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is there a lake of fire ?

Butch5 said:
Why do you insist on taking a clear statement and trying to make it figurative? Jesus said the wicked would be cast into Gehenna. He didn't say a place like Gehenna or a place represented by Gehenna. He said they would be cast into Gehenna. What logical or hermeneutical reason would claim for using this figuratively?
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Is Gehenna literally big enough to contain all the wicked?
 
Butch5 said:
Why do you insist on taking a clear statement and trying to make it figurative? Jesus said the wicked would be cast into Gehenna. He didn't say a place like Gehenna or a place represented by Gehenna. He said they would be cast into Gehenna. What logical or hermeneutical reason would claim for using this figuratively?
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I've explained this more than enough of the literal and symbolic through out this thread and I am done as I have nothing more to add that I haven't already said. It's your choice to believe it is literal Gehenna if you like, but I believe it is only used as symbolic of the fires that burned there. That's all I can say.
 
The symbolic indignity is also important. The indignity of one being thrown onto a burning trash heap, or left to rot in the street, or hung up as a spectacle.
 
for_his_glory said:
I don't believe all commentaries, but Spiritually discern what they use for supportive scripture as I compare scripture with scripture and OT with NT. Then I go to Strong's Exhausted Concordance to look up the Hebrew and Greek meaning of words like hell and Gehenna. I know Gehenna is a real place with a real location as I have already explained that in post #59, but is symbolic of the lake of fire as a burning place of everlasting torment. Gehenna is not the lake of fire that John speaks of in Revelations as the lake of fire has no location other than being in outer darkness, Matthew 8:5-12; 22:1-14; 25:30; 2Peter 2:4, but death and hell will be thrown into it, Rev 20:13, as part of the second resurrection, Rev 20:6, so hell, (meaning the grave/pit according to Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell), is not the lake of fire either.
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Brother,

It's 'Strong's Exhaustive Concordance', not 'Strong's Exhausted Concordance'.
 
for_his_glory said:
I've been saying all along Jesus made reference to Gehenna in speaking of hell and hell fire where the worm never dies, but I have never seen in scripture where Jesus actually says the word Gehenna, but only hell and hell fire so can you show me the scripture where Jesus actually says Gehenna.
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FHG,

There are a number of Scriptures where Jesus uses Gehenna:

Matthew 5:22: But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna (hell).

Matthew 5:29: If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into Gehenna (hell).

Matthew 5:30: And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into Gehenna (hell).

Matthew 10:28: Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna (hell).

Matthew 18:9: And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of Gehenna (hell).

Matthew 23:15: “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of Gehenna (hell) as you are.

Matthew 23:33: “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to Gehenna (hell)?

Mark 9:43: If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into Gehenna (hell), where the fire never goes out.

Mark 9:45: And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into Gehenna (hell).

Mark 9:47: And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into Gehenna (hell),

Luke 12:5: But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into Gehenna (hell). Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Oz
 
Oz,
It all depends on what translation you read from as some say hell and some say Gehenna, but both words mean the same thing as being the grave. The garbage dumps that were outside the walls of Jerusalem was found in Gehenna were the fires never died as not only garbage was being burned, but also the bodies of those who were crucified to death for their crimes. This became their graves in a place called Gehenna. Gehenna/hell both mean the physical grave
 
The Lake of Fire might otherwise be seen as the Glory of the Lord.

The Lake of Fire that John saw in the Spirit is the same cloud of Fire that Moses saw descending upon Mt Sinai. The scriptures call the Lord a consuming fire. When the lake of fire descended upon Mt Sinai, the peoples feared to go up the mountain because they feared their death. Christ answered that death. But those who have rejected Christ will face the second death when the lake of fire appears.

When the lake of fire descended in a cloud upon Mt Sinai, the people of Faith who did not fear death, Moses, Joshua among others, they when up the mountain. But the rest who feared for their death, they did not go up to receive the Lord, they pledged rather to follow after a Man and the Law rather than follow after the Lord. When the Lake of Fire appears again and they face the second death, there will be no refusal, there will be no hiding from it.
 
ezrider said:
The Lake of Fire might otherwise be seen as the Glory of the Lord.

The Lake of Fire that John saw in the Spirit is the same cloud of Fire that Moses saw descending upon Mt Sinai. The scriptures call the Lord a consuming fire. When the lake of fire descended upon Mt Sinai, the peoples feared to go up the mountain because they feared their death. Christ answered that death. But those who have rejected Christ will face the second death when the lake of fire appears.

When the lake of fire descended in a cloud upon Mt Sinai, the people of Faith who did not fear death, Moses, Joshua among others, they when up the mountain. But the rest who feared for their death, they did not go up to receive the Lord, they pledged rather to follow after a Man and the Law rather than follow after the Lord. When the Lake of Fire appears again and they face the second death, there will be no refusal, there will be no hiding from it.
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Death as in physical death and hell meaning the grave that the dead are laid in is the second death as there will never be anymore death or a need for the grave after the dead small and great stand before God for final judgement.

Rev 20:
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
for_his_glory said:
Death as in physical death and hell meaning the grave that the dead are laid in is the second death as there will never be anymore death or a need for the grave after the dead small and great stand before God for final judgement.

Rev 20:
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
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What exactly are you addressing from my post? Nothing that I can see. What is your point?

Have you bothered to stop and consider that the Lake of Fire is the same Cloud of Fire that descended upon Mt Sinai?
 
thesaintman said:
say yes 10 times if that is true.
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The scriptures insure I can say once, no, to lead you away from the untruth.
Yeshua was a Jew. *AKA in Judaism, Emmanuel ben Joseph. (son of man = Emmanuel, "God with us", son of Joseph) The grave , removed from God's sight for all time, as we think of it, was Sheol. Jesus taught from the foundation of the Torah.
*SHEOL Jewish Encyclopedia entry

Jesus said,"You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life." (John 5:39,40).
 
ezrider said:
What exactly are you addressing from my post? Nothing that I can see. What is your point?

Have you bothered to stop and consider that the Lake of Fire is the same Cloud of Fire that descended upon Mt Sinai?
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That is what I am addressing!!!
 
for_his_glory said:
Death as in physical death and hell meaning the grave that the dead are laid in is the second death
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That's not what scripture says.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
 
for_his_glory said:
I was addressing what you said about the lake of fire being the same as the cloud of fire Moses saw. I was trying to explain they are not the same thing.
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I know that you do not believe they are the same. I asked if you had considered that they were they were the same? You could have just simply answered No, you have not nor are you willing to consider it.
 
for_his_glory said:
Oz,
It all depends on what translation you read from as some say hell and some say Gehenna, but both words mean the same thing as being the grave. The garbage dumps that were outside the walls of Jerusalem was found in Gehenna were the fires never died as not only garbage was being burned, but also the bodies of those who were crucified to death for their crimes. This became their graves in a place called Gehenna. Gehenna/hell both mean the physical grave
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For the NT, ALL translations are based on the Greek text. The meaning of Gehenna (no matter how it is translated in English) is not determined by the translation but by the etymology of the word and the culture in which it is used.

Gehenna, Hell Proper (by J Gibbons)

(1) Gehenna had its origin in association with the valley of Hinnom, actually meaning this. In the Old Testament times, when Israel went into idolatry, human sacrifices took place in this valley next to Jerusalem in the worship of Molech as they would “burn their sons and daughters in the fire” (2 Kings 23:10; 2 Chronicles 28:3; Jeremiah 7:31). The valley was looked upon as being polluted and unclean, and in New Testament times was used somewhat as a city dump with continual burning, we understand. It was with that backdrop the term gehenna was adopted and applied to the place of eternal punishment. Such is its coinage and use. This is hell in what the modern usage of the term “hell” conveys (from my article, Hell in the Bible).

See the careful research and differential of Sheol, Hades & Gehenna in Faith Defenders.​

Do you want me to quote from the largest word study volumes ever written on the meaning of Gehenna and most other NT words (in Kittel & Friedrich, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament - Eerdmans)?

Oz
 
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