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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Bible Study Is the Rapture Doctrine a tool of deception?
- Thread starter HalleluYAH
- Start date
Drew
Member
The big deal is that Paul writes about this creation - the one you and I are sitting in - being liberated from bondage to decay. That sounds very much the beginnings of a restoration project, not a project that will end up with God destroying the very creation that has been liberated from bondage to decay at the cost of Jesus's blood.
Consider this text from Isaiah 55:13 [NASB]
13"Instead of the thorn bush the cypress will come up,
And instead of the nettle the myrtle will come up,
And it will be a memorial to the Lord,
For an everlasting sign which will not be cut off."
This has a strong "reversal of the fall" flavor to it, I suggest.
Drew
Member
Two things:
1. Are you suggesting that Hell is located at the centre of our planet?
2. The fact that the language of melting elements is used does not require us to take stuff literally - I believe that it's a colorful way of expressing the radical transformation that the earth will undergo.
Regarding point 2: I know a lot of people around here are skeptical about the use of metaphorical language. But I am prepared to show from the Old Testament that this kind of spectacular "cosmic meltdown" language is generally used in a clearly metaphorical way. The problem is that people come to their Bible not knowing this and believe things like the stars will fall to earth and the moon will melt, or whatever. But if you actually study the Old Testament, not to mention the cultural practices of the time, it is really quite clear that this language is metaphorical.
dianegcook
Member
To drew and job
Hi
I believe that "in the air" means spirit.
Air, strong's #109 greek means, to breathe, breath
Hi
I believe that "in the air" means spirit.
Air, strong's #109 greek means, to breathe, breath
Drew
Member
Thanks for the input. Are you saying that you identified the phrase as rendered in the original Greek? Things are getting more complicated, but that's ok.
dianegcook
Member
To drew and jlb
Hi
I believe that "in the air" means spirit.
Air, strong's #109 and #55994, greek ,
means, to breathe, breath, the breath of life ,Spirit.
We shall meet them in the spiritual dimension.
Clouds can also mean, witnesses,
Heb. 12:1
A cloud of witnesses.
Others in the spiritual.
Like a cloud of locusts.
I also do not believe in the pretrib rapture.
The saints do not get rewarded until the 7th trump, Satan comes at the 6th.
Rev.11:18
Good day
Hi
I believe that "in the air" means spirit.
Air, strong's #109 and #55994, greek ,
means, to breathe, breath, the breath of life ,Spirit.
We shall meet them in the spiritual dimension.
Clouds can also mean, witnesses,
Heb. 12:1
A cloud of witnesses.
Others in the spiritual.
Like a cloud of locusts.
I also do not believe in the pretrib rapture.
The saints do not get rewarded until the 7th trump, Satan comes at the 6th.
Rev.11:18
Good day
Sinthesis
Member
It is so nice to see someone using scripture to interpret scripture. Lamentations is about the fall and judgement of First Temple Era Israel. Clearly 'fall' is not about physical elevation but spiritual status, whereby 'heavenly' represents good and 'earthly' represents not so good. When we consider 'the fall' caused by original sin, nobody takes that expression as meaning a literal change in elevation.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
This is where we won't agree. I take scripture very literal. Jesus said nothing by any means shall hurt you, I believe that, and that means nothing can possibly every hurt me.
So if scripture says the elements of the earth will be melted, then they are getting melted, and it will be very colourful, but not how you think.
dianegcook
Member
Sorry drew having problems logging in, my post keep disappearing. Lol
Hope the 2nd one helped you out better.
Drew
Member
Well, this is yet another view on the meaning of this famous text; the more options put out for consideration the better, all other things being equal.
Sinthesis
Member
Psa 104:1 ¶ Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
Psa 104:2 - Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
Psa 104:3 - Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
Gen 46:29 - And Joseph made ready his chariot, and went up to meet Israel his father, to Goshen, and presented himself unto him; and he fell on his neck, and wept on his neck a good while.
Psa 104:2 - Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
Psa 104:3 - Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
Gen 46:29 - And Joseph made ready his chariot, and went up to meet Israel his father, to Goshen, and presented himself unto him; and he fell on his neck, and wept on his neck a good while.
Most Christians are willing to identify themselves as 'Israel', and some even recognize Joseph as a type for The LORD.
HalleluYAH
Member
Spot on answer!
B
Brother Mike
Guest
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(1Th 4:17)
nephelē Is the Greek word for cloud, always translated cloud. Female noun, needing the Article or Male noun following to identify. Can't mean Witness.
Aer has always been translated Air, not spirit. Spirit would be pneuma. And it's aēmi that means to breath, not Aer which describes the Atmosphere. You conveniently skipped the Strongs word "FROM" Aemi.
nephos a Neuter Noun was used once in Hebrews. A great Cloud of Witness, and does not mean Witnesses. Else it would be a Male noun.
Which just means your confused, changing the Word to what you want it to say.With total disregard for any of the Greek nouns and how they are used.
Spot on maybe, but a spot that needs cleaned and removed, that's for sure.
Always glad to be of help.
Mike.
You shall see is future tense, as this event won't happen UNTILL the end of the age, unless your John and are caught up to heaven and are given a view of the future.
JLB
ezrider
Member
I am not going to direct this at any one person posting in this thread, but there appears to be a certain sort of gleeful hope that the earth is consumed by a giant fireball, and everything will melt. But it seems to me that they have never understood the promises of God that do accompany His New Covenant in Christ. Now God made a covenant with Noah and the Earth where he made swore a promise, but that seems to be discounted. The Lord brought that promise in with the New Covenant as well, but that is disregarded as well. Why is that? Do you wish to Glory in destruction?
Have you forgotten the promises made with our father Abraham, when He pleaded with the Lord. Perhaps for fifty righteous, will you still destroyed it. No I will not. Perhaps forty, for forty righteous will you destroy it? No I will not.
Why should I worry about your destruction. That is not the covenant that I Live by, but hey, maybe if I can become the righteousness of God in Christ, by His Righteousness and through His Righteousness; well then peradventure there only be ten righteous, will then destroy it? No, for the sake of the ten I shall not destroy it.
What do you seek after. Destruction? Or Salvation?
Have you forgotten the promises made with our father Abraham, when He pleaded with the Lord. Perhaps for fifty righteous, will you still destroyed it. No I will not. Perhaps forty, for forty righteous will you destroy it? No I will not.
Why should I worry about your destruction. That is not the covenant that I Live by, but hey, maybe if I can become the righteousness of God in Christ, by His Righteousness and through His Righteousness; well then peradventure there only be ten righteous, will then destroy it? No, for the sake of the ten I shall not destroy it.
What do you seek after. Destruction? Or Salvation?
Sinthesis
Member
Vindictiveness is a seductive spirit, but, just like Abraham, we shouldn't glory in the judgement and destruction of others.
Luk 9:51 ¶ And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
Luk 9:52 - And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
Luk 9:53 - And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
Luk 9:54 - And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55 - But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56 - For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
Luk 9:52 - And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
Luk 9:53 - And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
Luk 9:54 - And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55 - But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56 - For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
dianegcook
Member
I have an exhaustive strongs sitting in front of me and it says#109 aer from aemi meaning to breathe , comp to #5594 psucho, primary verb, to breathe.
Gen.2:7
God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
I did not give you a Greek definition of cloud.
It could mean other things besides a white fluffy thing in the sky.
In 1Thess.4: it states meet, join, our deceased loved ones in the clouds.
They are coming with Christ to reign.
Mark 13:27
Gather His elect from the uttermost part of the earth and the UTTERMOST PART OF HEAVEN.
Rev.20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part of the first resurrection, but they shall be priests of GOD and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
No confusion here.
Good evening
dianegcook
Member
Fireball?
God is a consuming fire.Heb.12:29
All evil rudiments will be burnt up.
As the 3 in the furnace, the smell of smoke didn't even touch them.
God is a consuming fire.Heb.12:29
All evil rudiments will be burnt up.
As the 3 in the furnace, the smell of smoke didn't even touch them.