Is the Law of God dead? And if yes, how?

[Rollo Tamasi]

it is not a sin - it is unwise - Matthew 5:19

God didn't say anything about travel - that is manmade - you haven't read God's laws so you can't tell man's laws from God's

The circumcision itself must be performed by a Mohel, a pious, observant Jew educated in circumcision techniques as well as in the relevant Jewish law and tradition. Circumcision performed by any other individual does not qualify as valid regardless of whether a rabbi is presiding over it. This is because the removal of the foreskin is itself a religious ritual that must be performed by someone religiously qualified.

This is hardly anything a Christian would do.
Thus, no law is broken.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

i'm not - but you are misunderstanding paul's message - which is fine - it makes no difference to me - i am happy - you are happy i hope - so continue as you are

what you do doesn't bother me - you can live how ever you wish - but it seems to bother you how i live - why? - because i have proven by my lifestyle that what you think paul says is impossible is actually easily possible? - i don't get tempted to sin by God's holy laws - i am living God's laws by His Spirit/faith/grace - sin was in the world before the law as per the flood - i believe paul confirms God - you believe Jesus was ot

Very confusing post.
Do you really know what you are saying?

 

[Hopeful]

Who (sic) do you only say the "big nine"

I base my count on the ten commandments given to Moses on the mount.

The only thing Jesus has fulfilled is the righteousness of the laws fulfilling that of the Temple and it's sacrifices.

Our opinions differ.

 

[Hopeful]

good for you - you don't understand witchcraft either - or the sins that causes canaan to be eradicated - which is fine - when you see what kinds' of atrocities are committed in the names of these pagan religions and you stand in God's face and call Him an evil doer the blood of the victims of these vile practices will cry out against you - look Hopeful you either stand with God or against Him - if you don't like something He says you need to talk to God - all of us have to do that avout all the things that seem wrong to us - everytime i questioned God He alsways showed me why He did or said what He did - your fight isn't with me - it's with God

Would you have said that to Jesus when He allowed the adulteress go free?

 

[smaller]

I have never denied that I have been or am being tempted.
It is part of life, and the devil's only way to get one off the narrow path.

If you've seen that much then you've seen correctly, the unseen, which is somewhat critical if we are to live our lives in honesty

It also makes life much more interesting. You have to sit up and pay attention to what is really going on

 

[jaybo]

Would you have said that to Jesus when He allowed the adulteress go free?

That story about "the adulteress" is a later addition to the NT. It is not found in the earliest manuscripts.

 

[Hopeful]

If you've seen that much then you've seen correctly, the unseen, which is somewhat critical if we are to live our lives in honesty

It also makes life much more interesting. You have to sit up and pay attention to what is really going on

If we "live our lives in honesty", there is no room for devilish actions.

 

[Hopeful]

That story about "the adulteress" is a later addition to the NT. It is not found in the earliest manuscripts.

As that has nothing to do with the conversation, I will ask you...Would you "stand in God's face and call Him an evil doer" because He "broke the Law" by letting the adulteress get away without being stoned?

We are dead to the Law, (besides the big 9 which are written in our hearts), so it has no bearing on our NT lives.
Jesus showed that in His ministry, with that adulteress.

 

[Hopeful]

I have two choices: continue in my struggle or agree with you... (Truthfrees) Should I choose God's written message to humanity or your personal interpretation? Guess which one I'll choose!

I hope you choose God's message to humanity.
But choose the one aimed at NT believers, given by God to Paul, Peter, John, and James.
Not to the message given to the OT Jews who still walked in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.

 

[for_his_glory]

I base my count on the ten commandments given to Moses on the mount.

Our opinions differ.

But you only said nine, not ten?

 

[Hopeful]

But you only said nine, not ten?

Yes, as everyday is the "Lord's day" and everyday is "kept holy" by NT believers.
We don't need to set aside a special day in observance of God.

 

[Truthfrees]

Who do you only say the "big nine" as there were seven to begin with given to Adam before the flood and to Noah after the flood. As the generations grew so was the need for more laws as men continued to transgress the laws of God until there ended up being 613 laws. Beginning with Genesis 2:16 the Babylonian Talmud listed seven commandments given first to Adam and then again to Noah after the flood. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

There are laws (commandments) of God within the 613 that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite.
​

Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) are what are written upon our heart in how we obey them through the greatest commandment of love and the second greatest how we treat others
​

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

​

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The only thing Jesus has fulfilled is the righteousness of the laws fulfilling that of the Temple and it's sacrifices.

​

that's a reasonable assessment - i would add that celebrating the festivals is a profound spiritual experience especially when every festival is a foretelling and past telling of several events - rabbi jonathan cahn does a good job of listing all the things that have come and will come - and they all happen on feast days - and everything correlates profoundly

not sure what you mean by torah - but paul as an apostle to the gentiles and the other apostles to the jews - there is a noticeable lack of torah teaching to the jews - presumably because they have heard torah since birth - and paul's letters are chock full of torah teaching - a crash course in torah if you will for those who have no knowledge of God's laws

every instruction paul gives in his letters as an apostle to the gentiles is a quote of torah - iow paul teaches nothing new that every jew has not been hearing since birth

Acts 21 also indicates that it is against God's law to be saved by circumcision - the noachide laws were already established by God to noah and had been used by jews as the way to fellowship with gentiles who loved God - but the statement was also made again in Acts 21 - the reason for this ruling they state is the law is heard every shabbat in every synagogue - jews actually already knew this but the statement was to say that if gentiles went to synagogue every shabbat they could hear God's laws for themselves and when they wanted to do some of the things in torah it would be of free will and not under force/threat -

so prior to Acts 21 this was the case - but then all of a sudden some men from james started trying to force circumcision for salvation - never before done or heard of - so why did these guys try to force it? - they were adding man-made rules to God's rules - sounded good to them i guess but it was against God's commands - so the counsel of Acts 13 apostles prophets teachers evangelists pastors met in Acts 21 to officially agree to NOT implement this new manmade law and throw it out forever from being a part of the sect of judaism called THE WAY - and to stop anyone from harassing gentiles in the future

 

[jaybo]

As that has nothing to do with the conversation, I will ask you...Would you "stand in God's face and call Him an evil doer" because He "broke the Law" by letting the adulteress get away without being stoned?

We are dead to the Law, (besides the big 9 which are written in our hearts), so it has no bearing on our NT lives.
Jesus showed that in His ministry, with that adulteress.

As you said, that has nothing to do with the conversation. So I will not continue the conversation with you except to repeat what I wrote earlier: the story of the woman caught in adultery is a later addition to the earliest NT manuscripts. If you build some sort of doctrine about that story it's on shaky ground.

Back on topic...

You wrote "We are dead to the Law, (besides the big 9 which are written in our hearts)". Dead to the law or not? Some of the law, but not "the big 9"? That makes no sense. If you build some sort of doctrine about that it's also on shaky ground.

Sola scriptura.

 

[Hopeful]

As you said, that has nothing to do with the conversation. So I will not continue the conversation with you except to repeat what I wrote earlier: the story of the woman caught in adultery is a later addition to the earliest NT manuscripts. If you build some sort of doctrine about that story it's on shaky ground.

Back on topic...

You wrote "We are dead to the Law, (besides the big 9 which are written in our hearts)". Dead to the law or not? Some of the law, but not "the big 9"? That makes no sense. If you build some sort of doctrine about that it's also on shaky ground.

Sola scriptura.

Stoning witches and adulterers, among other things, isn't written on the hearts of those who have been commanded to love God with all their strength and love their neighbors as themselves.

 

[jaybo]

Stoning witches and adulterers, among other things, isn't written on the hearts of those who have been commanded to love God with all their strength and love their neighbors as themselves.

Neither is shooting someone with a pistol. What are you trying to say?

 

[for_his_glory]

that's a reasonable assessment - i would add that celebrating the festivals is a profound spiritual experience especially when every festival is a foretelling and past telling of several events - rabbi jonathan cahn does a good job of listing all the things that have come and will come - and they all happen on feast days - and everything correlates profoundly

not sure what you mean by torah - but paul as an apostle to the gentiles and the other apostles to the jews - there is a noticeable lack of torah teaching to the jews - presumably because they have heard torah since birth - and paul's letters are chock full of torah teaching - a crash course in torah if you will for those who have no knowledge of God's laws

every instruction paul gives in his letters as an apostle to the gentiles is a quote of torah - iow paul teaches nothing new that every jew has not been hearing since birth

Acts 21 also indicates that it is against God's law to be saved by circumcision - the noachide laws were already established by God to noah and had been used by jews as the way to fellowship with gentiles who loved God - but the statement was also made again in Acts 21 - the reason for this ruling they state is the law is heard every shabbat in every synagogue - jews actually already knew this but the statement was to say that if gentiles went to synagogue every shabbat they could hear God's laws for themselves and when they wanted to do some of the things in torah it would be of free will and not under force/threat -

so prior to Acts 21 this was the case - but then all of a sudden some men from james started trying to force circumcision for salvation - never before done or heard of - so why did these guys try to force it? - they were adding man-made rules to God's rules - sounded good to them i guess but it was against God's commands - so the counsel of Acts 13 apostles prophets teachers evangelists pastors met in Acts 21 to officially agree to NOT implement this new manmade law and throw it out forever from being a part of the sect of judaism called THE WAY - and to stop anyone from harassing gentiles in the future

When I read through the 613 laws I you can see what ones were specifically for the Israelites and then the existing ones that are yet on this side of grace covenant that are written upon our heart by being obedient to the greatest and the second greatest commandment of love, Matthew 22:36-40, in how we are to love and treat others by that grace and mercy God has given to us.

Here are the Torah laws. To learn more about the Torah or all 613 laws go to 613 laws

Torah.
13. To cleave to those who know Him (Deut. 10:20) (the Talmud states that cleaving to scholars is equivalent to cleaving to Him) (CCA16).
14. Not to add to the commandments of the Torah, whether in the Written Law or in its interpretation received by tradition (Deut. 13:1) (CCN159). See Torah.
15. Not to take away from the commandments of the Torah (Deut. 13:1) (CCN160). See Torah.
16. That every person shall write a scroll of the Torah for himself (Deut. 31:19) (CCA15). See Torah.

Once again I will reiterate what Jesus has already said:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

If anyone wants to read where the moral laws are written in scripture go to that website I posted, click on Deeds and you will find every scripture where they are listed that we are still to be obedient too.

 

[jaybo]

When I read through the 613 laws I you can see what ones were specifically for the Israelites and then the existing ones that are yet on this side of grace covenant that are written upon our heart by being obedient to the greatest and the second greatest commandment of love, Matthew 22:36-40, in how we are to love and treat others by that grace and mercy God has given to us.

Here are the Torah laws. To learn more about the Torah or all 613 laws go to 613 laws

Torah.
13. To cleave to those who know Him (Deut. 10:20) (the Talmud states that cleaving to scholars is equivalent to cleaving to Him) (CCA16).
14. Not to add to the commandments of the Torah, whether in the Written Law or in its interpretation received by tradition (Deut. 13:1) (CCN159). See Torah.
15. Not to take away from the commandments of the Torah (Deut. 13:1) (CCN160). See Torah.
16. That every person shall write a scroll of the Torah for himself (Deut. 31:19) (CCA15). See Torah.

Once again I will reiterate what Jesus has already said:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

If anyone wants to read where the moral laws are written in scripture go to that website I posted, click on Deeds and you will find every scripture where they are listed that we are still to be obedient too.

So what do you think "till all be fulfilled" means? Perhaps Jesus' crucifixion?

As a matter of interest, this was written to the Jews, who were under the law.

 

[for_his_glory]

So what do you think "till all be fulfilled" means? Perhaps Jesus' crucifixion?

As a matter of interest, this was written to the Jews, who were under the law.

Has Jesus returned yet, no, so all things are not yet fulfilled within what the Prophets wrote and the laws we are still to abide in until Christ returns.

What Jesus taught on this side of the new covenant in the NT, for which NT stands for, is for all of faith in Christ, Galatians 3:26-29.

 

[Hopeful]

Neither is shooting someone with a pistol. What are you trying to say?

Shooting or killing someone with stones is not showing the love in our hearts.

 

[Hopeful]

Has Jesus returned yet, no, so all things are not yet fulfilled within what the Prophets wrote and the laws we are still to abide in until Christ returns.

It was written..."For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matt 5:18)
Nothing has passed from the Law.
The Law is still there for the OT Jews.
NT Christians are just dead to the Law.

What Jesus taught on this side of the new covenant in the NT, for which NT stands for, is for all of faith in Christ, Galatians 3:26-29.