Is the Law of God dead? And if yes, how?

[Hopeful]

It's more like "if you had been freed from prison, would you fight for justice?"

That is kind of a derail.

I agree that it is good if one realizes the value of studying from whence our religion came from, but the practicing of those ways was precluded by my death to them.

On that we are agreed.
Just as the woman is freed from the law concerning her husband...by his death, we have been freed from the Law of Moses by our deaths with Christ.

 

[Truthfrees]

It's more like "if you had been freed from prison, would you fight for justice?" I agree that it is good if one realizes the value of studying from whence our religion came from, but the practicing of those ways was precluded by my death to them.

amen - Romans 7:6 is talking about the law of sin and death
Romans 7 is contrasting the law of God with the law of sin and death - the law of God is pure holy righteous perfect life
the law of sin and death is about those who walk in the flesh - walking in the flesh causes death whenever someone hears God's holy laws

Romans 7:25 declares the power of serving the law of God and the death of serving the law of flesh/sin

a person really needs to read all of Romans 7 from start to finish slowly looking for the 2 kinds of laws paul is talking about to see the point you are trying to make

God bless you

 

[Hopeful]

amen - Romans 7:6 is talking about the law of sin and death
Romans 7 is contrasting the law of God with the law of sin and death - the law of God is pure holy righteous perfect life
the law of sin and death is about those who walk in the flesh - walking in the flesh causes death whenever someone hears God's holy laws

Romans 7:25 declares the power of serving the law of God and the death of serving the law of flesh/sin

a person really needs to read all of Romans 7 from start to finish slowly looking for the 2 kinds of laws paul is talking about to see the point you are trying to make

God bless you

Rom 7:6..."But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
What do you think is the "oldness of the letter" Paul is talking about?

 

[Truthfrees]

If you had been freed from prison, would you go back for visits?
I do realize the value of studying from whence our religion came from, but the practicing of those ways was precluded by my death to them.
It is written..."But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Rom 7:6)

the prison is not the holy perfect laws of God - it is the law of sin and death that brings death to people who are walking in the flesh rather than the Spirit when they hear God's holy perfect laws

the answer is not throw out God's holy laws - the answer is walk in the Spirit so you do not fulfil the lusts of the flesh and end up in the prison of the law of sin and death every time you hear God's holy perfect laws

 

[Truthfrees]

Rom 7:6..."But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
What do you think is the "oldness of the letter" Paul is talking about?

read the entire chapter 7 slowly - if you can't see the abab comparison of the holy laws of God vs the law of sin and death (aka walking in the flesh) as clearly defined in Romans 7:25 then i will ask God what more i can say - right now it looks really clear that Romans 7:25 is the conclusion of the entire 7th chapter message

God bless you and the message you speak on the walking in the Spirit vs walking in the flesh

 

[Truthfrees]

Rom 7:6..."But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
What do you think is the "oldness of the letter" Paul is talking about?

trying to walk in the flesh (the letter aka outer appearance) rather than walking in the Spirit (the life/heart intent/the power of God living inherently in EVERY word that proceeds out of the mouth of God)

God never uttered a throw away word in His life aka all of eternity

the words that come out of God's mouth will never pass away

the power of God and the newness of life via the Spirit is the difference between the letter vs the LIFE

 

[Hopeful]

read the entire chapter 7 slowly - if you can't see the abab comparison of the holy laws of God vs the law of sin and death (aka walking in the flesh) as clearly defined in Romans 7:25 then i will ask God what more i can say - right now it looks really clear that Romans 7:25 is the conclusion of the entire 7th chapter message

God bless you and the message you speak on the walking in the Spirit vs walking in the flesh

Do Christians walk in the flesh or in the Spirit?
The Spirit.
The Law is for those who walk in the flesh.
Reading Rom 7:5, "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the Law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."...the motions of sin were "by the Law".
So, no Law results in no sin..."...for by the Law is the knowledge of sin." (Rom 3:20)
Being delivered now from the Law, (Rom 7:6), by the body of Christ, it has no more bearing on the lives of those who walk in the Spirit. For it was given to us, from God, to show men how really bad sin was.
It has had its desired effect, and been eclipsed by "the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus". (Rom 8:2)

If you desire to forsake that deliverance, and to walk under the Law, be prepared to answer for the sin when you find you have to do some kind of lifting, cooking, driving, or carrying on the Sabbath.
To adhere to a Law necessitates adhering to its punishments too.

 

[Truthfrees]

"For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the Law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."...the motions of sin were "by the Law".

no - by those walking in the flesh - it says flesh - anyone who walks in the flesh - the motions of sin were by the flesh

if those people were in the Spirit there would have been no sin death condemnation - nothing but LIFE via the law of the Spirit of LIFE

 

[Truthfrees]

Do Christians walk in the flesh or in the Spirit?
The Spirit.
The Law is for those who walk in the flesh.
Reading Rom 7:5, "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the Law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."...the motions of sin were "by the Law".
So, no Law results in no sin..."...for by the Law is the knowledge of sin." (Rom 3:20)
Being delivered now from the Law, (Rom 7:6), by the body of Christ, it has no more bearing on the lives of those who walk in the Spirit. For it was given to us, from God, to show men how really bad sin was.
It has had its desired effect, and been eclipsed by "the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus". (Rom 8:2)

If you desire to forsake that deliverance, and to walk under the Law, be prepared to answer for the sin when you find you have to do some kind of lifting, cooking, driving, or carrying on the Sabbath.
To adhere to a Law necessitates adhering to its punishments too.

not at all - walking in the Spirit makes all things possible

GOD SAYS: with man this is impossible - with God all things are possible - apart from ME you can do nothing - man lives by EVERY word that comes from the mouth of God - do we nullify the law? no we establish it - anyone who breaks God's laws and teaches others to do so is the least in the kingdom of God - etc

Spirit vs flesh is throughout the entire bible -

 

[Hopeful]

trying to walk in the flesh (the letter aka outer appearance) rather than walking in the Spirit (the life/heart intent/the power of God living inherently in EVERY word that proceeds out of the mouth of God)

The "oldness of the letter" was the "letter of the Law".

God never uttered a throw away word in His life aka all of eternity

He has, however, changed His mind about a few things.
Like the destruction of the world before having mercy on Noah and his family.
And Nineveh.

the words that come out of God's mouth will never pass away
the power of God and the newness of life via the Spirit is the difference between the letter vs the LIFE

They may never pass away, but they may no longer apply at some time.
Do you feel that you can adhere to all 400(?) aspects of the Law of Moses?
If you adopt one facet, you adopt all of them.

It is written..."Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second." (Heb 10:8-9)

It is written..." This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal 3:2-3)

It is written..."For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith." (Gal 3:10-11)

 

[Hopeful]

not at all - walking in the Spirit makes all things possible

with man this is impossible - with God all things are possible - apart from ME you can do nothing - man lives by EVERY word that comes from the mouth of God - do we nullify the law? no we establish it - etc

Spirit vs flesh is throughout the entire bible -

And the Law was for those in the flesh.

 

[Hopeful]

no - by those walking in the flesh - it says flesh - anyone who walks in the flesh - the motions of sin were by the flesh

You are rewording the scripture...It is written..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

if those people were in the Spirit there would have been no sin death condemnation - nothing but LIFE via the law of the Spirit of LIFE

Choose which one you will walk in.
The Spirit or the flesh.

 

[Truthfrees]

And the Law was for those in the flesh.

then so too is love God and love your neighbor

no - God's words are life

 

[Hopeful]

then so too is love God and love your neighbor

no - God's words are life

Are you prepared to walk in all the tenets of the Law?
Won't it be a sin to just forget about the other 398 Laws?
Temple worship and sacrificial animals? Tithing? Feast keeping? Kosher foods?
Priesthood?
Circumcision?

It is written..."But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Rom 7:6)
I have been delivered from the Law.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi guys, greetings and blessings to all.
I wish to ask the vital question Is God’s Law dead/redundant now? I will rephrase

Is the Law now irrelevant to the Christian, now that he/she is under “ grace” (a word Jesus never uttered or taught)?

Before you answer, please take the following into consideration because God is very sensitive about His eternal, perennial, and imperishable Law. We must remember what happened to the Jews who chose to disobey the Law and commandments of God written by His own finger and handed over to Israelites via Moses ( Deuteronomy 9:10) and this very Law which was written by Father Gods finger was placed on the 2 tablets of MIND and HEARTS of every human ( Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 10:16)
The disobedience of Law led to widespread devastation of the Israelites and the destruction and plunder of God’s own temple. The havoc was wrought by Father God due to the disobedience/ sin of the Israelites – to the extent that they had to eat their own flesh and flesh of each other and the flesh of their children. Jeremiah 19:7-10, Deuteronomy 28:52-57 etc.
Father God's given Law is Eternal, Perennial, magnificent says teh Bible ( Psalms 119, psalms 19:9-11, Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 16:17, Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 10:16 etc.)

Yet Paul says the eternal, imperishable Law of God lies written on human hearts and minds by none other than the Finger of Father God Himself "was nailed to the cross" ( check Colossians 2:14). I consider this a most audacious attack on the eternal Law of God ( which lies etched on our minds and hearts at this very moment) , and we can imagine the utter Fury of Father God for destroying/crucifying His eternal, imperishable Law.

Jesus warns ( I paraphrase) the whole universe can crash burn and disappear -- but the Law of God cannot simply go. Not even the least bit! ( Matthew 5:17-18) and repeats again in Luke 16:17 for good measure. Did you know friends nobody in the Universe dare touch Gods eternal imperishable Law which is there forever and ever? Not even the Son , our Lord Jesus can touch it and He didn’t. The obedient-to-death Son upheld the Law and warned it just can never go. ( although He did teach us HOW to obey the entire Law and the teachings of the Prophets –Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12, Luke 10:25-28—unfortunately this precious/vital teaching of Christ went disregarded/ ignored by an overwhelming majority of the Churches

The psalmist calls God’s Law Eternal, Just , Pure ( Psalm 19:9-11) lifegiving ( Psalm 19:7 and Psalm 119:93) and goes on to state “Blessed is the one whose delight is in the Law of the LORD, and on His law, they meditate day and night ( Psalms1:1-2)

Finally, David says this about the NATURE and structure of Law:

Psalm 119:44

I will always obey Your law, forever and ever



Psalm 119:160

The sum of Your word is truth [the full meaning of all Your precepts], And every one of Your righteous ordinances endures forever.

Unfortunately, the Forever/ eternal/magnificent/life-giving Law of God as declared by father God, the Son of God Christ Jesus, and David the man after God’s heart, now stands crucified to the cross, lying dead to the Christian, for he ( the Christian) has now been saved by “Grace”—a word ( I repeat ) Jesus never taught or even uttered from His mouth. I believe the Father God is in great fury at this very minute for His Law was destroyed by one man and the entire Churches not only believed this but taught it consistently ( and continue to teach even today)
For where there is no Law there is (literally) LAWLESSNESS and Jesus our Lord condemned such people who rejected God’s Law with the following words in Matthew 7:23 :
"But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’ ( NLT)

And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ ( Matthew 7:23)

In light of this due diligence placed above for your prudent consideration, I respectfully ask fellow brothers and sisters :

IS THE LAW OF GOD DEAD OR NOT?

If it’s indeed dead/gone/ irrelevant please provide verses which say so – other than Paul’s who I believed taught in DIRECT contradiction to above Verses of Father God, Christ the Son, and the Psalmist ( apart from other OT / NT writers ) I will appreciate scriptural references and edification rather than personal attacks. I will appreciate being explained how God’s Perennial Law stands dead now. And even if we elect to use Paul's words to do away with the Law of God, is it prudent on our part to place Paul's words above God and the Son and Psalmist's warnings about the Law? Especially since Jesus cautioned us in John 13:16 with these words:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." Paul's ( or anyone else's, save God's ) words/doctrine can never supersede/ exceed Jesus' is what I believe He is saying

Many thanks in advance
Look forward /\
A brother in Christ, and a humble servant of our Lord
---Raj

Hi Rajesh
You know that I agree with you about this.
Grace is very much misunderstood these days.
I often wonder how we got here...I believe it took a couple of hundred years to evolve to the faith only/only grace belief, which is not biblical at all.
I believe Matthew chapters 5 and 7 teach us pretty much what we need to know.

Faith only is a dangerous teaching that will lead many to the wide road since God has always demanded obedience from us.

 

[jaybo]

As I wrote earlier, it isn't dead...but we are dead to it.
As it is written..."Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God...
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Rom 7:4-6)

Our deaths with Christ have made us free from the Law.

Agreed.

 

[jaybo]

Are you prepared to walk in all the tenets of the Law?
Won't it be a sin to just forget about the other 398 Laws?
Temple worship and sacrificial animals? Tithing? Feast keeping? Kosher foods?
Priesthood?
Circumcision?

It is written..."But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Rom 7:6)
I have been delivered from the Law.

As are all Christians who are born again by the Spirit. It's tragic that there is till some who can't or won't accept this basic fact.

 

[smaller]

Paul gave us all a very exacting Spiritual Transcription of every law or command in the entire Bible in Romans 13:8-10

IF anyone reads any law, and can't figure it out, they need lessons from the Holy Spirit

In any case, Paul essentially also guaranteed us that the evil present within no one is going to be following any law, no matter how it's written, Romans 7:21

 

[jaybo]

Rom 7:6..."But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
What do you think is the "oldness of the letter" Paul is talking about?

Here is Romans 7:6 from the NET 2.1 translation, "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."

So Paul was writing about the old written code, in effect before the Spirit was given.

This is a great example of why I use a modern translation. "... the oldness of the letter" is rarely, if ever, used in modern English. It's an example of outdated, confusing translation.

 

[Hopeful]

As are all Christians who are born again by the Spirit. It's tragic that there is till some who can't or won't accept this basic fact.

I hope you are not saying circumcision is necessary for salvation.