Is our belief in who Jesus is, necessary for salvation

[Guest]

Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

You are using a parable that Jesus used to teach forgiveness. This is hardly evidence that other people besides God should be worshipped.

Please understand that I was speaking as a believer - a follower of Christ - therefore, the only worship that I should give is to the Lord God. And God is the only one worthy of worship.

For example, the story of Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego.

 

[mutzrein]

You are using a parable that Jesus used to teach forgiveness. This is hardly evidence that other people besides God should be worshipped.

Please understand that I was speaking as a believer - a follower of Christ - therefore, the only worship that I should give is to the Lord God. And God is the only one worthy of worship.

For example, the story of Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego.

Do you think Jesus would use a false premise to convey truth?

 

[Guest]

Do you think Jesus would use a false premise to convey truth?

Mutz, the only false premise is that you are attempting to use a parable about forgivness to attempt to prove something else.

While I hesitate to go here, since you are using this parable out of it's intended purpose - the NASB translates "worship" to "falling on the groun" and "laying prostrate" - this signifies respect and humbling before the king - not necessarily worship.

Again, as a follower of Christ - the only one worthy of worship is God. He demands worship; He deserves worship; and decidely He alone is worhy of it.

You have also not commented on the verses that I have provided to show that God alone is worhy of worship and that there are clear examples in the Sciprtures showing believers who would not worship anything or anyone else besides God.

 

[AVBunyan]

Have anyone never noticed when Jesus tells Christians, to keep the commandments of God, that He includes the word LOVE, with the word Commandments ?

You couldn't find an age of grace "Christian" in the gospels if you stayed up all night with an electron microscope. What you find in the Gospels are Sabbath keeping, pork abstaining Jews.

Mercy - they were not even called Christians until mid-Acts.

 

[Imagican]

Why did Jesus tell Peter, "Get thee behind me, satan"?

To point out to Peter that it was NOT their will that NEED be done but that of God. And that Peter was allowing 'temptation' to 'creep' into his walk. Satan, I'm sure, tried EVERYTHING within his power to cause Christ to 'fail'. Christ was simply TELLING Satan, (manifest through the words of Peter), that he COULD NOT offer ANY temptation that would lead Him away from His purpose.

??

MEC

 

[Silverchild79]

hmm I can't even vote

This was actually the main basis of my being Agnostic for 8 years. I've met so many Buddists, Muslims, Jews all who follow their paths just as strictly as any christian I've EVER met. They think they are right and we are wrong, and I'm just as mortal and foulable as they.

I eventually decided that bellieving in salvation through Christ and Christianity was right for me

as for others? Judge not, it's for God alone to decide IMO

 

[Imagican]

J,

I wasn't using my statement to 'justify' ANYTHING. I was simply offering that there ARE MANY things that both YOU and I worship. That there ARE MANY that simply DON'T even REALIZE it just goes to show how 'lost' the 'world' truly is.

The difference between me and 'these' is that I am HONEST enough to realize the things within my 'walk' that are NOT conducive to as 'tight' a bound with God as IS possible when we are capable of eliminating these 'things'.

I have met MANY that would claim that they would 'lay down their lives' for another. Yet, I have NOT met one that offers this statement in 'TRUTH'. For verily would a man lay down his own life for a 'loved one' MUCH LESS would he be likely to lay it down for a 'stranger'.

So, we find ourselves FORCED to face our 'weaknesses'. Some are willing to 'admit' them, others choose to remain in a state of COMPLETE denial.

Which are YOU j?

I ask this for you seem to have found my offering 'humorous'. I was simply trying to point out to those that are UNAWARE of 'what' worship IS. That there be MANY that do NOT understand is obvious in that MOST don't even know what they 'worship'.

j, I ask you this:

The Catholics bow down to wooden statues of a man that they call God. Is this 'truth'? Is the 'statue' that they call God, God? And I offer that when you spend your 'time' and 'devotion' to ANYTHING that you ARE 'worshiping' that 'thing' that you adore enough to allow IT to take away the TIME that you SHOULD be offering to God and your neighbors.

Paul offered it as PLAINLY as possible. He stated that he would have YOU and I be AS HE WAS; celibate. WHY? Answer this question and you will PLAINLY 'see' what I offer to BE TRUTH. Unable to answer it and it will purely show that the 'lack' of an accurate answer is due to a 'lack' of understanding.

And BEFORE I am accused, as Mutz was, of 'taking something out of context', let me offer this too;

WHAT do you 'think' Paul spent MOST of his 'time' DOING? Recon he was a 'chess' player? Cards? backgammon? Maybe a 'tomb painter'? Yes, his statement WAS concerning 'marriage'. But the question is WHY the statement was made, NOT what he said.

So j, laugh if you wish. But we worship that which we adore. THAT is why we were warned about worship. That is EXACTLY why Christ told the RICH MAN to SELL what he had and follow HIM. And that IS exactly WHY the rich man walked away in sorrow. He WORSHIPED that which he OWNED TOO MUCH to leave it behind.

That there are MANY that 'claim' to be Christians and 'believe' that it's OK to 'serve themselves' rather than God is to be expected. These ARE the 'lukewarm' Christians that Christ has already WARNED about their day of judgement.

Like with ANY ailment, one must understand the symptoms BEFORE they can treat the ailment. One MUST understand WHAT a 'Christian' IS BEFORE they could POSSIBLY BE ONE.

MEC

 

[jgredline]

Deuteronomy 6:4 does not deny the Trinity but rather establishes one of the planks of the Trinity: there is one God. It is important to understand that Scripture interprets Scripture. By interpreting Deuteronomy 6:4 in conjunction with other verses, we learn that the one true God is triune in personality (2 Cor. 13:14), i.e., there are three persons in this one nature.
Each of the three persons of the Trinity is called God in Scripture: the Father (1 Peter 1:2), the Son (John 20:28), and the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3–4). Moreover, each possesses the attributes of deityâ€â€including omnipresence (Ps. 139:7; Matt. 28:20; Heb. 4:13), omniscience (Matt. 9:4; Rom. 11:33; 1 Cor. 2:10), and omnipotence (Matt. 28:18; Rom. 15:19; 1 Peter 1:5).
Three-in-oneness within the Godhead is clear in such passages as Matthew 28:19: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit†(niv). The word name is singular in the Greek, indicating that there is one God. But there are three distinct persons within the Godhead, as indicated by the three definite articles in the Greekâ€â€the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This three-in-oneness is also reflected in 2 Corinthians 13:14. So, there is only one God, but there is a plurality within this unityâ€â€a plurality of persons within the unity of nature.

Geisler, N.

 

[Jay T]

J,

I wasn't using my statement to 'justify' ANYTHING. I was simply offering that there ARE MANY things that both YOU and I worship. That there ARE MANY that simply DON'T even REALIZE it just goes to show how 'lost' the 'world' truly is.

Yes, there are 'MANY' in the modern Christian world that do not understand the the total Plan of Salvation either.......because of a lack of Old Testament Knowledge.

The difference between me and 'these' is that I am HONEST enough to realize the things within my 'walk' that are NOT conducive to as 'tight' a bound with God as IS possible when we are capable of eliminating these 'things'.

I have met MANY that would claim that they would 'lay down their lives' for another. Yet, I have NOT met one that offers this statement in 'TRUTH'. For verily would a man lay down his own life for a 'loved one' MUCH LESS would he be likely to lay it down for a 'stranger'.

So, we find ourselves FORCED to face our 'weaknesses'. Some are willing to 'admit' them, others choose to remain in a state of COMPLETE denial.

Which are YOU j?

Perhaps I have more weaknesses than most people.
After all, the more knowledge one gains from the Bible, the more defects that person sees iin their own lives.
The more knowledge a person gains of the Scriptures, the more responsibilites one inherits to impart to others.

I ask this for you seem to have found my offering 'humorous'. I was simply trying to point out to those that are UNAWARE of 'what' worship IS. That there be MANY that do NOT understand is obvious in that MOST don't even know what they 'worship'.

True enough......as it is written:
4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God,

j, I ask you this:

The Catholics bow down to wooden statues of a man that they call God. Is this 'truth'? Is the 'statue' that they call God, God? And I offer that when you spend your 'time' and 'devotion' to ANYTHING that you ARE 'worshiping' that 'thing' that you adore enough to allow IT to take away the TIME that you SHOULD be offering to God and your neighbors.

Idols can take on many forms.
Sports, for example, are idols to many who call themselves Christians.
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Paul offered it as PLAINLY as possible. He stated that he would have YOU and I be AS HE WAS; celibate. WHY? Answer this question and you will PLAINLY 'see' what I offer to BE TRUTH. Unable to answer it and it will purely show that the 'lack' of an accurate answer is due to a 'lack' of understanding.

And BEFORE I am accused, as Mutz was, of 'taking something out of context', let me offer this too;

Don't worry about context.....as those who accuse one of doing that, do so themselves.

WHAT do you 'think' Paul spent MOST of his 'time' DOING? Recon he was a 'chess' player? Cards? backgammon? Maybe a 'tomb painter'? Yes, his statement WAS concerning 'marriage'. But the question is WHY the statement was made, NOT what he said.

So j, laugh if you wish. But we worship that which we adore. THAT is why we were warned about worship. That is EXACTLY why Christ told the RICH MAN to SELL what he had and follow HIM. And that IS exactly WHY the rich man walked away in sorrow. He WORSHIPED that which he OWNED TOO MUCH to leave it behind.

The commandment: "Thou shalt not Covet" is perhaps the most broken commandment there is !

That there are MANY that 'claim' to be Christians and 'believe' that it's OK to 'serve themselves' rather than God is to be expected. These ARE the 'lukewarm' Christians that Christ has already WARNED about their day of judgement.

Like with ANY ailment, one must understand the symptoms BEFORE they can treat the ailment. One MUST understand WHAT a 'Christian' IS BEFORE they could POSSIBLY BE ONE.

MEC

And that is the only purpose of the commandments of God.....to point out where we have gone astray from God.
And once this is understood, then we go to Jesus Christ, praying for forgiveness, and to lead us back into the right paths, that He originally wanted us to follow, in the first place.

 

[Imagican]

JayT,

I 'appreciate' your comments. I recognize that you ARE a man that seeks to understand 'truth'.

Now, let me offer that the comments that I had made with the heading 'j', were directed at 'the other' j, 'jg'. Sorry that I didn't use his whole 'name'. If you will 'go back and read what he stated you will see why I offered that which I did.

No problem that you decided to reply to my offering. I simply wish to 'point out' that my statements were NOT directed at JayT, but jg.

Blessings my brother,

MEC

 

[jgredline]

JayT,

I 'appreciate' your comments. I recognize that you ARE a man that seeks to understand 'truth'.

Now, let me offer that the comments that I had made with the heading 'j', were directed at 'the other' j, 'jg'. Sorry that I didn't use his whole 'name'. If you will 'go back and read what he stated you will see why I offered that which I did.

No problem that you decided to reply to my offering. I simply wish to 'point out' that my statements were NOT directed at JayT, but jg.

Blessings my brother,

MEC

Mec
I saw that and thought they were directed at Jay T...iN that case let me respond in a little bit, during my lunch hour

 

[Imagican]

: ...I will take my time in answering this, but talk about trying to justify something.....

I believe that my reply to J was in reference to this noted post above.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

And JayT,

Let me offer that I do NOT disagree with your comments. I believe that it is OBVIOUS from your post in reply that you DO recognize the EXTREMITY that the 'churches' have veered from an understanding of WHAT worship IS and what THEY worship.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct in that MANY that 'claim' to be 'Christians' DO worship MANY things other than God. Nascar, basketball, football, SOAP OPERAS, etc.......... But you certainly CAN'T convince THEM of this FACT. For some of the churches, in order to maintain NUMBERS, have even stooped to 'superbowl parties', and some even encourage such activities as YOGA, singles groups, etc.......... Whatever it takes to keep the 'congregation' GROWING.

PEOPLE pleasers are what MANY churches have turned into. Pushing aside that which is pure and righteous and introducing that which is PURE VANITY. Self indulgence seems to be the method of todays churches in their quest to maintain NUMBERS.

MEC

 

[jgredline]

Let me offer an 'answer' to this question concerning the word 'worship'.

This ought to be good....

Many seem UNAWARE of what the word 'truly' means. To worship IS to adore. To adore IS to 'love'.

Lets look at the word worship from a biblical point of view....

Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary Topic Finder: Worship
Worship of God
Human beings were created to be worshipers (worship; to be great; glorify; magnify) of God.
Praise (bless; commend; hallelujah) and thanksgiving, bowing before God, and confessing his goodness in an attitude of reverence and awe (fear) are important elements of acceptable worship. Rejoicing in song and singing psalms, hymns, and melodies are major parts of worship

Harper's Bible Dictionary: Worship
Worship
worship, the attitude and acts of reverence to a deity. The term ‘worship’ in the ot translates the Hebrew word meaning ‘to bow down, prostrate oneself,’ a posture indicating reverence and homage given to a lord, whether human or divine. The concept of worship is expressed by the term ‘serve.’ In general, the worship given to God was modeled after the service given to human sovereigns; this was especially prominent in pagan religions. In these the deity’s image inhabited a palace (temple) and had servants (priests) who supplied food (offered sacrifices), washed and anointed and clothed it, scented the air with incenses, lit lamps at night, and guarded the doors to the house. Worshipers brought offerings and tithes to the deity, said prayers and bowed down, as one might bring tribute and present petitions to a king. Indeed the very purpose of human existence, in Mesopotamian thought, was to provide the gods with the necessities of life.


Easton's Bible Dictionary: Worship
Worship  homage rendered to God which it is sinful (idolatry) to render to any created being (Ex. 34:14; Isa. 2:8). Such worship was refused by Peter (Acts 10:25,26) and by an angel (Rev. 22:8,9).

Even wikipedia
Worship
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Taken during a Hindu prayer ceremony on the eve of Diwali.Worship usually refers to specific acts of religious praise, honour, or devotion, typically directed to a supernatural being such as a god or goddess. It is the informal term in English for what sociologists of religion call cultus, the body of practices and traditions that correspond to theology.

Religious worship may be performed individually, in informally organized groups, or as part of an organized service with a designated leader (as in a church, synagogue, temple, or mosque). In its older sense in the English language of worthiness or respect (Anglo-Saxon worthscripe), worship may sometimes refer to actions directed at members of higher social classes (such as lords or monarchs) or to particularly esteemed persons (such as a lover).

So mec...Tell me again what worship means....

There IS worship reserved for God ALONE.

yes, I finally agree with you...

And there is OTHER acceptable 'worship'. We ARE to love, (worship), EACH OTHER as we love, (worship), ourselves.

Please provide Book, chapter and verse to prove this... LOL

BUT, we are to worship God ABOVE these two.

We are to worhip God and God alone....
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved imageâ€â€any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.Mec...Let me know if you need commentary on this verse. It is found in Exodus 20....

And we are CERTAINLY to worship, (love), Christ. And there IS NOTHING in what is offered in the scripture concerning the man 'worshiping' Christ that states that He was 'worshiped AS God'.

Mec
We are to worship Jesus because ''he is GOD''

Matt 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ â€Â

Here is one more for you Mec........

34 They answered and said to him, “You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?†And they cast him out.
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?â€Â
36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?â€Â
37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.â€Â
38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!†And he worshiped Him.
39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.â€Â
40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?â€Â
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.

Here this man is worshiping God, ''Jesus''

How many among us offer their worship to their wives and children? Their parents? It is amazing how many among us are LIKELY to worship such things as their HOMES, their CARS, their MONEY, their CHURCHES, their PASTORS. Yet these same will deny the adoration that they offer for such 'things' as being 'worship'. That is the 'nature' of the flesh. To 'worship' the things of 'this WORLD', and basically IGNORE their Creator.
To place 'things' in the stead of their Creator and makes gods of 'things' rather than that which matters MOST.

I am guessing you are speaking of your self, right mec....

So, that there were those that worshiped Christ and that we are to STILL offer such worship adds NOTHING to this 'Christ = God'. For Christ IS worthy of our worship. I worship Christ. But as The Son of God rather than God Himself. And I offer prayer IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST who IS the intercessor between myself and my God. But my prayer is TO God, the Father of Jesus Christ and MY FATHER as well.

yOUR words are smooth, but they condridict themselves....By your definitions, you are worshiping another jesus.....because your definition that u offered in the begining of this post proves that....

We were NEVER commanded to ONLY 'worship' God. We were told to worship NOTHING BEFORE our One True God. See how 'twisted' the churches can 'alter' that which has been offered?

Spoken like a true un believer.....
I suggest you read and study the 10 commandments....
you know full well what they mean......
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Do you really believe that God will share his glory with any other god?

MEC

Like i said :

 

[Imagican]

To 'bow down', or 'to SERVE'. That you would be 'blind' to the ACTUAL 'act' of 'worship' just goes to show how FAR the 'traditionalists' have VEERED from the TRUTH.

We were told that if YOUR EYE causes you offense, CUT IT OUT. Better to be 'partially BLIND' than be LOST.

Now, why do you reacon that IS?

Now, let's see.................... Hmmmm, .......... Oh Kay! How many HOURS do YOU personally spend 'watching TV' each week? Listening to music? Sports, exercise, Karate lessons, movies, activities in general?

I await your reply to these questions. I will concentrate on a reply to the 'rest' of your post.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

j,

Let's just 'see' if you truly do possess wisdom as offered through scripture And the Holy Spirit.

Christ was asked, 'what IS the MOST important commandment'? His reply, ''Love GOD with ALL your heart, mind and soul''. And He didn't STOP here. He WENT on.........'AND love your neighbor AS YOURSLEF'. Neat stuff, huh? But He didn't even END here. He went on.....''And ALL the law and ALL the prophets hang on THESE TWO''.

Now, we have HERE, the COMMANDMENTS of God as related to US by Christ. Christ did NOT state that we are to 'worship' God with ALL our heart mind and soul. He PLAINLY stated LOVE.

You choose to try and define 'worship' on the basis of the 'wisdom' of men rather than that which is offered through The Spirit. Why is that? Why would YOU not understand what I have offered JUST as it was offered BY CHRIST? Why is it that 'your' understanding veers from that which has been offered?

So, through the WORDS of Christ offered above, you TELL ME what worship MEANS. NO, I don't want 'Webster's definition' for this MEANS NOTHING EXCEPT to those that are ONLY capable of comprehending according to THE WORLD. Using the statement of Christ concering the MOST IMPORTANT COMMANDMENT, you TELL ME, what IS worship?

Now let's see just how WISE you really are.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

j,

You accsue ME of worshiping 'another Christ' while ALL I have EVER done is STATE outright that I worship Christ AS THE SON OF GOD. I would 'take offense' except for the FACT that what you state is most likely TRUTH.

For an understanding of WHO Christ TRULY is IS paramount to being able to worship the TRUE Christ.

You know, Satan WILL become manifest IN THE FLESH on this planet one day. And GUESS WHO he will emulate. Who he will PRETEND to be. And guess what the World will do? Bow to this 'imitation christ'. Worship him AS God. Looks like it won't be a difficult task to accomplish. The ROOTS have already been firmly established through the 'churches' who sit RIGHT THIS VERY MOMENT awaiting this 'manifestation'.

IF my words ARE 'smooth' as you accuse, perhaps there is a 'reason'. The 'truth' ALWAYS 'sounds' good, EVEN to those that think it but foolishness. The difference in HOW it is 'accepted' is UTTERLY dependant upon the abililty that has 'been offered' to UNDERSTAND.

I PROMISE you that 'my words' are BUT FOOLISHNESS to those that 'live FOR this World'. Been there, done that.

j, I have associates that are VERY EDUCATED individuals. A number of them have Phds. We often sit and 'talk'. My testimony and witness is ALL but LOST on these. For the words that I offer bounce off ears that are TOO brilliant to comprehend something SO SIMPLE. Two of my closest associations are a Physics professor and the other has a Masters Degree in Mechanical Engineering AND a Phd in Medicine, (He's a pediatrician). NEITHER of these will accept even the REMOTEST possibilty of God, Our Creator, MUCH LESS His Son.

So I have dealt with those that choose the 'understanding of this world' over ANYTHING pertaining to God or His Son. These guys 'put up' with me and have NO doubts as to my ability to debate issues right along side them. But what they question is MY SANITY. For to them, I MUST BE NUTS. And what consolation it TRULY IS. For if these 'thought' ANYTHING else, I would question whether I could POSSIBLY be following the TRUTH rather than that which the REST of the WORLD follows.

I point this out for ONE REASON. To explain that your accusations of the 'slickness' of my words mean little if ANYTHING to me other than to question the WHY of your accusations. I am NOT here to 'discredit YOU personally'. I'll leave that up to YOU yourself. I am here to offer what has been so FREELY given to me in the hopes that there MAY be 'someone else' that is able to 'put aside' the 'thinking of the WORLD' and open their hearts up to that which TRANSENDS ANYTHING 'imaginable' in the minds of men.

You 'seem' to be 'more concerned' with 'how BRIGHT' someone may perceive you 'to be' than offering substance that is capable of MOVING others, (except to 'anger' maybe). I do not offer this to insult but to instruct. If you are 'unaware' then perhaps it would be 'wise' to 'step back' and 'take a look at yourself'. If you are perfectly content with your attitude towards your brothers and sisters then IGNORE my comments.

And when I 'see' others that can't even treat their brothers and sisters as their 'brothers and sisters' I MUST question their ability to 'lead' a 'flock' of those truly searching for that which matters most. And at this point I must question 'where' the flaw 'originates' from. For LOVE is the FIRST thing that one MUST learn in order to 'even consider themselves' a 'follower' of the TRUE Christ.

You have 'witnessed' my 'feelings' toward the CC. They are NOT 'hate' or 'envy' or 'ANYTHING' other than an understanding that IF these were TRULY inspired by God they could have NEVER treated their brothers and sisters in the 'fashion' which they 'CHOSE'. Their attitude of 'kill em all' and 'let God sort em out' is ANYTHING but the LOVE offered as a 'TEACHER and GUIDE' by Our Lord, Jesus Christ. For, if this 'spriit' that would condemn rather than FORGIVE WERE that offered by GOD, then there would BE NO HUMAN LIFE ON THIS PLANET.

The point of the above paragraph? ANYONE that claims to be 'following Christ' and is UNABLE to offer 'that SAME LOVE' is obviously 'fooling themselves' and attempting to 'fool others' as well.

Regards,

MEC

 

[jgredline]

Mec
OK, You wtote alot, and put alot of thought into what you wrote, but you still did not prove your point. Lets take a look at the scripture you quoted.....

Christ was asked, 'what IS the MOST important commandment'? His reply, ''Love GOD with ALL your heart, mind and soul''. And He didn't STOP here. He WENT on.........'AND love your neighbor AS YOURSLEF'. Neat stuff, huh? But He didn't even END here. He went on.....''And ALL the law and ALL the prophets hang on THESE TWO''.

I do not read where it says we are to ''worship'' OUR neighbor AS YOURSLEF....i do read where it says we are to love our neighbor as ourself....But not worship....

Mec....
true worship is simply to be obediant to God and his Word.....That is it...No fancy words or presentation, but simply that, for you see if one does this all else will fall into place....The reason I presented those definitions of worship is to show you that no matter how you look at worship, you had your OWN definition of the what worship is....

Mec...I will say this to you. God made people many differant ways....He made women far different that men, thank God.....
Looking at the way the few people voted, there are many who believe differantly than you or mutz does, but to avoid drama, they will say nothing....and thats ok, because there are people who will do the confrontational work....So do I rub people the wrong way....Perhaps but its is those who are presented with the truth, but do not want to hear it....But going by all the great PM's i recieve, keeps me going...''praise Jesus''

Lets take a look at the OP.... ''Is our belief in who Jesus is, necessary for salvation?''

You see mec, I will not ''Love you'' into hell.... No I love you enough to be honest with you...To tell you that only God can forgive sins....This is why Jesus death on the Cross was the perfect sacrifice....Only God can atone for the sins of man.....No my friend, you know full well ''Jesus is God''...Jesus himself said this ''I am the alpha and the omega''....The beginning and the end....

Jesus speaks of those who will not see him and will yet believe, and John immediately tells the reader that he recorded the events written in his gospel in order that they may believe in just this way, imitating Thomas in his confession of faith. In other words, the entire gospel is written to persuade people to imitate Thomas, who sincerely called Jesus “My Lord and my God.†Because this is set out by John as the purpose of his gospel, the sentence takes on added force.

May I suggest to you a study on the book of Hebrews.....

 

[Imagican]

Mec
OK, You wtote alot, and put alot of thought into what you wrote, but you still did not prove your point. Lets take a look at the scripture you quoted.....



I do not read where it says we are to ''worship'' OUR neighbor AS YOURSLEF....i do read where it says we are to love our neighbor as ourself....But not worship....

Mec....
true worship is simply to be obediant to God and his Word.....That is it...No fancy words or presentation, but simply that, for you see if one does this all else will fall into place....The reason I presented those definitions of worship is to show you that no matter how you look at worship, you had your OWN definition of the what worship is....

And, once again, you offer that worship IS simply 'to be obedient to God and His Word'. Now I ask you; WHY were we told to 'worship' NO OTHER God BEFORE Him? And WHY were we told to 'worship NO graven image'? From your perspective worship is something simply 'reserved' FOR God. Yet if this WERE True, then we would be UNABLE to worship ANYTHING BUT God. We KNOW that this is NOT the case. For there ARE MANY that choose to WORHIP MANY "THINGS" other than the ONE TRUE GOD.

Mec...I will say this to you. God made people many differant ways....He made women far different that men, thank God.....
Looking at the way the few people voted, there are many who believe differantly than you or mutz does, but to avoid drama, they will say nothing....and thats ok, because there are people who will do the confrontational work....So do I rub people the wrong way....Perhaps but its is those who are presented with the truth, but do not want to hear it....But going by all the great PM's i recieve, keeps me going...''praise Jesus''

And I MAY have actually been one of these 'positive' PMs. I debate issues with you j, NOT because you are the best or the worst. I debate things with you in order to offer and explain what has been revealed 'to me'. That there be others that have had OTHER THINGS revealed to them is to be expected. That there be those that are unable to understand 'some things' REGARDLESS of 'how it is explained' is ALSO to be expected. For each is 'just a part' of the Body.

I have offered you positive comments for one reason. You 'appear' to be TRULY seeking the TRUTH. What I would 'warn' you and MYSELF, (as I DO often), one MUST keep an OPEN-HEART in order to CONTINUE to 'learn'. Once one starts to 'even THINK' that they 'have it ALL figured out' is when they CEASE to learn and can only dwell on what they have ALREADY accepted.

I will state this again, I did not offer my comments to 'hurt your feelings', nor did I state what I stated to cause ANY dissention. I offered what I offered because I 'care' enough to attempt to 'point things' out that others may or may not be aware of. Laughing at one's offerings is certainly not condusive to 'brotherhood' or 'love' in ANY way. No need for an apology or even acknowledgement for that is NOT needed. I hold NO animosity towards ANYONE and simply desire to offer positive advice to any and EVERYONE that I think could 'benefit' from it.

So, back to the 'topic'. Worship, is it JUST something that we are ONLY 'able' to offer TO God, or is it something that He desires from us that we ARE able to offer to ANYTHING? And, WHAT exactly is IT, that God desires in the 'form' of worship? I mean, EXACTLY what does God desire FROM US?

Lets take a look at the OP.... ''Is our belief in who Jesus is, necessary for salvation?''

You see mec, I will not ''Love you'' into hell.... No I love you enough to be honest with you...To tell you that only God can forgive sins....This is why Jesus death on the Cross was the perfect sacrifice....Only God can atone for the sins of man.....No my friend, you know full well ''Jesus is God''...Jesus himself said this ''I am the alpha and the omega''....The beginning and the end....

Jesus speaks of those who will not see him and will yet believe, and John immediately tells the reader that he recorded the events written in his gospel in order that they may believe in just this way, imitating Thomas in his confession of faith. In other words, the entire gospel is written to persuade people to imitate Thomas, who sincerely called Jesus “My Lord and my God Because this is set out by John as the purpose of his gospel, the sentence takes on added force.

Now, here you GO AGAIN, interjecting YOUR opinion that has NEVER been offered scripturally, (nor Spiritually to me). We were NEVER told that the REASON for the 'entire' Gospel is to 'teach us' to imitate Thomas. So far from the truth this is let ME offer what Christ and His TRUE aposles offered, ''IMITATE HIM''. Imitate Christ, NOT Thomas or ANY MAN for that matter. Our relationship is NOT based on 'how your 'church' views your behavior', but HOW WE TREAT GOD AND EACH OTHER.

And John is INTERPRETED by YOU to mean thus. It does NOTHING to offer ME what YOU state that it was 'designed for'.

Look, we SHOULD be here to offer what the Bible states and what has been 'revealed' THROUGH THE SPIRIT. Opinions based on our immediate 'thoughts' do LITTLE to 'help others' in their walk. We each HAVE our opinions and there is NOTHING wrong with that. But, when we speak as "IF" we are offering TRUTH, then we should CERTAINLY be responsible enough to 'dwelve into' that of which we speak BEFORE offering it AS TRUTH. And, better yet, it would be REALLY responsible to STATE that our offerings ARE opinion when one is NOT REALLY SURE if it IS or ISN'T THE TRUTH.

May I suggest to you a study on the book of Hebrews.....

I'm not really sure what you would have me 'learn' from Hebrews. BUT, for the sake of The Spirit, I WILL read it NEXT. I am going through some REALLY DEEP stuff in Romans right now, but I WILL read Hebrews NEXT.

God Bless you my brother.

MEC

 

[jgredline]

And, once again, you offer that worship IS simply 'to be obedient to God and His Word'. Now I ask you; WHY were we told to 'worship' NO OTHER God BEFORE Him? And WHY were we told to 'worship NO graven image'? From your perspective worship is something simply 'reserved' FOR God. Yet if this WERE True, then we would be UNABLE to worship ANYTHING BUT God. We KNOW that this is NOT the case. For there ARE MANY that choose to WORHIP MANY "THINGS" other than the ONE TRUE GOD.

MEC

Mec
With all due respect....Worship ''is'' reserved for God and God alone....The fact that '' there ARE MANY that choose to WORHIP MANY "THINGS" other than the ONE TRUE GOD. '' does not make it OK or right....

You also say ''WHY were we told to 'worship' NO OTHER God BEFORE Him? And WHY were we told to 'worship NO graven image'?....Mec
Let me ask you this. What happened every time the Israelites worshiped other gods?....Why does God tel us.. ''For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God'' Does this sound like a GOD who would share ''his'' spotlight with something else?...No of course not....