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Is the Law of God dead? And if yes, how?

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Hopeful said:
Thankfully we can experience that death with Christ at our baptism into His death.
It is written..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Rom 6:3-5)
Once we are raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, temptations don't stand a chance of bringing forth evil fruit.
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Well, there's always these pesky facts from Apostles that seem to get in the way of these "I am sinless" claims:

Romans 7:19
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

I will note that Paul stated this existed because of what he termed "no longer I" but it existed for Paul, nevertheless

As it did for John

1 John 1:8
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I might add, IF we go through any motions that lead us back to saying "we have, present tense" no sin, we're back to square 1 John 1:8

Violation of the laws of God, even "in mind" is a violation nevertheless, Mark 5:28, Romans 7:7-13

The laws were never meant to be the friends of any sin in anyone, but are meant to arouse, provoke, rile and even empower sin, so that its existence is beyond any forms of denial. Mark 4:15, Romans 3:19, Romans 7:13, 1 Cor. 15:56

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The revealing and condemnation of lawlessness is a good thing! Our guilty verdict leaves us nowhere else to stand but in and with Christ's Grace and Mercy Eternal, alone.
 
for_his_glory said:
Have you ever literally say down and read all 613 Mosaic Laws?

Why on earth would we want people to fail and fall as we are to be obedient to the laws that pertain to both Jew and Gentile as in the moral parts of the 613 laws. Do you even know what parts are the moral laws?
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Jesus advised us that man shall live by every word of God, Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

Paul did likewise, in Romans 13:8-10, stating that we should obey every commandment
 
smaller said:
We seem to be having a continuing basic semantics issue at play here with Paul's presentation

Here is Paul's term:

1 Tim. 1:
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

I am is not I was
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Yes, agreed. Paul claimed he was the chief sinner that Christ came to save.



Do you believe Paul was a sinner or a saint?




JLB
 
smaller said:
The tempter is a sinner,1 John 3:8, , as are his acts, in mankind, sin, Mark 4:15
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Do you believe born again Christian who is a saint is in the same classification as the devil?



Yes or No
 
smaller said:
Jesus advised us that man shall live by every word of God, Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

Paul did likewise, in Romans 13:8-10, stating that we should obey every commandment
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I ask you a question. It was a yes or no answer. I will ask you one more time.

Have you read all 613 Levitical laws?
 
for_his_glory said:
I ask you a question. It was a yes or no answer. I will ask you one more time.

Have you read all 613 Levitical laws?
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Are you trying to claim I have no grasp of the subject matters at hand? Would you like a count of how many times I've read the Bible, cover to cover, in the last 40 years of being a believer?

I believe Jesus when He said we will live by every word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

Therefore, the math is beyond crystal clear for every word of God being applicable to us all
 
for_his_glory said:
So, do you obey all 613 commandments?
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As Paul stated every command should be comprehended as in Romans 13:8-10, absolutely!

If someone else insists to read those commands as being about pigs and shrimp and certain cloths, I will point back directly to Romans 13:8-10 for the ultimately clarification of every command

AND, also with the huge caveat that the evil present with me, as it was with Paul in Romans 7:21, can never obey a single commandment. No, not one.
 
smaller said:
Are you trying to claim I have no grasp of the subject matters at hand? Would you like a count of how many times I've read the Bible, cover to cover, in the last 40 years of being a believer?

I believe Jesus when He said we will live by every word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

Therefore, the math is beyond crystal clear for every word of God being applicable to us all
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This is no answer to my question as it was only a direct yes or no answer. Just because one has read the Bible cover to cover for whatever amount of years, they still have never read all 613 Levitical laws.
 
smaller said:
As Paul stated every command should be comprehended as in Romans 13:8-10, absolutely!

If someone else insists to read those commands as being about pigs and shrimp and certain cloths, I will point back directly to Romans 13:8-10 for the ultimately clarification of every command

AND, also with the huge caveat that the evil present with me, as it was with Paul in Romans 7:21, can never obey a single commandment. No, not one.
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We are not talking about just the ten commandments, but all 613. I do not believe you have ever read all of them as you skirt around my question without giving me a direct yes or no answer.
 
for_his_glory said:
We are not talking about just the ten commandments, but all 613. I do not believe you have ever read all of them as you skirt around my question without giving me a direct yes or no answer.
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Are you going to point to extra-Biblical works?

OR would you consider that every command exists in the Bible and if I've read the Bible, I read every command?
 
smaller said:
Are you going to point to extra-Biblical works?

OR would you consider that every command exists in the Bible and if I've read the Bible, I read every command?
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There is no extra-Biblical works. So big deal, you have read the Bible. Can you list all 613 laws since you said you read them all?
 
smaller said:
Yes, again, I have read the entire Bible, cover to cover, more times than I can recount

Please make your point
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My point is that IMO you might have read all 613 laws within the Bible by just only reading your Bible, but do you know what all 613 laws are and where to find them in the scriptures?

This is very important to the topic of this thread.
 
Hopeful said:
That is one of the reasons.

He fulfilled it.

He was also talking to OT men who were under the Law.
He was not addressing NT men who are dead to the Law.
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yes for sure he was talking to jews - in fact he said he came only for the jews - he was not talking to non-jews - Matthew 15:24

but the point is he fulfilled/lived God's laws and He said the least in the kingdom is a law breaker who teaches others to break God's laws - and those who keep and teach God's laws are the great ones - meaning he fully upheld God's laws in word and deed and wanted those listening to him to do likewise - Matthew 5:19
 
Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Jesus came to fulfill the righteousness of the law as we no longer live by the letter of the law, but now by faith in Christ to all who will believe.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus was made the fulfillment of Gods righteousness of the law as He is now our righteousness through faith as we are made righteous through the blood of Christ who has redeemed us from the curse of the law. Notice in vs. 18 that not all the law has been fulfilled yet as we are still under the moral laws Jesus gave to His Church in Matthew 18:15-20; 1 Corinthians Chapters 6-10 and James Chapters 4 and 5. All the law will be fulfilled when Christ returns and we are with Him forever.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.
 
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