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Is Salvation really a "free Gift" of God?

JLB said:
No one receives eternal life apart from believing the Gospel message.

In order to believe the Gospel they must hear it.

In order to hear it, someone must preach It.

In order for someone to preach the Gospel they must be sent.


This is how the Gentiles received eternal life in Acts 13:48


For so the Lord has commanded us:
I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region. Acts 13:47-49





JLB
Click to expand...
Those who Christ gives Eternal Life to, He gives them Life, they have the Gospel sent to them, they believe. They believe because they have already been ordained to Eternal life Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Notice those three restrictive words again " as many as" Just like Jn 17:2

2 as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
 
brightfame52 said:
Those who Christ gives Eternal Life to, He gives them Life, they have the Gospel sent to them, they believe. They believe because they have already been ordained to Eternal life Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Click to expand...

We see from reading the context of Acts 13:48, that the Holy Spirit chose Paul and Barnabas to bring the word of salvation to the region that He saw was ready for the Gospel.

IOW, it was ordained for that region to hear the Gospel, and receive eternal life. Some rejected the message while others believed.


God brings eternal life through the preaching of the Gospel to those who believe.


JLB
 
brightfame52 said:
Notice those three restrictive words again " as many as" Just like Jn 17:2

2 as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Click to expand...

Yes, we have discussed this. I agree Jesus Christ has authority to give eternal life to His disciples. That is the context.


  • that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
  • I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world.
  • For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
  • Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

These passages refer to the 12 disciples who were given to Jesus to catty on His work of preaching the Gospel and making disciples.


Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:1-12




JLB
 
JLB said:
Yes, we have discussed this. I agree Jesus Christ has authority to give eternal life to His disciples. That is the context.


  • that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
  • I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world.
  • For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
  • Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

These passages refer to the 12 disciples who were given to Jesus to catty on His work of preaching the Gospel and making disciples.


Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:1-12




JLB
Click to expand...
Eternal life was not only for the disciples lol.
 
Scriptural debate filled with respect and love always leads to better understanding. Thank you friends for your valued contribution.?
As I read the posts, I experience the presence of the Lord, for He is the Word. As the end draws near, what I gain from the scriptures is, unless we learn to do the Will of God vs our own will---- going against our own grain, and doing the will of God ----no one can be saved. Again that is what I get from the Word. Everyone and everything which is NOT in sync with the Will of God will perish on the last day. Im relying on what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23, Mark 3:35, and John says
1 John 2:17 "The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains forever"
That Will was Love.. which is pure, unconditional, and sacrificing in nature ( think of a mother and child or you and your puppy :)--- or the mama bear and her cubs.
it was always Love. That to me was the will of God---we Love all. Pure and unconditional. No expectations there. Jesus says the Law cannot die or pass ( Matthew 5:17-18). The universe can DIE and be destroyed and become NOTHING, but the Law cannot go is what Jesus is effectively saying. it's written on our minds and hearts and just cannot go. we will always be under the law given by God himself. whoever says we are NOT under the law is Blaspheming God Himself. Even the Son has no right to replace ( or end) the law given by the Father and the Son affirms that ( He was always obedient to the bone.. doing ALWAYS the will of the father-- never His own :) ]. yet the good Lord taught us ( unfortunately it is seldom taught now) --It is when we learn to move away from Sin and LOVE God and everyone else ( Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12 --we obey the ENTIRE Law and the teachings of the Prophets says Jesus. We become in sync with the Will of God and become a part of His kingdom, else not. Unfortunately, most Churches concentrated so hard on getting saved that they ignored the MOST important message of Bible, which was spoken through none else than the Son of God, who is the face of god who is the spoken Word of God. And that was LOVE. Jesus lifts aup a pagan and idol worshipper the Good Samaritan and Alludes Himself to the him because He went out of his way to save the life of an unknown man who lay woynded and dying on the street when nobody helped him. Jesus confirms that in Goats and Sheep vision (Matthew 25:31-46) of impending judgment on mankind ( a sneak preview, if you will, of judgment day) that everyone who does not PRACTICE loving compassion will be condemned on the last day-- believer or otherwise. John the apostle repeats the same message ( I take this as an alarming warning) in 1 John 4:8, : "Whoever does not love does not know God because God is love."
This being said I have also learned that we Christians live with our interpretations of the Word/ message. Most of us ( including me! especially me! :) ) is stubbornly clinging to our own interpretation. To me, it's clear as daylight not one will enter the kingdom of heaven unless they learn to shun sin and turn to practice loving compassion --which may take a lifetime to learn to do.
To me there is no other way to be saved. BUT I will not make dogmatic assertions. Nothing matters to me brothers and sisters BUT the Will of God. It's become an obsession with me. After seeing and experiencing all I have in my earthly life I wish for nothing else but His will be done moment by moment--so great is my disillusionment and disenchantment with Human will ... my own will ....
If I were ever called on to address a gathering of new Christians my one-line message will be " friends learn do the will of God at all costs.--Nothing matters more than this "
i pray blessings on all and love on all. I'm NOT at all an authority on the Word and I wish not to make strong assertions about MY interpretation of the salvation message. My interpretation is purely my own. Nobody taught me that, and therefore i could be off the mark. My heartfelt prayer to Jesus is " lord I came crying and kicking in the world, pleas bless me in a way that I may depart this world in Love... Loving and blessing all ( even more those who hurt me deeply and rejected me) .. spraying love in very direction and everyone, no exceptions. I also believe ( no scriptural proof, and therefore speculation) that the day apostle John placed His head on the chest of Jesus, the creator, and God of the zillions of miles large universe ( Jeremiah 23:24), that moment John knew that it was all about LOVE, for john and placed his head on the HEART of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE -- this is all mind-boggling.. and yet so beautiful

​


Treasury of
 
brightfame52 said:
Eternal life was not only for the disciples lol.
Click to expand...

Eternal life is for whoever believes.

The context of John 17 is referring to His twelve disciples.

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. John 17:6


“The men You have given Me out of the world” refers to Hs twelve disciples.


Notice that they were of the world.


Eternal life is for the world, whoever believes.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16




JLB
 
brightfame52 said:
It's by one obedience not two.
Click to expand...

I sort of disagree. While it was Jesus's obedience which redeems us we are certainly expected to be as obedient as we can. But of course we can not be sinless or 100% obedient because of all of the demonic oppression that we are under, but it is by us trying to be obedient and falling, then getting back up to repent and ask forgiveness...returning to Him our Lord and God. And we are to be diligent in doing this and seeking Him. This is why King David prolly committed worse sins than you ever had, yet was caled a man after God's own heart. Because he kept clinging t the Lord.

I think it is essentially all about obedience and relationship. . So while we were yet dead in our sins, he, by the gift of grace offered us salvation. Then through faith, we learn to become obedient to Him and seek Him while enduring to the end and these efforts of ours are rewarded...

Hebrews 11:
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
 
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JLB said:
Eternal life is for whoever believes.

The context of John 17 is referring to His twelve disciples.

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. John 17:6


“The men You have given Me out of the world” refers to Hs twelve disciples.


Notice that they were of the world.


Eternal life is for the world, whoever believes.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16




JLB
Click to expand...
Eternal Life is for as many as the Father gave the Son Jn 17:2 and they shall believe !
 
Edward said:
I sort of disagree. While it was Jesus's obedience which redeems us we are certainly expected to be as obedient as we can. But of course we can not be sinless or 100% obedient because of all of the demonic oppression that we are under, but it is by us trying to be obedient and falling, then getting back up to repent and ask forgiveness...returning to Him our Lord and God. And we are to be diligent in doing this and seeking Him. This is why King David prolly committed worse sins than you ever had, yet was caled a man after God's own heart. Because he kept clinging t the Lord.

I think it is essentially all about obedience and relationship. . So while we were yet dead in our sins, he, by the gift of grace offered us salvation. Then through faith, we learn to become obedient to Him and seek Him while enduring to the end and these efforts of ours are rewarded...

Hebrews 11:
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Click to expand...
Its Christ obedience alone which makes many righteous. Later the Spirit will be given which will produce obedience from the Justified person 1 Pet 1:2

2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
 
brightfame52 said:
Eternal Life is for as many as the Father gave the Son Jn 17:2 and they shall believe !
Click to expand...

Those who are given eternal life are those who hear the Gospel and believe.


God does not choose some people and just give them eternal
life apart from the Gospel.


The twelve disciples He was referring heard and believed the Gospel, and obeyed the call to follow the Lord as disciples.


They were destined to inherit eternal life.

Likewise Jesus gave the same promise to those who would come after and make the same sacrifice and commitment to Him.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:28-29


  • you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

  • everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.



Each of us who have believed the Gospel, have the hope of eternal live as heirs.

Heirs have the hope of an inheritance to come.


But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:4-7



JLB
 
JLB said:
Those who are given eternal life are those who hear the Gospel and believe.


God does not choose some people and just give them eternal
life apart from the Gospel.


The twelve disciples He was referring heard and believed the Gospel, and obeyed the call to follow the Lord as disciples.


They were destined to inherit eternal life.

Likewise Jesus gave the same promise to those who would come after and make the same sacrifice and commitment to Him.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:28-29


  • you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

  • everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.



Each of us who have believed the Gospel, have the hope of eternal live as heirs.

Heirs have the hope of an inheritance to come.


But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:4-7



JLB
Click to expand...
Those who have been ordained to eternal life hear the word and believe. Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
 
brightfame52 said:
Those who have been ordained to eternal life hear the word and believe. Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Click to expand...
But by believing I'm hopeful you mean they chose to obey as well . For Jesus was abundantly clear than nobody can be saved unless they elect to do the Will of God versus their own Will ( mark 3:35, Matthew 7:21, 1 John 2:17)
 
Rajesh Sahu said:
But by believing I'm hopeful you mean they chose to obey as well . For Jesus was abundantly clear than nobody can be saved unless they elect to do the Will of God versus their own Will ( mark 3:35, Matthew 7:21, 1 John 2:17)
Click to expand...
That is inaccurate. That sounds like work salvation by man. A person is saved by the obedience of one Rom 5:19 and that one is not the person made righteous. It is the one obedience of Christ.
 

brightfame52​

"That sounds like work salvation by man. A person is saved by the obedience of one Rom 5:19 and that one is not the person made righteous. It is the one obedience of Christ."

Raj: Dear brother Bright Flame, it seems Jesus also talks about "work salvation by man" in his closing lines of the sermon on the mount ( called by many as the) greatest piece of His teaching :
Matthew 7:26-27
“But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”
It appears Jesus is saying in unequivocal terms, that whoever does not put into practise His commands will be condemned on the last day. He shows proof of that in the vision of Goats and Sheep , when the non-compliant believers ( goats) were condemned on the last day
John the Baptist issues a similar warning just few verses after the abundantly quoted john 3:16
in John 3:36 (NASB)
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
So why do you think Jesus and John are threatening condemnation on non-compliance IF at all it is Faith alone that saves. Are they in error? On WHOM does the wrath of God remain on not obeying according to John the Baptist?
 
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Rajesh Sahu said:
That sounds like work salvation by man. A person is saved by the obedience of one Rom 5:19 and that one is not the person made righteous. It is the one obedience of Christ.
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]
I believe this verse/ words (John 3:36) of John the Baptist effectively nullify the claim thousands of pastors/teachers across the globe make " one is saved by faith alone" by citing John 3:16. This is nothing but deception---a classic case of " cherry-picking verses from the Bible, to construct one's own doctrine. Reminds me of what the devil also did( at least tried ) in his conversation with Jesus during Christ's testing in the wilderness (Matthew 4:1-11)
Devil quoted the RIGHT Verses, BUT in the WRONG context to deceive Christ --devil Cherry-picked words from the Bible to suit (craft) HIS doctrine of deception
In my sincere opinion, many Churches did similar --because they do NOT quote John 3:36-- words of the Baptist, which COMPLETES the Salvation doctrine of Jesus Christ. let us examine how the doctrine looks/ reads when both verses come together( John 3:16 and 36) --- to me this was the Doctrine of the salvation of Christ Jesus :
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

In my humble opinion quoting John 3:16 as stand-alone scripture WITHOUT John 3:36 is nothing but deception[/I]. I submit in respect and sincerity. Plead, it is received in the same spirit, even if you have a different view on it-- I'm not here to make dogmatic assertions. Hopefully, we are here for mutual edification and rely on scripture to make our points.
I look forward to the return of the lord and the judgment day for Truth from the Lord himself -- because without His approval ( of our interpretations), nothing can be absolutely certain :)
Await your response /\
 
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brightfame52 said:
They shall believe because they are given eternal life. As many as ordained to Eternal life shall believe Acts 13:48
Click to expand...

Actually that’s backwards.


We receive eternal life because we believe the Gospel.

Which was the case in Acts 13:48. Did you read the context?


The context shows us that Paul and Barnabus were sent out by the Holy Spirit to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles.


So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us:
I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region. Acts 13:42-48


A person receives eternal life when they hear and believe the Gospel.




JLB
 
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