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Is Salvation really a "free Gift" of God?

brightfame52 said:
The much hyped word GRACE was never used by Jesus , did anyone wonder WHY ?
Grace does not Save . Doing the Will of God does assures Jesus ( Matthew 7:21, Mark 3:35, 1John 2:17)
secondly the Saving grace did not apply (
to the goats ( believing Christians )------ on the judgment day of Christ---- since they didn't practise loving- compassion, On the other hand the Saving Grace applied to a non believer , idol worshipping partly Pagan Good Samaritan who went out of the way to help a dying stranger lying ambushed on a street, even as the Samaritan endangered his own life .
The much hyped Grace applies only to those who have learned to turn away ( repent) from Sin and moved towards practising LOVING-KINDNESS. Only that can save a human. No Love No Grace .

And this love is pure, unconditional and Godly Love.
When John was reclining on the Chest of Universe, I meant Jesus :) [ Jeremiah 23 :24] at that moment John must have realized the man He was leaning on was what filled the zillions of miles large Universe . And that which fills the Universe was Love . If we read the Gospel of John we find Love as the overarching theme and message of Christ. John knew that whoever did not learn to Love never knew God , for God Is Love ( 1 John 4:8)
Good Samaritan may not be a believer , but it was His actions of Love ( and compassio ) that captured the heart of the Savior.
Grace means nothing in the presence of Sinful life and absence of Loving kindness in a christian . The word Grace was seldom used by any of His handpicked Apostles, except twice in entire 4 gospels. It started getting used repeatedly by Paul.
But is conspicuous by its absence in teaching of Christ, whose highest emphasis was on Love, obedience and repentance.
Without these a Christian cannot be saved warns Jesus. Grace or no Grace .
I jokingly teach my Bible group " GRACE applies only to those who are willing to RACE!"
Race here would mean robust obedience.
Click to expand...
You lost me!
[/QUOTE]
Think about this Bright : Had Grace been crucial to human salvation as is being abundantly taught, Why didnt the Christ choose to mention it even once in His ministry. You dont have to answer this question bro. But I would strongly encourage you to reflect on this. After all there was only Jesus who died on the cross for human sin. He bore the brunt of the excruciating pain n suffering for sin of man. If grace was the way to salvation, wouldn't He have taught / mentioned it at least once in His ministry ? Also it would be prudent to be mindful that Jesus , post resurrection, got the opportunity to spend time with His disciples ( again) , and some others as well. If He had "forgotten" / or it "slipped His mind" the first time, wouldn't He have taught Grace as the redeeming feature in His doctrine of Salvation in His second innings ? But He didn't. I would encourage you to consider "Why "
 
Rajesh Sahu[/URL] brought up the samaritan. Ask him please.
[/QUOTE]

That is right . I believe I brought up the Good Samaritan parable into the discussion. The reason being, it's an important parable to dwell on , since this story has deep bearing on human salvation ( and the core message of Bible itself). Let us take a deep dive into this brothers and sisters :)
Luke 10 :25-37:
When the expert of Law asked Jesus in the parable
“Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
Jesus replied :
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do THIS and you will live"

But the expert in Law proceeds to ask Jesus in verse 29
"And who is my neighbor?”
Jesus narrated the Parable of the Good Samaritan . In this parable lies the mystery and heart of Jesus Christ who will judge everyone on the last day. If one studies this Parable diligently we will understand WHY Jesus rejected the Goats on the last day , in the Sheep and Goats vision of judgment day, ( Matthew 25:31-46) even as He lifted the Sheep up saying the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
Sheep were the believers who did exactly what the Good Samaritan had done ! ( see the connection).They had practised loving compassion in their earthly life, and Jesus lifts them on the last day .
However the "Goats" who had failed to perform acts of loving kindness were condemned on the last day by the King who said "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
( Truly terrifying words of Condemnation)
Jesus proceeds to explain the reason for their condemnation
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.

It is noteworthy to remember brethren that Jesus does not hold the lack of Faith of the Samaritan against him. In fact if we scrutinize the parable ( of Good Samaritan) Jesus alludes himself to the Good Samaritan ( reference Luke 10 :35 : The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘AND WHEN I RETURN, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’)

Summarizing the post in bullet points :
1) Entire teaching and message of Christ, the Bible if you will, lies in one hyphenated word... Loving-Kindness. Ironically this is seldom taught though nowadays.
2) The Sheep and the Good Samaritans , the ones who practised Loving-Kindness in their earthly life, will inherit the Kingdom of God
3) While "goats" are believers and non believers are who didnt practise Loving-kindness will find the going tough on the last day and may have to hear the terrifying words of rejection from the King Christ.
4) In the parable of the Good Samaritan, When The Expert in Law asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus says exactly the words He says ( wonderful consustency) in Matthew 22:37 -40 , "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
5) When we the believers practise ( Love God and fellow humans) what Jesus taught us through the parable of the Good Samaritan and in Matthew 22:37-40, we FULFILL the entire Law and teachings of Christ and the Prophets, and now we are good with God for our acts of love have covered all our sins as Proverbs 10:12 reveals and 1Peter 4:8 also . And the Grace emanating from the death of Christ on Cross is now imputed to us , and we are welcomed into His Kingdom of eternal Love.....heaven
6) Gates of heaven will be shut on all who failed to learn to love (1John 4 :8) because God and Christ are Love ( john 10:30)
7) the Entire message of Bible therefore finds best expression/ condensation in one tiny word ( with incredibly colossal ramifications!) L.O.V.E
8) Pure, unconditional, and selfless Love is the opposite of Fear, Hate, greed , jealousy, deceit and lust. Love then is the literal Opposite of Sin...
9) No Love No Grace .... this is why the Vision of Goats and Sheep was shown to us by Christ
10) May God's wisdom and love permeate our hearts and soul /\ /\ /\
 
Rajesh Sahu said:
Rajesh Sahu[/URL] brought up the samaritan. Ask him please.
Click to expand...

That is right . I believe I brought up the Good Samaritan parable into the discussion. The reason being, it's an important parable to dwell on , since this story has deep bearing on human salvation ( and the core message of Bible itself). Let us take a deep dive into this brothers and sisters :)
Luke 10 :25-37:
When the expert of Law asked Jesus in the parable
“Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
Jesus replied :
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do THIS and you will live"

But the expert in Law proceeds to ask Jesus in verse 29
"And who is my neighbor?”
Jesus narrated the Parable of the Good Samaritan . In this parable lies the mystery and heart of Jesus Christ who will judge everyone on the last day. If one studies this Parable diligently we will understand WHY Jesus rejected the Goats on the last day , in the Sheep and Goats vision of judgment day, ( Matthew 25:31-46) even as He lifted the Sheep up saying the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
Sheep were the believers who did exactly what the Good Samaritan had done ! ( see the connection).They had practised loving compassion in their earthly life, and Jesus lifts them on the last day .
However the "Goats" who had failed to perform acts of loving kindness were condemned on the last day by the King who said "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
( Truly terrifying words of Condemnation)
Jesus proceeds to explain the reason for their condemnation
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.

It is noteworthy to remember brethren that Jesus does not hold the lack of Faith of the Samaritan against him. In fact if we scrutinize the parable ( of Good Samaritan) Jesus alludes himself to the Good Samaritan ( reference Luke 10 :35 : The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘AND WHEN I RETURN, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’)

Summarizing the post in bullet points :
1) Entire teaching and message of Christ, the Bible if you will, lies in one hyphenated word... Loving-Kindness. Ironically this is seldom taught though nowadays.
2) The Sheep and the Good Samaritans , the ones who practised Loving-Kindness in their earthly life, will inherit the Kingdom of God
3) While "goats" are believers and non believers are who didnt practise Loving-kindness will find the going tough on the last day and may have to hear the terrifying words of rejection from the King Christ.
4) In the parable of the Good Samaritan, When The Expert in Law asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus says exactly the words He says ( wonderful consustency) in Matthew 22:37 -40 , "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
5) When we the believers practise ( Love God and fellow humans) what Jesus taught us through the parable of the Good Samaritan and in Matthew 22:37-40, we FULFILL the entire Law and teachings of Christ and the Prophets, and now we are good with God for our acts of love have covered all our sins as Proverbs 10:12 reveals and 1Peter 4:8 also . And the Grace emanating from the death of Christ on Cross is now imputed to us , and we are welcomed into His Kingdom of eternal Love.....heaven
6) Gates of heaven will be shut on all who failed to learn to love (1John 4 :8) because God and Christ are Love ( john 10:30)
7) the Entire message of Bible therefore finds best expression/ condensation in one tiny word ( with incredibly colossal ramifications!) L.O.V.E
8) Pure, unconditional, and selfless Love is the opposite of Fear, Hate, greed , jealousy, deceit and lust. Love then is the literal Opposite of Sin...
9) No Love No Grace .... this is why the Vision of Goats and Sheep was shown to us by Christ
10) May God's wisdom and love permeate our hearts and soul /\ /\ /\
[/QUOTE]
Now that said, you believe salvation , eternal life is based upon your good works correct?
 
Now that said, you believe salvation , eternal life is based upon your good works correct?
[/QUOTE]
Yes absolutely. Faith is dead without works , Bright . I'm bitterly disappointed so many teachers teach this deception of "Saved by Faith alone" and call doing Good works , " Works based salvation ".
Look what Jesus declares about the FATE of those who do not have good works ( produce good fruit)
Matthew 3:10 :
"The axe lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."
( absence of good works in an individual's life will result in them being cut off from eternal life and cast into eternal fire, warns Christ )
Bright, think also WHAT prompted James, the earthly brother of Jesus , to issue these harsh words of rebuke (James 2:20)
"But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"
( James is warning us that without Good works our Faith is meaningless and dead...won't save us on the last day. Look what happened to the Goats on the judgment day)
Think also Why John the Baptist in John 3:36 reminds us that without obedience, the Wrath of God remains on a Christian. Hasn't gone anywhere
John 3: 36 NASB
"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
Finally brother Bright, no matter from whom we learned our Bible ( and its interpretation from), we still have to go through the judgment ALONE . Jesus will not accept excuses for a fruitless life on the last day . Best bet is to live a life of obedience rather than believe the teachers who scoff at Works based Salvation ( much as James scoffed at Faith Based Salvation doctrine)
We must remember Christ's caveat in Revelation 22:12 ( KJV):
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according AS HIS WORK SHALL BE ."
So there you go brother Bright . Christ caveat says it all. Hopefully He answered your question as well.
So consistently have these weak and deceived teachers taught the falsehood of "Saved by Faith alone" that I'm convinced they will be furious even at Christ for declaring " that He will judge us for our works " !
I am weary of repeatedly replying to same question again and again .
So this is the last time I have replied to this question on "Works based Salvation "
JLB and Wondering have provided tons of verses on this topic. I'll highly encourage you to study their edifying posts .
I'll also encourage you to take a break from these "Saved by Faith alone" teachers and pray to the Lord Jesus to teach you His Word and He will brother Bright ....because He loves us so deeply :)
This is what He gave me when I kept asking Him " Lord can we be saved by faith alone ?" Here is what He taught me:
"If you don't believe, how will you obey,
And if you do not obey, what have you believed?"
Both( Faith and Obedience ----which leads to good works) complete the message Brother Bright , and must work hand in hand.
Lord's rich blessings be upon you /\
 
Rajesh Sahu said:
Now that said, you believe salvation , eternal life is based upon your good works correct?
Click to expand...
Yes absolutely. Faith is dead without works , Bright . I'm bitterly disappointed so many teachers teach this deception of "Saved by Faith alone" and call doing Good works , " Works based salvation ".
Look what Jesus declares about the FATE of those who do not have good works ( produce good fruit)
Matthew 3:10 :
"The axe lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."
( absence of good works in an individual's life will result in them being cut off from eternal life and cast into eternal fire, warns Christ )
Bright, think also WHAT prompted James, the earthly brother of Jesus , to issue these harsh words of rebuke (James 2:20)
"But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"
( James is warning us that without Good works our Faith is meaningless and dead...won't save us on the last day. Look what happened to the Goats on the judgment day)
Think also Why John the Baptist in John 3:36 reminds us that without obedience, the Wrath of God remains on a Christian. Hasn't gone anywhere
John 3: 36 NASB
"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
Finally brother Bright, no matter from whom we learned our Bible ( and its interpretation from), we still have to go through the judgment ALONE . Jesus will not accept excuses for a fruitless life on the last day . Best bet is to live a life of obedience rather than believe the teachers who scoff at Works based Salvation ( much as James scoffed at Faith Based Salvation doctrine)
We must remember Christ's caveat in Revelation 22:12 ( KJV):
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according AS HIS WORK SHALL BE ."
So there you go brother Bright . Christ caveat says it all. Hopefully He answered your question as well.
So consistently have these weak and deceived teachers taught the falsehood of "Saved by Faith alone" that I'm convinced they will be furious even at Christ for declaring " that He will judge us for our works " !
I am weary of repeatedly replying to same question again and again .
So this is the last time I have replied to this question on "Works based Salvation "
JLB and Wondering have provided tons of verses on this topic. I'll highly encourage you to study their edifying posts .
I'll also encourage you to take a break from these "Saved by Faith alone" teachers and pray to the Lord Jesus to teach you His Word and He will brother Bright ....because He loves us so deeply :)
This is what He gave me when I kept asking Him " Lord can we be saved by faith alone ?" Here is what He taught me:
"If you don't believe, how will you obey,
And if you do not obey, what have you believed?"
Both( Faith and Obedience ----which leads to good works) complete the message Brother Bright , and must work hand in hand.
Lord's rich blessings be upon you /\
[/QUOTE]
Salvation based upon works is not scriptural friend. Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
brightfame52 said:
Salvation based upon works is not scriptural friend. Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Click to expand...

Not works of the law
Not good works
Not works that earn a wage


The work that justifies is obedience to the word of God by which we receive faith.

We can not earn salvation by working or doing good deeds.


We receive salvation by obeying the Gospel.



JLB
 
JLB said:
Not works of the law
Not good works
Not works that earn a wage


The work that justifies is obedience to the word of God by which we receive faith.

We can not earn salvation by working or doing good deeds.


We receive salvation by obeying the Gospel.



JLB
Click to expand...
It just occurred to me that what you have been saying sounds like the gospel is a commandment. My understanding is that by definition the gospel is good news and not something to obey but rather to accept and live. The good works are the response to that good news out of love and gratitude not out of guilt or fear or duty but love, love for God.
 
WIP said:
It just occurred to me that what you have been saying sounds like the gospel is a commandment.
Click to expand...

It most definitly is a commandment to all nations.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Romans 16:26

That commandment is REPENT!

Repent according to the bible, the scriptures, the mandate that the Lord Jesus Christ commisioned Paul to carry out, means turn to God (in submission to Him as Lord).



JLB
 
JLB said:
Not works of the law
Not good works
Not works that earn a wage


The work that justifies is obedience to the word of God by which we receive faith.

We can not earn salvation by working or doing good deeds.


We receive salvation by obeying the Gospel.



JLB
Click to expand...
Thats another form of salvation by works, by what a person does. Obedience is something the person does !
 
brightfame52 said:
Thats another form of salvation by works, by what a person does. Obedience is something the person does !
Click to expand...
Only those who obey the Gospel will be saved.

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 Thessalonians 1:9





JLB
 
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Reactions: WIP
brightfame52 said:
Yes absolutely. Faith is dead without works , Bright . I'm bitterly disappointed so many teachers teach this deception of "Saved by Faith alone" and call doing Good works , " Works based salvation ".
Look what Jesus declares about the FATE of those who do not have good works ( produce good fruit)
Matthew 3:10 :
"The axe lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."
( absence of good works in an individual's life will result in them being cut off from eternal life and cast into eternal fire, warns Christ )
Bright, think also WHAT prompted James, the earthly brother of Jesus , to issue these harsh words of rebuke (James 2:20)
"But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"
( James is warning us that without Good works our Faith is meaningless and dead...won't save us on the last day. Look what happened to the Goats on the judgment day)
Think also Why John the Baptist in John 3:36 reminds us that without obedience, the Wrath of God remains on a Christian. Hasn't gone anywhere
John 3: 36 NASB
"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
Finally brother Bright, no matter from whom we learned our Bible ( and its interpretation from), we still have to go through the judgment ALONE . Jesus will not accept excuses for a fruitless life on the last day . Best bet is to live a life of obedience rather than believe the teachers who scoff at Works based Salvation ( much as James scoffed at Faith Based Salvation doctrine)
We must remember Christ's caveat in Revelation 22:12 ( KJV):
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according AS HIS WORK SHALL BE ."
So there you go brother Bright . Christ caveat says it all. Hopefully He answered your question as well.
So consistently have these weak and deceived teachers taught the falsehood of "Saved by Faith alone" that I'm convinced they will be furious even at Christ for declaring " that He will judge us for our works " !
I am weary of repeatedly replying to same question again and again .
So this is the last time I have replied to this question on "Works based Salvation "
JLB and Wondering have provided tons of verses on this topic. I'll highly encourage you to study their edifying posts .
I'll also encourage you to take a break from these "Saved by Faith alone" teachers and pray to the Lord Jesus to teach you His Word and He will brother Bright ....because He loves us so deeply :)
This is what He gave me when I kept asking Him " Lord can we be saved by faith alone ?" Here is what He taught me:
"If you don't believe, how will you obey,
And if you do not obey, what have you believed?"
Both( Faith and Obedience ----which leads to good works) complete the message Brother Bright , and must work hand in hand.
Lord's rich blessings be upon you /\
Click to expand...
Salvation based upon works is not scriptural friend. Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[/QUOTE]
When a person is truly full of the Holy Spirit, works begin to happen.
You want to do the things of God.
You pray for it to happen.
You know you are pleasing God.
Works become automatic in your life.
 
brightfame52 said:
Where do you see the words offer in Jn 3:16
Click to expand...
You're funny brighfame.....
You don't see the word OFFER in John 3:16

BUT

You don't accept the words ALL MEN in John 12:32

What do you think ALL MEN means anyway?

God draws all men to Himself.
Please see Romans 1:19-20.

Some reply YES to God
and some reply NO to God.

But ALL MEN
means
ALL MEN

In any language BTW.
 
brightfame52 said:
I agree with that verse.
Click to expand...

There's more verses that say "obey the Gospel".

The way we obey the Gospel is to repent.

The way we repent, turn to God in submission to Him and His kingdom is to confess Jesus as Lord.


By confessing Jesus as Lord we are commiting to serve and obey Him as Lord.

Its an eternal commitment to come under His authority and kingdom rule: to obey His commandments and laws.


When we turn to God, we are by default turning away from Satan as our lord.



JLB
 
wondering said:
You're funny brighfame.....
You don't see the word OFFER in John 3:16

BUT

You don't accept the words ALL MEN in John 12:32

What do you think ALL MEN means anyway?

God draws all men to Himself.
Please see Romans 1:19-20.

Some reply YES to God
and some reply NO to God.

But ALL MEN
means
ALL MEN

In any language BTW.
Click to expand...
No I dont see the word offer in Jn 3:16 and neither do you.
 
JLB said:
There's more verses that say "obey the Gospel".

The way we obey the Gospel is to repent.

The way we repent, turn to God in submission to Him and His kingdom is to confess Jesus as Lord.


By confessing Jesus as Lord we are commiting to serve and obey Him as Lord.

Its an eternal commitment to come under His authority and kingdom rule: to obey His commandments and laws.


When we turn to God, we are by default turning away from Satan as our lord.



JLB
Click to expand...
I dont have any problem with verses that say obey the Gospel. Eternal Life is nevertheless to be given only to as many as the Father giveth the Son Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

John Gill writes:

that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him; eternal life is a gift, and not owing to the merits of men; indeed there is no merit in men's works, no, not in the best; for these are previously due to God, cannot be profitable to him, if done aright, are not done in the creature's strength, but through the grace of God, and bear no proportion to eternal life; which is in Christ's gift: not only the promise of it is in him, but that itself; it is put into his hands, and he came into this world, that his people might have it; he has procured it, and has removed what lay in the way of their enjoyment of it; he has a right to bestow it, and their right unto it comes by him, through his blood and righteousness: the persons on whom he confers this gift, are not all men, but such as the Father in the everlasting covenant has given to him, as his people and portion, his spouse and children, his jewels and his treasure, to be saved and enjoyed by him; whom he has chosen and preserved in him, and made his care and charge; to these, and every one of these, Christ gives this great blessing; nor shalt any of them come short of it; and it is for the sake of this, that all creatures and things, all power in heaven and in earth, are given to him.
Click to expand...
 
brightfame52 said:
Eternal Life is nevertheless to be given only to as many as the Father giveth the Son Jn 17:2
Click to expand...

The Father giving the Son refers to His twelve disciples.

That is the context.


The prerequisite is obeying the Gospel.

The 12 disciples obeyed the Gospel and folliwed the Lord.



JLB
 
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