Is obedience a Work?

[chestertonrules]

Beaten with many stripes does not mean one will lose his salvation.
It means he will be chastened when he disobeys.

.

ie. Have a more difficult purgatory.

Have a more difficult life here on earth.

I'm sure we've all experienced the many things that go wrong when we walk in disobedience.

The passage in Luke 12 is about judgment when the master returns, not life on earth.

 

[duval]

Judgment at His appearing will be because of what we have done in this life---II Cor.510

God bless, duval

 

[WordSwordsman]

A person hears the gospel preached, is convicted of being a sinner outside the mercy of God. He falls on his face before Jesus in faith believing the shed blood of Jesus cleanses him of sin. There he is, now standing with a clear slate, nothing between him and God. He is water baptized, confirming his decision before witnesses. Shall he sin again and assume that same process clears him of future sins? If so, is he licensed to sin? Paul wrote in Romans 6:2 "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" John admonished in 1 John 3:8
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

So we must not by habit continue to sin once cleansed by Jesus' blood. At least two remedies enter in. Forgive one another of sin. Do Jesus' commandments.

To the question at hand. The first work is one of faith, enabled by the grace of God. He will not continually wink at deliberate sin in His children. Saving faith is a work in itself accomplished by Jesus on the cross, in that the new believer acts upon the promise of God introduced at that time and place. The second work is a continual one, working the righteousness of Christ in us daily enabled by the Holy Spirit to keep His commandments which cleanse and keep us clean. If truly found in Christ we are then willing partners to obey without struggle, in complete harmony and agreement with God, concerning His will for us. We cannot be deemed continual sinners once cleansed by the holy blood of Christ. The believer has passed, moved on, from being a habitual sinner, to being a saint of God. The saint is no longer a creature of sin, but of His righteousness.

Yes, entry into the family of God is by faith, but living the life of a saint of God is marked by signs aptly called works of righteousness. It isn't that the works of righteousness cause our salvation, but that becomes the main sign we are true followers. If a person says he follows Christ yet resides in sin, then that person is not a follower of Christ, but yet of of Satan.

 

[glorydaz]

The believer has passed, moved on, from being a habitual sinner, to being a saint of God. The saint is no longer a creature of sin, but of His righteousness.

Yes, entry into the family of God is by faith, but living the life of a saint of God is marked by signs aptly called works of righteousness. It isn't that the works of righteousness cause our salvation, but that becomes the main sign we are true followers. If a person says he follows Christ yet resides in sin, then that person is not a follower of Christ, but yet of of Satan.

Amen. Will we see a perfect walk? No, but we will manifest the fruit of the Spirit.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

We who walk after the Spirit are being transformed by the renewing of our mind. It's a life-long process...not as though we had already "attained".

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Cornelius]

Beaten with many stripes does not mean one will lose his salvation.
It means he will be chastened when he disobeys.

.

ie. Have a more difficult purgatory.

Have a more difficult life here on earth.

I'm sure we've all experienced the many things that go wrong when we walk in disobedience.

Amen

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 It is for chastening that ye endure; God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father chasteneth not?

 

[chestertonrules]

ie. Have a more difficult purgatory.

Have a more difficult life here on earth.

I'm sure we've all experienced the many things that go wrong when we walk in disobedience.

Amen

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 It is for chastening that ye endure; God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father chasteneth not?

[/quote]

That is a different passage about a different subject.

Luke 12 is talking about the return of Jesus and final judgment.

 

[glorydaz]

Amen

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 It is for chastening that ye endure; God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father chasteneth not?

That is a different passage about a different subject.

Luke 12 is talking about the return of Jesus and final judgment.

I see what you're talking about. Luke 12 is talking about waiting and preparing while here on this earth but the many stripes in this portion of scripture has to do with the unfaithful servant. It's the same as Matt. 24 when referring to the hypocrites.

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Here we see a servant not prepared...neither doing according to His will. This would be like the 10 virgins. The five not having oil (Holy Spirit), and the bridegroom returning before they were ready.

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

 

[chestertonrules]

Amen

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 It is for chastening that ye endure; God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father chasteneth not?

That is a different passage about a different subject.

Luke 12 is talking about the return of Jesus and final judgment.

I see what you're talking about. Luke 12 is talking about waiting and preparing while here on this earth but the many stripes in this portion of scripture has to do with the unfaithful servant. It's the same as Matt. 24 when referring to the hypocrites.

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Here we see a servant not prepared...neither doing according to His will. This would be like the 10 virgins. The five not having oil (Holy Spirit), and the bridegroom returning before they were ready.
[quote="Luke 12:47":25puq1va]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

[/quote:25puq1va]



I agree that all three are related.

All three tell us that if we are not ready when the master returns we will be punished.

 

[glorydaz]

I see what you're talking about. Luke 12 is talking about waiting and preparing while here on this earth but the many stripes in this portion of scripture has to do with the unfaithful servant. It's the same as Matt. 24 when referring to the hypocrites.

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Here we see a servant not prepared...neither doing according to His will. This would be like the 10 virgins. The five not having oil (Holy Spirit), and the bridegroom returning before they were ready.
[quote="Luke 12:47":1v13u5ag]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

I agree that all three are related.

All three tell us that if we are not ready when the master returns we will be punished.[/quote:1v13u5ag]

We're ready when we have our lamps filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit.
That's what being born again does. John the Baptist came to prepare the way for Christ and to make ready a people "prepared" for the Lord by the Holy Spirit.

And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

The anointing with oil is a symbol of the pouring forth of the Holy Spirit.

Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.

The annointing of the Holy Spirit...with power (fire at Pentecost), is how we're prepared for the trials we face. We are a people "prepared".

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

 

[chestertonrules]

[
We're ready when we have our lamps filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit.
That's what being born again does. John the Baptist came to prepare the way for Christ and to make ready a people "prepared" for the Lord by the Holy Spirit.

And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

The anointing with oil is a symbol of the pouring forth of the Holy Spirit.
[quote="Exodus 29:7":dixj1nug]Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.

The annointing of the Holy Spirit...with power (fire at Pentecost), is how we're prepared for the trials we face. We are a people "prepared".

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

[/quote:dixj1nug]



You can't deny that all three stories involve the ACTIONS of individuals, not their beliefs.

 

[glorydaz]

We're ready when we have our lamps filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit.
That's what being born again does. John the Baptist came to prepare the way for Christ and to make ready a people "prepared" for the Lord by the Holy Spirit.

And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

The anointing with oil is a symbol of the pouring forth of the Holy Spirit.
[quote="Exodus 29:7":x2tvpixi]Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.

The annointing of the Holy Spirit...with power (fire at Pentecost), is how we're prepared for the trials we face. We are a people "prepared".
[quote="Acts:10:38":x2tvpixi] How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

[/quote:x2tvpixi]



You can't deny that all three stories involve the ACTIONS of individuals, not their beliefs.[/quote:x2tvpixi]

Even man's righteousness is as filthy rags to God. We can only be faithful servants as we allow the Holy Spirit to work through us. No glory goes to man for simply doing his duty.

 

[chestertonrules]

[

Even man's righteousness is as filthy rags to God. We can only be faithful servants as we allow the Holy Spirit to work through us. No glory goes to man for simply doing his duty.

We can't please God without cooperating with his grace.
Without God, we can't. Without us, God won't.

 

[glorydaz]

[

Even man's righteousness is as filthy rags to God. We can only be faithful servants as we allow the Holy Spirit to work through us. No glory goes to man for simply doing his duty.

We can't please God without cooperating with his grace.
Without God, we can't. Without us, God won't.

I can agree with that...we surrender our will to Jesus so He can work through us.

 

[chestertonrules]

[

Even man's righteousness is as filthy rags to God. We can only be faithful servants as we allow the Holy Spirit to work through us. No glory goes to man for simply doing his duty.

We can't please God without cooperating with his grace.
Without God, we can't. Without us, God won't.

I can agree with that...we surrender our will to Jesus so He can work through us.

:amen

 

[Cornelius]

[

Even man's righteousness is as filthy rags to God. We can only be faithful servants as we allow the Holy Spirit to work through us. No glory goes to man for simply doing his duty.

We can't please God without cooperating with his grace.
Without God, we can't. Without us, God won't.

I can agree with that...we surrender our will to Jesus so He can work through us.

Will His working through us result in obedience to Him ?

 

[chestertonrules]

[


Will His working through us result in obedience to Him ?

Obedience is an act of will.

If we are coerced to do something it is not an act of obedience.

Obedience comes from voluntary submission to God's will.

 

[WordSwordsman]

When my grand-daughter Kathryn was only 4, I dreaded letting her into my vege garden, though she loved it so. She fell in love with fresh grape tomatoes and baby bell peppers. I could be assured she would trample some precious plant, most surely one of those one-of-a-kind ones like the heirloom savory. It wasn't that she hated a single plant, but just had not matured enough to value them enough. By age 5 she became, after much training, like a little fairy floating among the treasures. She had gained great respect for them over a long winter, missing those sweet treats. By planting some of them she took ownership. By watering she learned to care. By fertilizing she learned to prosper them. By transplanting Lady Bugs and some Praying Mantis she learned to protect.

There are some good life lessons in that. She will turn 6 in the Fall, and has submitted her plant list, and wants to buy extra predator bugs since they were scarce last year. She wants to grew enough for another list... of friends and family. Blessing doesn't just happen. Anything in life worth having is deserving of some effort on our part to grow it beyond our own little world.

I lead homeless people to Christ, well, not only them, but mostly the most down and out, especially those freshly unemployed for the first time. It's a very frightening thing to lose everything gained in life up until today. But I find most don't have much opportunity to grow in Christ and overcome sin because they have yet to take ownership of their own responsibilities. Meanwhile all sorts of fears enter in and take over so easily. They must learn it's one thing to discover Jesus by faith, and quite another to mature into obedience and the blessings thereof.

I find it is extremely important for any Christian to enter into works of righteousness after enjoying the holiday season of being freshly born again. I liken that to the importance of supporting one's self and especially one's family if that responsibility has been assumed. It's unreasonable to assume anyone can do their share unless working at a paying job, and I believe impossible to expect a new Christian to prosper in the faith unless doing the commandments of Christ. Of course that is a work. But Jesus said you will do those thing because you love Him. A daddy that loves his family will devote however many hours it takes to provide for them. He will not sit around hoping they will be fed, clothed, housed, etc, but will see to those necessities. Like a robin feeding it's young, he will not worry about his own stomach, what to wear. A Christian that loves Jesus will do His commandments, not regretting the labor, not avoiding the works. Have you ever noticed a nest of new birds starving to death? Someone, however hard the parent birds work, however sour the weather becomes, they always get enough to grow up and fly away. Regardless of how much effective works we do, God blesses. That proves to me His works are not required for salvation, else some minimum be required. What works of righteousness we are included in are all to His glory. Do we them by our own righteousness? No. We have a new righteousness not from ourselves, imputed by Christ Jesus and His works. Were those truly His works? No. Jesus did nothing apart from the words and works of His Father God. We do well to always give credit above us, not of our own means. I will not say "I made it by myself, by my education, by my strength, and made it all possible for my children." No. The Lord made my way and that of my children.

The work of obedience is not a hard one, but one that shows the most love, one act of obedience to the Lord at a time. It is work that is tasted sweet and has a sublime odor enjoyed by all who inhale of it. It is what generates joy each day, so spread the joy. Just obey Jesus.

 

[Cornelius]

[


Will His working through us result in obedience to Him ?

Obedience is an act of will.

If we are coerced to do something it is not an act of obedience.

Obedience comes from voluntary submission to God's will.

Is this what you are talking about ?

Php 2:13 for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

 

[Cornelius]

When my grand-daughter Kathryn was only 4, I dreaded letting her into my vege garden, though she loved it so. She fell in love with fresh grape tomatoes and baby bell peppers. I could be assured she would trample some precious plant, most surely one of those one-of-a-kind ones like the heirloom savory. It wasn't that she hated a single plant, but just had not matured enough to value them enough. By age 5 she became, after much training, like a little fairy floating among the treasures. She had gained great respect for them over a long winter, missing those sweet treats. By planting some of them she took ownership. By watering she learned to care. By fertilizing she learned to prosper them. By transplanting Lady Bugs and some Praying Mantis she learned to protect.

There are some good life lessons in that. She will turn 6 in the Fall, and has submitted her plant list, and wants to buy extra predator bugs since they were scarce last year. She wants to grew enough for another list... of friends and family. Blessing doesn't just happen. Anything in life worth having is deserving of some effort on our part to grow it beyond our own little world.

I lead homeless people to Christ, well, not only them, but mostly the most down and out, especially those freshly unemployed for the first time. It's a very frightening thing to lose everything gained in life up until today. But I find most don't have much opportunity to grow in Christ and overcome sin because they have yet to take ownership of their own responsibilities. Meanwhile all sorts of fears enter in and take over so easily. They must learn it's one thing to discover Jesus by faith, and quite another to mature into obedience and the blessings thereof.

I find it is extremely important for any Christian to enter into works of righteousness after enjoying the holiday season of being freshly born again. I liken that to the importance of supporting one's self and especially one's family if that responsibility has been assumed. It's unreasonable to assume anyone can do their share unless working at a paying job, and I believe impossible to expect a new Christian to prosper in the faith unless doing the commandments of Christ. Of course that is a work. But Jesus said you will do those thing because you love Him. A daddy that loves his family will devote however many hours it takes to provide for them. He will not sit around hoping they will be fed, clothed, housed, etc, but will see to those necessities. Like a robin feeding it's young, he will not worry about his own stomach, what to wear. A Christian that loves Jesus will do His commandments, not regretting the labor, not avoiding the works. Have you ever noticed a nest of new birds starving to death? Someone, however hard the parent birds work, however sour the weather becomes, they always get enough to grow up and fly away. Regardless of how much effective works we do, God blesses. That proves to me His works are not required for salvation, else some minimum be required. What works of righteousness we are included in are all to His glory. Do we them by our own righteousness? No. We have a new righteousness not from ourselves, imputed by Christ Jesus and His works. Were those truly His works? No. Jesus did nothing apart from the words and works of His Father God. We do well to always give credit above us, not of our own means. I will not say "I made it by myself, by my education, by my strength, and made it all possible for my children." No. The Lord made my way and that of my children.

The work of obedience is not a hard one, but one that shows the most love, one act of obedience to the Lord at a time. It is work that is tasted sweet and has a sublime odor enjoyed by all who inhale of it. It is what generates joy each day, so spread the joy. Just obey Jesus.

Great post !

 

[glorydaz]

I can agree with that...we surrender our will to Jesus so He can work through us.

Will His working through us result in obedience to Him ?

You must have missed the "surrender our will".
If we surrender our will, we will be obeying.