Is Jesus FULLY God & Praying

[westtexas]

but please provide scripture that states Jesus is truly man and also stating that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are separate and distinct from the Father, just to cover all basics.

1 John 4:2
2 John 7
Matt. 28:19

 

[Guest]

Ty.

 

[Brother Mike]

All other doctrines I have heard lack in explaining one or more points, or either ignore or do away with one or more altogether.

Lack points or ignore stuff.. Got it.

I have a question.

Question 1: What defines GOD? Is God A one Person God, or is God a triune God? Baptist Doctrine of Trinity defines God as 3 distinctive persons who are God.

If Answer is Triune, then continue to Question 2:

Question 2: There is one God that consist of 3 distinct persons all considered God. Trinity, right in the Doctrine define God as such. Since Each distinctive person is considered God as John said these 3 are ONE. Then Do you believe for each distinctive person who is God, they would have to also be Triune, because it can't be God unless there are 3 in 1?

If you said God is considered Triune according to the definition the Doctrine of Trinity gave, then you had to have said each person of the Godhead who is also God is Triune or else they can't be God. If you agree that God is considered Triune in Nature then continue to question 3:

Question 3: Since God has to be triune to be considered God and since you agree that each person that is distinct and also God that Make God are Triune. Then do you believe that we now have a mirror effect of multiple God's that have to all be triune to be God by Trinity's Definition of God?

If you did not make it through all the questions, then God is defined as ONE and separate. Jesus is God and the Father is God. There are TWO GODS! and the definition Trinity Gives for who God is, is WRONG and hence a mystery.

Because according to Trinity's definition and to be co-equal in all respect, then Jesus would also have to be triune in Nature to be considered God. The 3 that make Jesus would also have to be considered triune to make them equal and God to make Jesus and it does not stop.

Unless you consider that God can be just one. The Father and Son at the every start Both God making 2.

Blessings.

Mike.

 

[Bro Steve Winter]

Biblical proof that Jesus Christ is God.

Biblical proof that Jesus Christ is God.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

In this modern day and hour there are many opposing theories by many sincere, honest seekers regarding the identity of God. Some say that God is somehow three separate persons in a trinity but we need to consider the first of all the commandments.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

I know that there are many verses that many good people think teach separate persons in a "god squad" as it were, but we need to regard scripture in light of scripture. We need to respect Jesus in his statement regarding the first of all the commandments.

The identity of the God or gods being worshiped is not some side issue but is of foundational importance to your soul.

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Deuteronomy 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

One key to understanding the identity of God is to understand the simple concepts of flesh and spirit.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Though we humans (created in God's image) have body, soul and spirit we are not each "three separate persons". Though God manifested Himself as "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" he is not "three separate persons". When society finds someone who is three separate persons do they not lock them up or medicate them (for their protection and protection of society). God is NOT three separate persons!

Allow me to submit to you some foundational truths that I will document from scripture and then use to make my point.

1) God is a Spirit.

John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

2) God is holy.

I Samuel 2:2 [There is] none holy as the LORD: for [there is] none beside thee: neither [is there] any rock like our God.

3) God is a "Holy Spirit".

4) Jesus is the "Spirit of truth"

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

5) Jesus was "dwelling with them" and promised to be "in them".

John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

6) The "comforter" is the "Spirit of Christ"

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

7) The "Spirit of Christ" is the "Holy Spirit" is the "Spirit of Truth"

John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the
Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

8) The Spirit of God visited His creation robed in flesh as the "Son".

I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

9) The fullness of God is in Jesus Christ

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

10) Jesus IS the "everlasting Father".

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

11) Those who believe that Jesus is a "separate person" from the "Father" don't really know Jesus at all.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

We know that Peter was given the keys to the kingdom.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Peter used those keys from Jesus to unlock the kingdom of heaven. I really believe that those who think they can reject Peter without rejecting Jesus are not being honest with themselves or others.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Three thousand people baptised in Jesus Name hundreds of years before the trinity baptism was even invented by polytheists.

Is not the safe path the Bible path?

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

Psalms 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

I hope this helps...
Bro. Winter

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=142]Free[/MENTION] I think [MENTION=7377]Brother Mike[/MENTION] has done an awesome job explaining the trinity. We just have to understand where to end the discussion so we don't go insane.

 

[Brother Mike]

@Free I think @Brother Mike has done an awesome job explaining the trinity. We just have to understand where to end the discussion so we don't go insane.

Urk brother. These folks have some strong pride. Here is their Trinity Doctrine.

Baptist:

III. THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY IS A MYSTERY INSCRUTABLE AND INSOLUBLE TO FINITE MINDS; BUT IT IS NOT SELF-CONTRADICTORY.
We make no attempt to deny or to explain away the mystery of the doctrine of the Trinity. It is a high mystery that human minds can never fathom.

Roman Catholic:
"Catechism of the Catholic Church: The Dogma of the Holy Trinity"

The Trinity is considered to be a mystery of Christian faith.[

Methodist Trinity Doctrine- Methodist review

The Mystery of the Trinity Doctrine is not fatal to it's credibility

Lutheran Trinity Doctrine:
The Holy Trinity and Our Lutheran Liturgy - Concordia

Western theology rediscovered that the doctrine of Trinity, while indeed a mystery, is not a puzzle


Those that made the Doctrine URK, those that wrote it and made up the Trinity Concept Already tell us its a mystery. Amazing some here believe they can explain it clearly when the people they follow and had written the Trinity for their Church already said it can't be fully explained. I had been waiting for someone not full of pride to come out and admit that by their own doctrine, it was already declared a mystery and not fully explainable.

You see that URK........................ It's included in their own doctrine that it's a mystery, and hence not fully explainable. The people that have answered here think they know more than the ones that made the actual doctrine. Amazing, but I proved my point.

I think all the points that have been made could be made. Nobody has yet to explain what I said above about Trinity's definition of what GOD means because I already know in each doctrine that is the part they can't explain. I have done my homework...

I am jumping out of this. I don't see a reason to blast someones doctrine I just wish my Brothers and Sisters in Christ knew exactly what they believed and know where it came from. Not just believe things because someone said so, then in vain try to prove someone else's belief.

See you in other threads brother. I am out of this one. It's been discussed enough and I think all the points have been covered about the subject.

Blessings

Mike.

.

 

[Free]

All other doctrines I have heard lack in explaining one or more points, or either ignore or do away with one or more altogether.

Lack points or ignore stuff.. Got it.

I have a question.

Question 1: What defines GOD? Is God A one Person God, or is God a triune God? Baptist Doctrine of Trinity defines God as 3 distinctive persons who are God.

Triune. No need to ask, I have made that very clear.

If Answer is Triune, then continue to Question 2:

Question 2: There is one God that consist of 3 distinct persons all considered God. Trinity, right in the Doctrine define God as such. Since Each distinctive person is considered God as John said these 3 are ONE. Then Do you believe for each distinctive person who is God, they would have to also be Triune, because it can't be God unless there are 3 in 1?

If you said God is considered Triune according to the definition the Doctrine of Trinity gave, then you had to have said each person of the Godhead who is also God is Triune or else they can't be God. If you agree that God is considered Triune in Nature then continue to question 3:

No, that would be nonsense. That is akin to atheists asking "Who created God?"

Question 3: Since God has to be triune to be considered God and since you agree that each person that is distinct and also God that Make God are Triune.

No, each Person of the Trinity is not triune.

Then do you believe that we now have a mirror effect of multiple God's that have to all be triune to be God by Trinity's Definition of God?

No. As I stated, that would be nonsense. We have three Persons who are the one God, not three Gods who are one God.

If you did not make it through all the questions, then God is defined as ONE and separate. Jesus is God and the Father is God. There are TWO GODS!

No, that is polytheism which, as I have clearly shown, goes against the Bible. There was, is, and will be only one God.

and the definition Trinity Gives for who God is, is WRONG and hence a mystery.

On the contrary, as I have stated and shown, the doctrine of the Trinity best takes into account all that the Scriptures state about God.

Because according to Trinity's definition and to be co-equal in all respect, then Jesus would also have to be triune in Nature to be considered God. The 3 that make Jesus would also have to be considered triune to make them equal and God to make Jesus and it does not stop.

No. Your reasoning is in error because you are over analyzing it. Three Persons, one God.

Unless you consider that God can be just one. The Father and Son at the every start Both God making 2.

These two sentences together don't make sense. You seem to be asking me to consider that God is one but then say he is two. And this is something you've done throughout the thread. As I stated before, your position is contradictory and you have yet to clear that up.

 

[Free]

[MENTION=142]Free[/MENTION] I think [MENTION=7377]Brother Mike[/MENTION] has done an awesome job explaining the trinity.

How so?

 

[Guest]

@Free I think @Brother Mike has done an awesome job explaining the trinity.

How so?

He believes what you believe. You guys are just trying to win your own arguments and extend it.

 

[Free]

Urk brother. These folks have some strong pride.

I don't want to see any more comments such as this. The same could be said about you. It comes across as self-righteous and doesn't do anyone any good.

Here is their Trinity Doctrine.

Baptist:



Roman Catholic:
"Catechism of the Catholic Church: The Dogma of the Holy Trinity"


Methodist Trinity Doctrine- Methodist review

The Mystery of the Trinity Doctrine is not fatal to it's credibility

Lutheran Trinity Doctrine:
The Holy Trinity and Our Lutheran Liturgy - Concordia

Western theology rediscovered that the doctrine of Trinity, while indeed a mystery, is not a puzzle


Those that made the Doctrine URK, those that wrote it and made up the Trinity Concept Already tell us its a mystery.

No one here has denied that it is a mystery.

Amazing some here believe they can explain it clearly when the people they follow and had written the Trinity for their Church already said it can't be fully explained. I had been waiting for someone not full of pride to come out and admit that by their own doctrine, it was already declared a mystery and not fully explainable.

Your self-righteous attitude aside, no one here has claimed that it can be explained fully. You are completely mistaking what we can say about the Trinity with fully explaining it. I have gone no further than those who wrote the Trinity. The Trinity is based on sound biblical exegesis. If it wasn't, it would never have been written up in the first place.

You see that URK........................ It's included in their own doctrine that it's a mystery, and hence not fully explainable. The people that have answered here think they know more than the ones that made the actual doctrine. Amazing, but I proved my point.

Again, self-righteous. But, no, you didn't prove any point. You never once made the point, from what I saw, that people "here think they know more than the ones that made the actual doctrine."

In fact, we have only scratched the surface of the reasoning behind why the doctrine of the Trinity was first written. So, no, no one here thinks they know more than the ones who developed the doctrine of the Trinity.

I think all the points that have been made could be made.

Quite far from it, actually. You, however, have not cleared up a critical contradiction in your position.

Nobody has yet to explain what I said above about Trinity's definition of what GOD means because I already know in each doctrine that is the part they can't explain.

What are you referring to?

I have done my homework...

It doesn't seem that you have. Do not be so arrogant as to think you are the only one who has studied.

I am jumping out of this. I don't see a reason to blast someones doctrine I just wish my Brothers and Sisters in Christ knew exactly what they believed and know where it came from. Not just believe things because someone said so, then in vain try to prove someone else's belief.

Again, you are being arrogant in thinking you are the only one who has studied, that anyone who disagrees with you believes only "because someone said so."

See you in other threads brother. I am out of this one. It's been discussed enough and I think all the points have been covered about the subject.

Once again, all points have not been covered and you have not answered to all of the ones put to you.

 

[Free]

@Free I think @Brother Mike has done an awesome job explaining the trinity.

How so?

He believes what you believe. You guys are just trying to win your own arguments and extend it.

No, he's a polytheist which goes against the Bible. That is very far from what I believe.

 

[Guest]

@Free I think @Brother Mike has done an awesome job explaining the trinity.

How so?

He believes what you believe. You guys are just trying to win your own arguments and extend it.

No, he's a polytheist which goes against the Bible. That is very far from what I believe.

Polytheism does not go against the Bible. Please explain how it does. To me that's just a religious word so..

 

[Free]

He believes what you believe. You guys are just trying to win your own arguments and extend it.

No, he's a polytheist which goes against the Bible. That is very far from what I believe.

Polytheism does not go against the Bible. Please explain how it does. To me that's just a religious word so..

I wish you were only joking. Judaism and Christianity have always been monotheistic. Belief in only one God is foundational to both belief systems. I have already given several passages which show this to be the case:

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Isa 43:10-11, 10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. 11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Isa 44:6-8, 6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. 7 Who is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and set it before me, since I appointed an ancient people. Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen. 8 Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any."

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other."

Isa 45:21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.

Isaiah 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,

(All ESV).

And many more can be given. This is a truth about God which we must not stray from.

 

[Guest]

He believes what you believe. You guys are just trying to win your own arguments and extend it.

No, he's a polytheist which goes against the Bible. That is very far from what I believe.

Polytheism does not go against the Bible. Please explain how it does. To me that's just a religious word so..

I wish you were only joking. Judaism and Christianity have always been monotheistic. Belief in only one God is foundational to both belief systems. I have already given several passages which show this to be the case:

All you're saying to me is that you're preaching is based on religion and not love. What specifically about Brother Mike's trinity do you disagree with.

 

[By Grace]

Polytheism does not go against the Bible...

How can you claim to be a Christian, and then make a statement like that above?

To me that's just a religious word so.

Words say what they mean, and mean what they say, or else we are speaking Jabberwocky

JABBERWOCKY

Lewis Carroll
(from Through the Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There, 1872) [SIZE=+2]

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+2]"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"[/SIZE]


​

[SIZE=+2]I am not intending to call you out, but what you said above "just a religious word" is New Age relativism, and is antithetical to what God said in His word.
[/SIZE]
http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15597#sthash.JTj25AE3.dpuf

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=92259]By Grace[/MENTION] What exactly is polytheismism or whatever. I have no idea what it is. So teach me.

 

[Guest]

Religious words, religious preaching..please. it means nothing to me. His love surpasses all that crap.

 

[By Grace]

@By Grace What exactly is polytheismism or whatever. I have no idea what it is. So teach me.

YOU made the statement, therefore it is up to you to define how you used it.

However, I would like to refer you to the FIRST COMMANDMENT

Deuteronomy 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
​

It is not me with whom you argue, it is against what God clearly stated.

 

[Guest]

@By Grace What exactly is polytheismism or whatever. I have no idea what it is. So teach me.

YOU made the statement, therefore it is up to you to define how you used it.

That's because I'm not thinking in religious terms. You and Free are the ones that are putting down [MENTION=7377]Brother Mike[/MENTION]. I still haven't heard an explanation of why.

 

[jasoncran]

the shemah there has the connotation and a historical story of why it said. isreal was in Egypt where they worshipped the pantheon of Egypt. with horis,isis, and Osiris et all. the word for God there is the Heshem aka YHWH its important to get that as what it states. ONE GOD!