Is Salvation really a "free Gift" of God?

[brightfame52]

I believe this verse/ words (John 3:36) of John the Baptist effectively nullify the claim thousands of pastors/teachers across the globe make " one is saved by faith alone" by citing John 3:16. This is nothing but deception---a classic case of " cherry-picking verses from the Bible, to construct one's own doctrine. Reminds me of what the devil also did( at least tried ) in his conversation with Jesus during Christ's testing in the wilderness (Matthew 4:1-11)
Devil quoted the RIGHT Verses, BUT in the WRONG context to deceive Christ --devil Cherry-picked words from the Bible to suit (craft) HIS doctrine of deception
In my sincere opinion, many Churches did similar --because they do NOT quote John 3:36-- words of the Baptist, which COMPLETES the Salvation doctrine of Jesus Christ. let us examine how the doctrine looks/ reads when both verses come together( John 3:16 and 36) --- to me this was the Doctrine of the salvation of Christ Jesus :
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

In my humble opinion quoting John 3:16 as stand-alone scripture WITHOUT John 3:36 is nothing but deception[/I]. I submit in respect and sincerity. Plead, it is received in the same spirit, even if you have a different view on it-- I'm not here to make dogmatic assertions. Hopefully, we are here for mutual edification and rely on scripture to make our points.
I look forward to the return of the lord and the judgment day for Truth from the Lord himself -- because without His approval ( of our interpretations), nothing can be absolutely certain
Await your response /\
[/QUOTE]
Hi I am familiar with those verses, but how you understand them is important. Its not good to understand them in a fashion that results in Salvation by works, thats contrary to scripture since Salvation is the Gift of God by Grace and not of works.

 

[JLB]

I believe this verse/ words (John 3:36) of John the Baptist effectively nullify the claim thousands of pastors/teachers across the globe make " one is saved by faith alone"

I agree with this statement, however it’s the words of the Apostle John.


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB




JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I agree with this statement, however it’s the words of the Apostle John.


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB




JLB

What do you mean when you say "but it is the words of the Apostle John"?
Does that change anything?

 

[brightfame52]

Actually that’s backwards.


We receive eternal life because we believe the Gospel.

Which was the case in Acts 13:48. Did you read the context?


The context shows us that Paul and Barnabus were sent out by the Holy Spirit to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles.


So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us:
I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region. Acts 13:42-48


A person receives eternal life when they hear and believe the Gospel.




JLB

Hi, I havent read anything that will reverse the order, They which believed had already been ordained to Eternal life Acts 13:48

Eternal Life/Salvation is limited to as many as the Father has given the Son Jn 17:2
2 as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
As many as denotes a limitation.

Matt Poole wrote of the words "as many as"

as many as, & c., is plainly restrictive, and limits the gift to a certain number. And to examine our right to it, we need not ascend up into heaven, to search the rolls of the eternal counsels; for all whom the Father hath given him shall come unto him, and not only receive him as their High Priest, but give up themselves to be ruled and guided by him, by the efficacious working of the Spirit of his grace. By such a receiving of Christ, and giving up of ourselves to his conduct and government, we shall know whether we be of the number of those that are given to Christ; and till we find this, we have no reason to conclude it, but to fear and suspect the contrary.

John Gill wrote:

that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him; eternal life is a gift, and not owing to the merits of men; indeed there is no merit in men's works, no, not in the best; for these are previously due to God, cannot be profitable to him, if done aright, are not done in the creature's strength, but through the grace of God, and bear no proportion to eternal life; which is in Christ's gift: not only the promise of it is in him, but that itself; it is put into his hands, and he came into this world, that his people might have it; he has procured it, and has removed what lay in the way of their enjoyment of it; he has a right to bestow it, and their right unto it comes by him, through his blood and righteousness: the persons on whom he confers this gift, are not all men, but such as the Father in the everlasting covenant has given to him, as his people and portion, his spouse and children, his jewels and his treasure, to be saved and enjoyed by him; whom he has chosen and preserved in him, and made his care and charge; to these, and every one of these, Christ gives this great blessing; nor shalt any of them come short of it; and it is for the sake of this, that all creatures and things, all power in heaven and in earth, are given to him.

 

[brightfame52]

I agree with this statement, however it’s the words of the Apostle John.


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB




JLB

I agree with that verse also !

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I believe this verse/ words (John 3:36) of John the Baptist effectively nullify the claim thousands of pastors/teachers across the globe make " one is saved by faith alone" by citing John 3:16. This is nothing but deception---a classic case of " cherry-picking verses from the Bible, to construct one's own doctrine. Reminds me of what the devil also did( at least tried ) in his conversation with Jesus during Christ's testing in the wilderness (Matthew 4:1-11)
Devil quoted the RIGHT Verses, BUT in the WRONG context to deceive Christ --devil Cherry-picked words from the Bible to suit (craft) HIS doctrine of deception
In my sincere opinion, many Churches did similar --because they do NOT quote John 3:36-- words of the Baptist, which COMPLETES the Salvation doctrine of Jesus Christ. let us examine how the doctrine looks/ reads when both verses come together( John 3:16 and 36) --- to me this was the Doctrine of the salvation of Christ Jesus :
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

In my humble opinion quoting John 3:16 as stand-alone scripture WITHOUT John 3:36 is nothing but deception[/I]. I submit in respect and sincerity. Plead, it is received in the same spirit, even if you have a different view on it-- I'm not here to make dogmatic assertions. Hopefully, we are here for mutual edification and rely on scripture to make our points.
I look forward to the return of the lord and the judgment day for Truth from the Lord himself -- because without His approval ( of our interpretations), nothing can be absolutely certain
Await your response /\

Hi I am familiar with those verses, but how you understand them is important. Its not good to understand them in a fashion that results in Salvation by works, thats contrary to scripture since Salvation is the Gift of God by Grace and not of works.
[/QUOTE]
If Salvation is " free Gift of God by grace and not works " as you say ( and I beg to differ based on scriptural evidence ) how was the Good Samaritan saved?
1) he had no faith in (or relationship with) Jesus or the gospel
2) he was a part pagan and an idol worshipper

 

[brightfame52]

Hi I am familiar with those verses, but how you understand them is important. Its not good to understand them in a fashion that results in Salvation by works, thats contrary to scripture since Salvation is the Gift of God by Grace and not of works.

If Salvation is " free Gift of God by grace and not works " as you say ( and I beg to differ based on scriptural evidence ) how was the Good Samaritan saved?
1) he had no faith in (or relationship with) Jesus or the gospel
2) he was a part pagan and an idol worshipper
[/QUOTE]
If it wasn't by grace you tell me. I believe if anyone is saved its by the Grace of God.

 

[Link1983]

Thats a unscriptural statement friend.

How is that? And can you show me?
I will bow to the Word.

 

[Link1983]

If Salvation is " free Gift of God by grace and not works " as you say ( and I beg to differ based on scriptural evidence ) how was the Good Samaritan saved?
1) he had no faith in (or relationship with) Jesus or the gospel
2) he was a part pagan and an idol worshipper

All grace! And grace is the free gift. They go hand in hand

 

[JLB]

What do you mean when you say "but it is the words of the Apostle John"?
Does that change anything?

No sir. It doesn’t change a thing, which is why I agreed with him.


He was thinking John 3:36 was from John the Baptist.




JLB

 

[JLB]

I believe if anyone is saved its by the Grace of God.

I agree.

Grace through faith.




JLB

 

[JLB]

If Salvation is " free Gift of God by grace and not works " as you say ( and I beg to differ based on scriptural evidence ) how was the Good Samaritan saved?
1) he had no faith in (or relationship with) Jesus or the gospel
2) he was a part pagan and an idol worshipper

If it wasn't by grace you tell me. I believe if anyone is saved its by the Grace of God.

Maybe if you quote the scripture where the Good Samaritan was saved, so we can examine it, then we can all discuss it.

 

[JLB]

Matt Poole wrote of the words "as many as"

John Gill wrote:

Oh, ok.


Wow, I didn’t know Gill and Poole thought that.

Your bringing out the big guns now.


Ok, so explain how t is we are saved, born again, regenerated before we hear and believe the Gospel?




JLB

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

If Salvation is " free Gift of God by grace and not works " as you say ( and I beg to differ based on scriptural evidence ) how was the Good Samaritan saved?
1) he had no faith in (or relationship with) Jesus or the gospel
2) he was a part pagan and an idol worshipper

If it wasn't by grace you tell me. I believe if anyone is saved its by the Grace of God.
[/QUOTE]
The much hyped word GRACE was never used by Jesus , did anyone wonder WHY ?
Grace does not Save . Doing the Will of God does assures Jesus ( Matthew 7:21, Mark 3:35, 1John 2:17)
secondly the Saving grace did not apply (
to the goats ( believing Christians )------ on the judgment day of Christ---- since they didn't practise loving- compassion, On the other hand the Saving Grace applied to a non believer , idol worshipping partly Pagan Good Samaritan who went out of the way to help a dying stranger lying ambushed on a street, even as the Samaritan endangered his own life .
The much hyped Grace applies only to those who have learned to turn away ( repent) from Sin and moved towards practising LOVING-KINDNESS. Only that can save a human. No Love No Grace .

And this love is pure, unconditional and Godly Love.
When John was reclining on the Chest of Universe, I meant Jesus [ Jeremiah 23 :24] at that moment John must have realized the man He was leaning on was what filled the zillions of miles large Universe . And that which fills the Universe was Love . If we read the Gospel of John we find Love as the overarching theme and message of Christ. John knew that whoever did not learn to Love never knew God , for God Is Love ( 1 John 4:8)
Good Samaritan may not be a believer , but it was His actions of Love ( and compassio ) that captured the heart of the Savior.
Grace means nothing in the presence of Sinful life and absence of Loving kindness in a christian . The word Grace was seldom used by any of His handpicked Apostles, except twice in entire 4 gospels. It started getting used repeatedly by Paul.
But is conspicuous by its absence in teaching of Christ, whose highest emphasis was on Love, obedience and repentance.
Without these a Christian cannot be saved warns Jesus. Grace or no Grace .
I jokingly teach my Bible group " GRACE applies only to those who are willing to RACE!"
Race here would mean robust obedience.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Parable of the Good Samaritan
Luke 10:25-37

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

 

[JLB]

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

This tells me that loving and helping people is being obedient to Jesus.


I will say this, however.

I need the Holy Spirit to help me to be this way to my enemies.

Grace = the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

God’s Spirit, His enabling power to do His will is given to us, unmerited, not because we deserve it, but according to His kindness and mercy towards us.


For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17



JLB

 

[brightfame52]

How is that? And can you show me?
I will bow to the Word.

You show me the statement in the word and that will take care of that.

 

[brightfame52]

Maybe if you quote the scripture where the Good Samaritan was saved, so we can examine it, then we can all discuss it.

You bought it up didn't you?

 

[brightfame52]

Oh, ok.


Wow, I didn’t know Gill and Poole thought that.

Your bringing out the big guns now.


Ok, so explain how t is we are saved, born again, regenerated before we hear and believe the Gospel?




JLB

Sir already answered, please review the posts. Try the thread which was closed.

 

[brightfame52]

If it wasn't by grace you tell me. I believe if anyone is saved its by the Grace of God.

The much hyped word GRACE was never used by Jesus , did anyone wonder WHY ?
Grace does not Save . Doing the Will of God does assures Jesus ( Matthew 7:21, Mark 3:35, 1John 2:17)
secondly the Saving grace did not apply (
to the goats ( believing Christians )------ on the judgment day of Christ---- since they didn't practise loving- compassion, On the other hand the Saving Grace applied to a non believer , idol worshipping partly Pagan Good Samaritan who went out of the way to help a dying stranger lying ambushed on a street, even as the Samaritan endangered his own life .
The much hyped Grace applies only to those who have learned to turn away ( repent) from Sin and moved towards practising LOVING-KINDNESS. Only that can save a human. No Love No Grace .

And this love is pure, unconditional and Godly Love.
When John was reclining on the Chest of Universe, I meant Jesus [ Jeremiah 23 :24] at that moment John must have realized the man He was leaning on was what filled the zillions of miles large Universe . And that which fills the Universe was Love . If we read the Gospel of John we find Love as the overarching theme and message of Christ. John knew that whoever did not learn to Love never knew God , for God Is Love ( 1 John 4:8)
Good Samaritan may not be a believer , but it was His actions of Love ( and compassio ) that captured the heart of the Savior.
Grace means nothing in the presence of Sinful life and absence of Loving kindness in a christian . The word Grace was seldom used by any of His handpicked Apostles, except twice in entire 4 gospels. It started getting used repeatedly by Paul.
But is conspicuous by its absence in teaching of Christ, whose highest emphasis was on Love, obedience and repentance.
Without these a Christian cannot be saved warns Jesus. Grace or no Grace .
I jokingly teach my Bible group " GRACE applies only to those who are willing to RACE!"
Race here would mean robust obedience.
[/QUOTE]
You lost me!