have brought out; there are just too many for me to research at this time, but yes or no and a scripture to justify a "No" will suffice, and I'll get back to you. Thanks.

Not needed. I was trying to jump out of this but Free felt as if I did not stay around long enough and just out of respect for him I will post until we finally decided there is nothing else to post about that has not already been covered.

It's a statement of faith though, and those that made the Trinity Doctrine were very well educated men of God who had tons more revelation than a lot of folks. It's a bases that We believe there is only One God. Those great men whom I respect after reading many of the Old documents and some giving their life because of Rome believed much as Rome that there is ONE GOD. Some did not and believed Rome was just full of it.

At the time period that presents a very complex problem because if you say Jesus and Father are God but TWO then we war in a time where someone could possible loose their Life. Rome was at one time killing those that did not believe in the first written version of the Trinity though they stated it was not scripture but a mystery of faith.

The mystery is still the mystery that 3=1 and that God = triune. Each distinct person of the Trinity being their own person is also God as the 3 make 1. However the definition eats itself for what a God is because God is triune but the 3 separate and distinct persons of the Trinity being God are not, Even though God is defined as Triune.
There is your mystery part.

This is why I was about to jump out of this Thread. I am using the same arguments of those long before found with the Trinity Doctrine so they instead wrote that it was a mystery of Faith. (The Catholic Church uses those Wordings though) I am not using any other argument but ones that have written the Trinity found to be problematic and so labeled mystery.

So, to attempt to use scriptures to prove I don't know what I am talking about, then in effect your saying you know more than those that Wrote the Doctrine and were far brighter in understanding that I am.

It would be best to find a Mormon or JW................... They refute the deity of Jesus and attempt to use scripture. I am just using the problematic scriptures that have already been found long ago by those that wrote the Doctrine.

My stance is that God the Father honored Jesus long before the Earth was formed. Jesus said that. God also Called Jesus a servant but I suspect that it was that He was sent to serve. I count Two Divine Beings that are Father and Son. I don't see one just honoring a part of something that Trinity calls distinct and God to be combined to make God. That is the mystery part.

So, I just want to drop out of this thread. Else we do circles until someone realizes they can't defend the Trinity Doctrine completely without just throwing in the Mystery part that human reasoning can't fathom (Baptist)

Blessings. Mike.


Mike.

 

[Eugene]

Our Statement of Faith
We believe that there is only one God, who is eternal and immutable, and manifests Himself in three distinct Persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Is our Father God?
Is Jesus God?
Is the Holy Spirit God?

If your answer is no to any one of the questions above, scripture instead of history, or man's reasoning will suffice. Thanks and I'll get back to you.

 

[Bro Steve Winter]

Could you post the Version of the Trinity Doctrine your using that includes the Children of God also? I have never seen this version or concept concerning the Godhead and the many different Trinity Doctrines.

The trinity is a doctrine that was invented after the Apostles were gone from the Earth. Both the Roman Catholic Church and the Greek Orthodox claim to have invented it. Since it is a man made philosophy of polytheism it can change at the whim of the supporter.
The best way to explain it is the children's book "The Emperor's New Clothes"

I will reference a Bible study that I hope will be helpful.

Quoting from

Whether they philosophize about pies being sliced or apples being diced...

The bottom line is that they REJECT Jesus name baptism for the remission of sins as preached and practiced by the Apostles and ALL real Christians since then.

Regards,
Bro. Winter

 

[Guest]

The problem is what is the definition of god? I am taking the exact Hebrew or Greek word for the definition. Free is taking the Trinity definition. That is where the hang up comes.

Then you and [MENTION=142]Free[/MENTION] need to humble yourselves and understand that neither one of you know everything. Hebrew Greek word definition vs Trinity definition vs LOVE definition. Which one are you guys gonna choose. If there's anything I got from this thread, it's that I don't know everything, and that God's thoughts are higher than ours. Do you guys understand.

 

[Brother Mike]

The trinity is a doctrine that was invented after the Apostles were gone from the Earth. Both the Roman Catholic Church and the Greek Orthodox claim to have invented it. Since it is a man made philosophy of polytheism it can change at the whim of the supporter.
The best way to explain it is the children's book "The Emperor's New Clothes"

Steve is your hangup with the "Trinity" doctrine based on the way people are Baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Also Polytheism (Man Made) or not man made supports the Trinity concept the best that I have seen. The people that put together this Doctrine through the many years were very brilliant. I don't agree with it, but it's not because of some religious exercise of how someone gets saved. How else do you explain "ONE GOD"? I showed above the Holy Spirit defined "god" and there is more than one considered god by the Holy Spirit.

Also the first concept of "Trinity" did not come from Rome or any place that believed Jesus Is Lord. It was a scholarly positions by those that studied other Gods. It was Rome that officially adopted it but not in the Scholarly form as it rejected the Deity of Jesus.

Then you and @Free need to humble yourselves and understand that neither one of you know everything. Hebrew Greek word definition vs Trinity definition vs LOVE definition. Which one are you guys gonna choose. If there's anything I got from this thread, it's that I don't know everything, and that God's thoughts are higher than ours. Do you guys understand.

I don't dislike Free Urk. We have two different views that are not going to change. We share a lot of the same views. We do need to walk in love, but views can and do clash, that don't mean we are mad at each other. It just means we will agree or not in another thread.

Blessings.

 

[MarkT]

No matter how many scriptures one can be shown, they won't accept the concept of Father and Son both God, but not a piece of a God or part of some Triune God. To do so they have to look at God in a way they have not been taught. Besides, its the Christan Great mystery, the Trinity Doctrine and in the Doctrine itself it's protected by the Word mystery.

The OP suggest that Jesus may not be God. That is another Theory that is not JW theory or Jesus is a small time deity theory. He is the mediator. So what is to examine. The Word became flesh.

The Word became Flesh:

I mentioned this before about Doctrines. My WOF folk love to say Jesus is the Word of God. His name means the Word in Rev, but Is Jesus the actual word and why would I translate it that way? Lets say I did not have a Trinity Doctrine but translated that passage of scripture without it.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

So without the trinity Doctrine in the way, How do I read this. The word made something. In this case flesh and it was tied to Jesus being Begotten of God who was in the bosom of the father.

In all my other understanding of the Word, the Word creates things. The word made tree's, light and every thing else we see. Tree's and fish are not God though. We are begotten of the Word, born of incorruptible seed and each seed produces after it's own Kind. In the image of God but not God the father either.

In this case the Word begotten something else, It made flesh that came among us. That means God had to have spoken something to get Mary Pregnant as Jesus was born of Blood and water, through the Holy Spirit. The Word then was made flesh, and How the Word begotten something.

This does not make Jesus a part of God or the Word part of God, it makes Jesus the Son of God who came for us, and Came fully God like His Father is also God. Here is the scripture.

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

So there is your other witness as you don't take one scripture and make a doctrine out of it. The Word became flesh because by the spoken Word Jesus was begotten by the Word and it came to pass. Not
that Jesus is the literal Word or part of God that is the Word.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Whatever God says comes to pass, in this case Mary becomes pregnant.

With Trinity in the way though, I just make it mean what I want. Jesus is the literal, spiritual and physical Word, a Part of a Triune God. When you compare scriptures as we are told and not take have a scripture but find out How He was begotten of flesh, you find it was something God had spoken and it came to pass.

Jesus is still God though, Just not 1/3 part of a God, but always been with the Father and sent in these Last days for us.

As I said, if you want to believe in "Trinity" that is fine, One God only but you have to come to grips that even those that are firmly believing in this stated that the doctrine is problematic and you just have to have faith that there is but One God. It's a doctrine to be believed by faith. Every doctrine you have to believe by faith.

I do my best to just stick with scriptures and compare others, but it only works to the point of what God has revealed to me, so I am in the dark about a lot of things myself. I understand that fully.

Blessings.........
Mike.

We send images of ourselves all the time. Even images that talk. It would be foolish to think God can't. The difference is the images we send do not have life in themselves as Jesus did. Jesus was given life in himself. He thanked our Father for giving him life in himself as the Father has life in himself. Everything I'm saying is consistent with our Lord's teachings and the rest of the Bible. The appearance of God to Moses and Abraham; can a man see God and live? No. No one has ever seen God, only the Son.

In the old testament the LORD was the light, the workman by whom and through whom everything was made by God.

 

[Free]

[MENTION=142]Free[/MENTION] You still haven't told me why you disagree with [MENTION=7377]Brother Mike[/MENTION]. Tell me how polytheism goes against what you believe.

I have already done so and as I said last time, you even quoted it. Please go back and re-read.

Brother Mike believes that there is one God with 3 separate persons working as God deity. That's what you believe Free.

That's what I believe but it is not what Brother Mike believes.

 

[Free]

Tell me how polytheism goes against what you believe. Brother Mike believes that there is one God with 3 separate persons working as God deity.

I do, there is Only ONE God. The father, the Creator, the one that Saved us by sending His son. I believe all three are deity. The problem is what is the definition of god? I am taking the exact Hebrew or Greek word for the definition. Free is taking the Trinity definition. That is where the hang up comes.

No, I am using theos. Unless you have some other definition, we are using the same. Of course, context determines meaning, doesn't it?

I do love Brother free, I just don't understand how or why you would attempt to use scriptures to explain something that you believe when what you believe has already told you it can't be fully explained. It's as if Free has gotten this amazing revelation that nobody who even wrote the different Trinity Doctrines had.

As I have stated, I provided nothing that wasn't known to anyone else, and even then, I haven't given, and can't give, everything that was known to those who wrote the Trinity.

What I have been doing is proper biblical exegesis. The Trinity is ultimately a mystery but there certainly is enough in Scripture to know that God is triune. I believe Jesus is God in the flesh, God Incarnate. Why? Because that is what Scripture makes abundantly clear. Do I fully understand how that can be? Of course not but that is irrelevant to the truth of the matter.

Scripture states what it states and we either accept it all or we may as well throw it out.

Go back and read...................... these doctrines were made by some very brilliant people that love God. They have debated and covered all the scriptures mentioned here and lots, lots more. This is why they have included the mystery part to their own doctrine. They realized that there are many problematic scriptures that can't be explained, but it does not denote that God is 3 in 1. There is only ONE GOD. The people that wrote the doctrines are not stupid, some amazing revelation has come from these folks.

See, here you go contradicting yourself once again. You state, "There is only ONE GOD," yet several times in previous posts you state that Jesus is God and the Father is God, so that is two Gods. You can't have it both ways. Either there is one God or there are two Gods.

Free believes he somehow can defend a mystery. I believe that Free has never gone back and examined or spent the hours and hours reading on this that I have. I think it's something He was taught as true and given some scriptures to help support it.

Of course you think that. Everyone who has ever come into these forums and disagreed with sound doctrine, with orthodox Christian teaching, has claimed the very same thing. It comes from a prideful, self-righteous heart.

You know nothing of me nor the countless hours I actually have spent studying this. Not to mention all the Christians and scholars over the centuries who have done the same. So why do you think you're the only one who has studied?

I also can give scripture to support the Trinity Doctrine as it stands. I have to ignore a bunch though.

Can you give just one?

That is why the 3 in 1 is a mystery. I can have Jesus fully God, yet separate from His Father yet there only be ONE GOD. That is the mystery part to explain all those problematic scriptures. Since it's a mystery that the human mind can't comprehend then I can keep my Trinity Doctrine. Who's to say different?

To say that Jesus is fully God is to say that he is deity, just as the Father is deity. This is why I have stated it is better to state the Jesus is truly God.

I would like to see any scripture that you find problematic. But I would rather have a few problematic ones than deny a central, foundational teaching of the Bible such as monotheism.

 

[Brother Mike]

I would like to see any scripture that you find problematic. But I would rather have a few problematic ones than deny a central, foundational teaching of the Bible such as monotheism.

Before we go into a whole bunch of scriptures. You believe that the Holy Spirit did not Call Satan god? Do you believe Jesus called us gods?

If no you don't believe it then.

You believe the word god in the bible is always a name of a person, the ONE Triune god? Or, its a Greek Male noun defined by the Noun's title?

Blessings.

Mike.

 

[Eugene]

The bottom line is that they REJECT Jesus name baptism for the remission of sins as preached and practiced by the Apostles and ALL real Christians since then.

What has this to do with the OP? totopic

Is Jesus God? Thanks.