Is the Law of God dead? And if yes, how?

[for_his_glory]

The laws written upon our heart are the laws we still follow within the greatest being love and the second love you neighbor as you love yourself.

blockislandtimes.com - The New Covenant

The New Covenant
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


The new covenant that God promised through Jeremiah involves three things.

1. God's law becomes internal.
In the end, it didn't work for God to give people His law written on tablets of stone, because their hearts were still of stone. The law remained external to them, never fully internalized as basic principle's for living. Even when they did obey, they were like people obeying the speed limit just to avoid getting a speeding ticket, not people who instinctively drive at the limit because they know it is the safest thing to do. God says "I'm going to change that. I'll put my law inside them. I will write it with my own finger on their hearts.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


2. We have direct knowledge of God
Here is what the Lord said to Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
The Hebrew word for "know" here is the same word used in "Adam knew Eve his wife and she conceived." It means an intimate personal knowledge that is only possible when two persons are commited to one another. With God, to know Him is to love Him and be obedient to His commands and statures as they are not burdensome as they are written upon our heart internally. If we truly know God then we will do His will as it is in heaven, so be here on earth. To know God it comes through knowing the Bible (God's written word), through Spiritual experience and through faith. To know Him is to obey Him.

3. We are forgiven
In the new covenant God said, "I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." God does not forget His promises or His lost sheep, or His laws. The only thing God forgets is our sins. In the new covenant you can be forgiven and the relationship can be restored. First we receive forgiveness of sins. Then we experience direct knowledge of God. Then His Spirit changes us internally as He writes His laws upon our heart.

I don't suppose Jeremiah had any idea that his vision of the new covenant would one day refer to a crucified Messiah. But, when Jesus died on the cross He sealed the new covenant by His blood between God and you, offering you forgiveness, direct knowledge of God, and a new nature that is to obey God. This new covenant is for all who will come to Him with a humbled heart and God will forgive them.

 

[jaybo]

i never imply anything - if you read who the new covenant was made with and know you are grafted in then that is wonderful

it was a clear word from God about the new covenant - do you also see that He never said He was replacing His Holy Laws with grace? - He said that His Holy Laws would continue and everyone would have a new ability? - do you see what that is?

It is very interesting that you quote from the Old Testament only to explain the New Covenant!

This is what my Bible clearly says: "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the Law but under grace" Romans 6:14

"This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" Galatians 3:2-3

"For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by [t]them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." Galatians 3:10-14

All from the New Testament!

I will not discuss this with you any longer. I know exactly what the Bible says regarding law and faith: they are mutually incompatible. I live under the New Covenant.

 

[Hopeful]

i would word it differently - the flesh didn't work in either era - the Spirit works in both - faith and grace was just as much a part of both eras - even paul said it worked for him his whole life - Philippians 3:6

The "righteousness of the Law" came by sacrificing animals to atone for their never ending-ongoing sin.
As they could not walk in the Spirit, God graciously allowed animal sacrifice for sin.
That is no longer good enough.
We have something better than they had.
To return to the "lesser" negates the "better".

so that is what i am saying - in one place paul says one thing and in another he seems to contradict either himself or God - God would not have allowed paul to contradict Him so it must be that paul is talking about something other than what it sounds - imo his entire message is saved by grace/faith - wisely live God's words by the Spirit because the flesh can't ever succeed - never did - never will

Why return to any of it, besides the big 9 which are written in our hearts?

 

[jaybo]

The "righteousness of the Law" came by sacrificing animals to atone for their never ending-ongoing sin.
As they could not walk in the Spirit, God graciously allowed animal sacrifice for sin.
That is no longer good enough.
We have something better than they had.
To return to the "lesser" negates the "better".

Why return to any of it, besides the big 9 which are written in our hearts?

What are the big 9?

 

[Hopeful]

so that is what i am saying - in one place paul says one thing and in another he seems to contradict either himself or God

You will need to supply both sides of the aforementioned contradiction.

- God would not have allowed paul to contradict Him so it must be that paul is talking about something other than what it sounds - imo his entire message is saved by grace/faith - wisely live God's words by the Spirit because the flesh can't ever succeed - never did - never will

The Law was intended to show us how bad we were. It was successful.
It is no longer necessary for those who have turned in repentance unto Christ.
The Law's intent was accomplished.
It is pointless to return to it.

 

[Hopeful]

keeping the law was never required for salvation - no scripture anywhere says that - that is a misunderstanding

I think several hundred thousand Jews who didn't inherit the promised land may argue the point.

- and since you only trust paul even over God

Trust?
Maybe see the wisdoms from either an OT or NT perspective.

Truthfrees:
then i would have to say it is a misunderstanding of paul - you are the one that said Jesus is ot and so paul's words trump Jesus' words
Paul's words pertain to those of the NT.
Jesus words may or may not pertain to NT believers.

Truthfrees:
the new covenant happens to include all God's laws -
We don't agree.

Truthfrees:
the difference now is God indwells so keeping the law is easy by God's power - check out the wording of the new covenant - see who the covenant was made with and what it entailed - see how it ADDED something awesome and did not take away anything.
Keeping 613 laws that I am dead to and not necessary for salvation is problematic... so are optional in life.
Just like what kind of car do you drive? Where do you shop? Who do you visit? Do you mix linen with wool?
It matters not...for salvation.

 

[Hopeful]

show me where God said keep this law to be saved? - you won't find it - God didn't say it -

Then why are you so in favor of re-adopting them?

as far as circumcision then there are times it is ok to do it to an uncircumsized person?

Paul thought it necessary, and that right after the summit at Jerusalem that said it wasn't necessary.
But only necessary for Timothy to enter into the synagogues to preach with Paul.
The folks thereabouts all knew he was the son of a Greek, so would not have been heeded otherwise. (Acts 16:1-3)

- show me where paul taught it was ok? - see what i'm saying - what is said and what is done are 2 different things - meaning either paul is a hypocrite or what people think he is saying is not what he is really saying

Answered above.

uncircumsized men and greeks and women could enter a synagogue - they could not enter the temple - they had to stay in the outer court

Would they be allowed to teach in the synagogues?

 

[Hopeful]

What are the big 9?

They are the ten commandments given to Moses on the mount, minus the Sabbath day restrictions. (Exod 20:1-17)
Every day is the Lord's day, for the reborn.

 

[Hopeful]

it was a clear word from God about the new covenant - do you also see that He never said He was replacing His Holy Laws with grace? - He said that His Holy Laws would continue and everyone would have a new ability? - do you see what that is?

Where did He say that?

 

[jaybo]

i never imply anything - if you read who the new covenant was made with and know you are grafted in then that is wonderful

it was a clear word from God about the new covenant - do you also see that He never said He was replacing His Holy Laws with grace? - He said that His Holy Laws would continue and everyone would have a new ability? - do you see what that is?

No I do not also see that He never said He was replacing His Holy Laws with grace?

"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

"For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." Galatians 3:10-14

 

[jaybo]

They are the ten commandments given to Moses on the mount, minus the Sabbath day restrictions. (Exod 20:1-17)
Every day is the Lord's day, for the reborn.

If you remove the Sabbath day restrictions, what other parts of God's law are you removing? If you follow the OT law you must follow all of it. Who are you to overrule God?

Exodus 20:8-11, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. For six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

 

[for_his_glory]

Please, would someone explain what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-20 as I know Christ has not returned fulfilling all the laws.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Hopeful]

If you remove the Sabbath day restrictions, what other parts of God's law are you removing? If you follow the OT law you must follow all of it. Who are you to overrule God?

Exodus 20:8-11, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. For six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

The nine commandments are written in my heart.
To be a Christian one must not go against his new divine nature.
Wearing blue, dietary restrictions, one day a week worship, feast keeping, and a long list of other things will neither make us better or worse.
I am to love God with all our strength, and my neighbor as myself.
I can not accomplish either of those things by abstaining from bacon or wearing blue.

 

[Hopeful]

Please, would someone explain what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-20 as I know Christ has not returned fulfilling all the laws.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Christ fulfilled all the Law and prophets by His life, death, and resurrection.
Those baptized into Jesus Christ and into Christ's death are more holy that any scribe or Pharisee who walked in the flesh.
Christians are reborn of God's seed, and God's seed doesn't produce evil fruit.

 

[smaller]

I, like Jesus, am tempted.

Well, at least we got to a point of basic honesty

I view temptation as being:
A. of the tempter
B. being lawless thoughts

As such my relationship with God is not a one sided affair, understanding the above also puts my flesh in His Crosshairs

Get it?

The simplicity of God's Words is that He is always for the good

and, simultaneously

Always against the bad

Whenever we think we are only good, I would consider that a basic deception of the tempter transpiring in his victims via spiritual blindness

Everyone does both good and evil. There is no wiggle room on this matter, to me

So, if God is for us, He Is,

then

God is also simultaneously against the tempter, his thoughts, words and actions

The law therefore is my ALLY in these matters, at a minimum, alerting me to the reality of my internal construction, that being good and evil

And even the good claim can be a little iffy, in light of the fact that technically speaking any good we do is also marred by evil, simultaneously, just as Paul notes extensively in Romans 7, applied personally to himself and the "no longer I", the evil present with him, which I clearly can see as temptations of the tempter

Short version, Paul was not just Paul, not is anyone else in the eyes of scripture only a person

Scripture sees us as Jesus noted, with The Eyes of Mark 4:15

 

[Truthfrees]

No I do not also see that He never said He was replacing His Holy Laws with grace?

"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

"For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." Galatians 3:10-14

if you keep insisting on paul trumps God rather than the other way around you will not see what paul is really saying - the next thing anti-bomians need to understand is Acts 21 - there are approximately 5 principles in the nt that will straighten out your understanding of paul

 

[Truthfrees]

Where did He say that?

where God saya " i will make a new covenant with ......." - 2 places in the bible

 

[Truthfrees]

Then why are you so in favor of re-adopting them?

Paul thought it necessary, and that right after the summit at Jerusalem that said it wasn't necessary.
But only necessary for Timothy to enter into the synagogues to preach with Paul.
The folks thereabouts all knew he was the son of a Greek, so would not have been heeded otherwise. (Acts 16:1-3)

Answered above.

Would they be allowed to teach in the synagogues?

read what God says about the new covenant - He said the law remains and something new is given to everyone

your example show paul breaking his own rule as per your understanding

 

[Truthfrees]

You will need to supply both sides of the aforementioned contradiction.


The Law was intended to show us how bad we were. It was successful.
It is no longer necessary for those who have turned in repentance unto Christ.
The Law's intent was accomplished.
It is pointless to return to it.

God said continues in the new covenant - read HIS word about the new covenant H e would make

 

[Truthfrees]

The "righteousness of the Law" came by sacrificing animals to atone for their never ending-ongoing sin.
As they could not walk in the Spirit, God graciously allowed animal sacrifice for sin.
That is no longer good enough.
We have something better than they had.
To return to the "lesser" negates the "better".

Why return to any of it, besides the big 9 which are written in our hearts?

God said what the new covenant would be - if you read only paul's words i guess you can do that - Matthew 4:4 to me says God has all the say so - meaning that what paul said will have to agree with God - not your anti-nomian misunderstanding